IgorZ

[1.7.3] Kerbal Attachment System (KAS) v1.4 - NOT COMPATIBLE WITH KSP 1.7.0

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29 minutes ago, STHedgeHog said:

Hello IgorZ,

Firstly I ant to say thanks for keeping KAS alive, its a fantastic mod and definitely on my "Cant play without" list.

I have, however, found a small issue. The LV-1 "Ant" Liquid Fuel Engine, isn't recognized as a radial mount part. Whenever I try to attach it using the wrench it gives me the Cannot use this node error, but in the VAB the engine can be attached any which way you want.

Not a big issue, just caught me off guard when I sent a rescue mission with some and found I couldn't attach them.

Hello. Wrench can only attach thru the part's stack nodes. Radial attachment needs a surface node. Use electric screwdriver when EVA and it should work fine.

Edited by IgorZ

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I have been messing around with KIS/KAS since 0.25 when it was a buggy piece of hell, and thought I'd come back to it now that it had taken new ownership.  Although not much has changed in the last few iterations, I immediately remembered why I shied away from KIS/KAS in the first place - things always break.

EG; I RV'd two large (150+ parts) ships in low orbit and attached them with pipe links.  I had had experiences in the past where a single pipe link would lead to gyro-kraken in minutes so this time I used 2.  The vessels seemed stable enough so I went about replacing a medium TCS unit I had broken earlier.  Lo and behold, as soon as I attached the new one to the engine nacelle, the entire nacelle fell off the ship, as if I had detached it with a wrench.  Unfortunately I didn't catch a look at the logs before reloading the quicksave, but if it happens again I'll add them.

I have KAC and KER installed, as well as OPM but honestly I can't see where a mod conflict would create these physics'y bugs.  APIs work in mysterious ways though...

I want to use this mod to its full effect but I honestly can't see the point if my ships are going to get destroyed by bugs.

EDIT: Another thing I noticed is that kerbals on EVA in zero-gee environments like to reorient themselves sometimes on interaction with the KIS UI.

Edited by natsirt721

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4 minutes ago, natsirt721 said:

I have been messing around with KIS/KAS since 0.25 when it was a buggy piece of hell, and thought I'd come back to it now that it had taken new ownership.  Although not much has changed in the last few iterations, I immediately remembered why I shied away from KIS/KAS in the first place - things always break.

EG; I RV'd two large (150+ parts) ships in low orbit and attached them with pipe links.  I had had experiences in the past where a single pipe link would lead to gyro-kraken in minutes so this time I used 2.  The vessels seemed stable enough so I went about replacing a medium TCS unit I had broken earlier.  Lo and behold, as soon as I attached the new one to the engine nacelle, the entire nacelle fell off the ship, as if I had detached it with a wrench.  Unfortunately I didn't catch a look at the logs before reloading the quicksave, but if it happens again I'll add them.

I have KAC and KER installed, as well as OPM but honestly I can't see where a mod conflict would create these physics'y bugs.  APIs work in mysterious ways though...

I want to use this mod to its full effect but I honestly can't see the point if my ships are going to get destroyed by bugs.

EDIT: Another thing I noticed is that kerbals on EVA in zero-gee environments like to reorient themselves sometimes on interaction with the KIS UI.

Two links = summon Kraken.  KIS/KAS is only to blame to the extent that it is the only way you can create such a rocket.

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2 minutes ago, natsirt721 said:

So having multiple vessel links is a bad idea?

 

Rockets are modeled as trees, forces can only flow up and down the tree.  AFIAK there's no way in stock KSP to violate this.  KIS/KAS, however, permits arbitrary connections and thus can violate this--but the forces go flying around the linked craft until something breaks and puts it back to being a tree.

 

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3 minutes ago, Loren Pechtel said:

Rockets are modeled as trees, forces can only flow up and down the tree. 

Ok, but the vessel was stable until I attached a separate part.  Maybe that induced an outside force that caused disassembly? Would using a single pipe and struts (rather than two pipes) mitigate this?

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31 minutes ago, natsirt721 said:

Ok, but the vessel was stable until I attached a separate part.  Maybe that induced an outside force that caused disassembly? Would using a single pipe and struts (rather than two pipes) mitigate this?

Probably because there was zero force wandering around.  The instant there was a force, boom.

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Hey, can you update the link to KIS please?  That sends you to the dead thread instead of the new thread

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11 hours ago, natsirt721 said:

EG; I RV'd two large (150+ parts) ships in low orbit and attached them with pipe links.  I had had experiences in the past where a single pipe link would lead to gyro-kraken in minutes so this time I used 2.  The vessels seemed stable enough so I went about replacing a medium TCS unit I had broken earlier.  Lo and behold, as soon as I attached the new one to the engine nacelle, the entire nacelle fell off the ship, as if I had detached it with a wrench.  Unfortunately I didn't catch a look at the logs before reloading the quicksave, but if it happens again I'll add them.

Let me know when you find a way to stably reproduce it. From the description I cannot suggest what could go wrong. Logs is the first place to look: at least we would know if it was NRE (the best case since it's easy to track and fix), a vessel connection issue, or a random physics force.

6 hours ago, Sampa said:

Hey, can you update the link to KIS please?  That sends you to the dead thread instead of the new thread

Done. Thanks for noting.

Edited by IgorZ

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I've been encountering an odd bug recently which I'm now reasonably certain is KAS-related.  Long story short, the water resource (used by MKS, interstellar and some other mods) - and only the water resource - isn't flowing properly through KAS links.  If I have a part that produces or consumes water, it won't "see" water storage that is connected to it (directly or indirectly) through a KAS connector (tested with both KAS pipes and the flexotubes which - I think - are part of MKS).  I can still manually transfer water between tanks that are connected via KAS - only automatic consumption/production seems to be affected.

I've encountered this problem with both MKS and interstellar parts, but only with the water resource - others (including other non-stock resources) work fine.  No idea why water is the exception.

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19 hours ago, cthulhum said:

I've encountered this problem with both MKS and interstellar parts, but only with the water resource - others (including other non-stock resources) work fine.  No idea why water is the exception.

It's worth asking devs of that mods if they handle water anyhow special. KAS doesn't create attach nodes, which causes troubles with all stock resources in "Resource Transfer Obeys Fuel Crossfeed" mode. I may guess that for some reason water resource handling checks for the crossfeed settings even though the global game setting is OFF. KAS doesn't deal with the resource transfers directly.

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Fair enough.  I'd already posted a bug to the MKS github, so I'll see what RoverDude does with it.

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Hello there~ I had a request/suggestion for your consideration. I'd like to see a part added to allow players to attach objects aside from the magnet, harpoon, etc, to the winch in the VAB/SPH. I have had several ideas that I would have liked to use the winches for, the most recent being an aerobrake of sorts involving the use of the winch to send out a structural girder with airbrakes attached behind a vehicle entering an atmosphere to slow said vehicle down and orient it in the desired direction (Similar to a drogue chute), but have so far been unsuccessful. If this is already possible, could someone please enlighten me as to how I can make it work?

Edited by Blazing Sun

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I'm going to assume the answer to this is "no, we would have done it already otherwise", but:

Is there any way to implement flexible pipes in KAS? I've got a Minmus base held together with pipes; I'm a little worried about the Kraken attacking, or about fuel transfers causing the entire thing to lean weirdly. Plus it's a bit strange to have pipes suspended a meter and a half above the ground when it would make a lot more sense for them to be lying on the ground.

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@IgorZ, I've got a (what I believe to be) a great idea/suggestion. I don't know if this has been suggested or not in the past, so you'll have to forgive me/correct me if it has, but here it is:

essentially, with a drill/wrench, it is possible for a kerbal to assemble/disassemble parts in EVA (be it in orbit or not). What I am suggesting is to have the possibility of a robot being ''equipped'' with the drill/wrench the way a kerbal can. Basically, you could have what would be a variant of the drill (only the model of it) that you could install where ever in the VAB/SPH or, alternatively, you would have to ''equip'' it à-la equipping it on a kerbal during operation, which would function much in the same was as the drill/wrench being held in-hand by a kerbal, i.e.: has the capability to assemble/disassemble parts. It would add so much depth to this mod to give that capability to robotic mechanisms (e.g.: Canadarm2/Dextre).

In my mind (and I am out of my league here, I know, so correct me if Im wrong), but I don't see this as requiring too much work to realize. Model rework to add something akin to what a robot would ''hold'' and the rest of the drill functionality would be the same.

Anyways, I feel like this could definitely be a great add-on. Love both KAS and KIS!

Cheers!   

 

Edited by Calvin_Maclure

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16 hours ago, ZorbaTHut said:

Is there any way to implement flexible pipes in KAS? I've got a Minmus base held together with pipes; I'm a little worried about the Kraken attacking, or about fuel transfers causing the entire thing to lean weirdly. Plus it's a bit strange to have pipes suspended a meter and a half above the ground when it would make a lot more sense for them to be lying on the ground.

Welcome to the forums.

If avoiding the Kraken is your goal, give the USI MKS mod some consideration although the mod has much more in it than you'll need for this objective.  Large, connected, rigid structures on planetary surfaces often invoke the Kraken regardless of how you connect them.  MKS avoids this by permitting resource transfers without a physical connection, instead relying on distributed bases.

 

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ZorbaTHut: If you have a save state with your base in a known good configuration, you can use it to reset your base in a newer save state to "de-Kraken" it.  You will need to override a few lines of code, especially those pertaining to crew.  Also, it is a good idea to consistently save your base with full resources if possible (except for any that for whatever reason should be empty), so that any SFS-edit you perform will not affect your resource levels.  For example, if you just fueled a ship using standard KSP resources, use your ISRU and drills to top off on fuel and ore and then save.  I also have Extraplanetary Launchpads (for which KAS is a prerequisite), and I have made it standard practice to top off metal resources before issuing the "Finalize Build" command, and ensure all fuel tanks (not just those in my base) are full before issuing the "Release Vessel" command, unless I have some reason not to (like if the vessel is part of metal resource infrastructure, and thus should travel to its destination with the tanks for the metal resources empty).  In these cases, I top off after completing the mission and before starting a new one from that same base, and save after topping off.

The new "physics easer" is helping suppress the Kraken, but recently, I have started to have a bit of trouble with my base on Gilly (perhaps due to accumulation of minor errors).  I have noticed that sometimes it will look like a Kraken is trying to start only for things to return to normal.  The nature of the Kraken also seems to have changed since 1.2, particularly on Gilly.  Instead of ever-increasing wobbling followed by Rapid Unscheduled Disassembly, my base seems to try to come off the ground a bit, more recently trying to cause one of the modules to tip over.  Be sure when timewarping a large base not to increase or decrease your timewarp level too rapidly, as this tends to increase your chances of a Kraken.

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On 3/12/2017 at 9:44 AM, Blazing Sun said:

Hello there~ I had a request/suggestion for your consideration. I'd like to see a part added to allow players to attach objects aside from the magnet, harpoon, etc, to the winch in the VAB/SPH. I have had several ideas that I would have liked to use the winches for, the most recent being an aerobrake of sorts involving the use of the winch to send out a structural girder with airbrakes attached behind a vehicle entering an atmosphere to slow said vehicle down and orient it in the desired direction (Similar to a drogue chute), but have so far been unsuccessful. If this is already possible, could someone please enlighten me as to how I can make it work?

You can get what you want by attaching a cPort part to the winch. Then, just attach all you need to that port. However, I don't think you'll have much progress in controlling the vessel due to the objects attached to a winch are freely rotating around the cable's axis when the cable is extended (and it's not going to change).

On 3/13/2017 at 7:02 AM, ZorbaTHut said:

Is there any way to implement flexible pipes in KAS? I've got a Minmus base held together with pipes; I'm a little worried about the Kraken attacking, or about fuel transfers causing the entire thing to lean weirdly. Plus it's a bit strange to have pipes suspended a meter and a half above the ground when it would make a lot more sense for them to be lying on the ground.

There is a way to implement it. All I need to do to have it done is re-factoring the whole KAS codebase :)  And, in fact, it's already being made in scope of KAS 1.0 (see RTS-1 part). In the meanwhile you may use old KAS winches to have a flexible link.

On 3/13/2017 at 8:01 PM, Calvin_Maclure said:

@IgorZ, I've got a (what I believe to be) a great idea/suggestion. I don't know if this has been suggested or not in the past, so you'll have to forgive me/correct me if it has, but here it is:

essentially, with a drill/wrench, it is possible for a kerbal to assemble/disassemble parts in EVA (be it in orbit or not). What I am suggesting is to have the possibility of a robot being ''equipped'' with the drill/wrench the way a kerbal can. Basically, you could have what would be a variant of the drill (only the model of it) that you could install where ever in the VAB/SPH or, alternatively, you would have to ''equip'' it à-la equipping it on a kerbal during operation, which would function much in the same was as the drill/wrench being held in-hand by a kerbal, i.e.: has the capability to assemble/disassemble parts. It would add so much depth to this mod to give that capability to robotic mechanisms (e.g.: Canadarm2/Dextre).

In my mind (and I am out of my league here, I know, so correct me if Im wrong), but I don't see this as requiring too much work to realize. Model rework to add something akin to what a robot would ''hold'' and the rest of the drill functionality would be the same.

Anyways, I feel like this could definitely be a great add-on. Love both KAS and KIS!

Cheers! 

First of all, assembling/disassembling parts is a KIS responsibility, not KAS. And speaking about using these features via an unmanned vessels, no - it cannot be done in the current mods design. The code heavily relies on the fact that there is an EVA kerbal under player's control. And to be honest, it doesn't seem to be realistic for me for an arbitrary unmanned drone to perform the live kerbonaut duties. At the very least there should be a kind of "robotic arm" part.

Edited by IgorZ

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@IgorZ, ah thanks! I did not know it was KIS. I thought for sure it was KAS!  But its actually quite realistic what im propsing (not wist respect to the mod, that is). In fact, just look at what the Canadarm2/Dextre did performing the battery swap on the ISS in the last month. That's exactly the sort of functionality I was looking at. Alas... I suppose I was just wondering if there would have been a way to sort of trick the game to thinking that it has a kerbal in EVA but that ''kerbal'' would actually be a part in that situation. 

Edited by Calvin_Maclure

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Anyone know how to detach parts from a ship? Like, if you put a light in the wrong place, and want to take it off to put somewhere else?

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On 3/14/2017 at 2:40 AM, Brigadier said:

Welcome to the forums.

If avoiding the Kraken is your goal, give the USI MKS mod some consideration although the mod has much more in it than you'll need for this objective.  Large, connected, rigid structures on planetary surfaces often invoke the Kraken regardless of how you connect them.  MKS avoids this by permitting resource transfers without a physical connection, instead relying on distributed bases.

 

MKS has a more important feature for keeping the kraken away from ground bases: ground tethering. Many MKS parts have the option to "tether" a base to the ground and zero out the little jitters that build up into the big thrashing behavior that tear bases apart. I build enormous bases with lots of parts that would normally be impossible in KSP, but ground tethering makes them perfectly safe. I haven't tried attaching ground structures to each other using KAS since ground tethering became an option, but I have a suspicion that it would protect bases connected in this way too.

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I love this mod! I have a specific question though and im not sure where to post it, I built an asteroid base around Kerbin but once i go back to the space center, it doesnt give me the option to fly the craft in the tracking station, is there anyway to work around this?

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19 minutes ago, Something_Smith said:

I love this mod! I have a specific question though and im not sure where to post it, I built an asteroid base around Kerbin but once i go back to the space center, it doesnt give me the option to fly the craft in the tracking station, is there anyway to work around this?

Once you attached your vessel to the asteroid the resulted assembly type was changed to "asteroid". And in the center you've likely disabled (or not enabled) the filter for the asteroids. Check the filter, enable the asteroids, switch to the vessel, and change its type to something more suitable (like "station" or "base").

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1 hour ago, IgorZ said:

Once you attached your vessel to the asteroid the resulted assembly type was changed to "asteroid". And in the center you've likely disabled (or not enabled) the filter for the asteroids. Check the filter, enable the asteroids, switch to the vessel, and change its type to something more suitable (like "station" or "base").

I renamed the asteroid but it didnt give me an option to change the ship type, it defaulted to lander though and i still cannot select fly from the tracking station, i have a manned pod and a probe attached to it

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6 minutes ago, Something_Smith said:

I renamed the asteroid but it didnt give me an option to change the ship type, it defaulted to lander though and i still cannot select fly from the tracking station, i have a manned pod and a probe attached to it

Do you see other landers in the tracking station? If yes then I don't have any more ideas. If no then what you need is enabling filter for the landers :) Btw, to change the type you need to use "info" button on the right, not the "rename" context menu. Cannot give you more details since I don't have the game installed on the laptop. Maybe someone else can provide a screenshot of how to change the type?

And a side note, whatever caused this problem it was definitely not KAS or KIS :wink:

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