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[Minimum KSP version - 1.11] Kerbal Attachment System (KAS) v1.12


IgorZ

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10 hours ago, IgorZ said:

Sorry, I cannot give support for 1.3.

Can you reproduce it for me in a pristine game at the launchpad? A video will be highly appreciated. A few people report this issue but it doesn't reproduce on my game setup.

I've just tested it again with a new sandbox game only KIS and KAS installed as mods. My game just updated to 1.4.2 and I have module manager 3.0.6 installed. Same results, the magnet only wants to install on the wrong side. Hope this helps in some way. Cheers in advance for any trouble shooting you're able to do.

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13 hours ago, Liofa said:

I don't have the capability to record a video, however I have taken some screenshots of a new sandbox game I made and a quick test on the lanchpad.

If you operating system is Windows 10, then you do have such a capability.

13 hours ago, Liofa said:

I've tried it upside down and right way up, as my original situtation had a winch pointing upwards as I was working underneath the craft. I do have some other mods installed, but nothing that should affect things like this. 

Could you please make a game setup of the bare minimum of mods? KIS+KAS+MM and nothing else. Then, please make a save file and share it with me. I'll load it into my system and see how it behaves there. I also need your game log.

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58 minutes ago, IgorZ said:

If you operating system is Windows 10, then you do have such a capability.

Could you please make a game setup of the bare minimum of mods? KIS+KAS+MM and nothing else. Then, please make a save file and share it with me. I'll load it into my system and see how it behaves there. I also need your game log.

I'm using Windows 7 Pro. I'll see about making you a save file. 

Although, you might have missed my second post yesterday -- I've tried the game with just KAS, KIS and MM under a new sandbox save in KSP 1.4.2 (game just updated) and I have module manager 3.0.6 installed. Same results, the magnet only wants to install on the wrong side.

I'll see about a save and log file tonight. 

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13 hours ago, IgorZ said:

If you operating system is Windows 10, then you do have such a capability.

Could you please make a game setup of the bare minimum of mods? KIS+KAS+MM and nothing else. Then, please make a save file and share it with me. I'll load it into my system and see how it behaves there. I also need your game log.

Try this: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1DuzCY7ab6rSFqlZOe19y5GbqkbW08pHJ

I've done some more testing. It looks like I can attach the magnet on the correct side if I extend the winch out first, grab the node and attach it. It's a bit of a pain in space though. I can't attach the magnet to the node direct on top of the winch or below the winch during EVA, I can attach it properly in the VAB

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On 3/30/2018 at 10:44 AM, Liofa said:

Try this: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1DuzCY7ab6rSFqlZOe19y5GbqkbW08pHJ

I've done some more testing. It looks like I can attach the magnet on the correct side if I extend the winch out first, grab the node and attach it. It's a bit of a pain in space though. I can't attach the magnet to the node direct on top of the winch or below the winch during EVA, I can attach it properly in the VAB

Thanks. Finally, I've figured it out! The issue was fixed on my side, but the updated files were never released, even though I thought they were.

I'll make and release the update one day (the legacy KAS maintenance is very low priority task). But you can fix it yourself. Open the magnet, harpoon and grapple configs and find the following string:

allowPartAttach = Disabled

And replace it to:

allowPartAttach = AllowedWithKisTool

This will fix the issue.

Edited by IgorZ
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Just a newbie question, although it's undocumented as far as I searched.
How can I attach things to a kerbal itself?
I mean, let's say I want to attach a cubic strut into the back of Jebediah Kerman, how can I achieve this? The common way of surface-attaching things doesn't let me (notice the red outline):

392AF4BC4433624D8BA124E94E2BD68C27455F53

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4 minutes ago, diegojsrw said:

Just a newbie question, although it's undocumented as far as I searched.
How can I attach things to a kerbal itself?
I mean, let's say I want to attach a cubic strut into the back of Jebediah Kerman, how can I achieve this? The common way of surface-attaching things doesn't let me (notice the red outline):

392AF4BC4433624D8BA124E94E2BD68C27455F53

You cannot. Kerbal is a living being, you cannot attach things to it. KIS allows "equipping" items, but it's a different story since every such part should be specifically designed for that.

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29 minutes ago, IgorZ said:

You cannot. Kerbal is a living being, you cannot attach things to it. KIS allows "equipping" items, but it's a different story since every such part should be specifically designed for that.

What about one of the main menu intros, where one of them, landed on Mün, appears carrying the square KIS container on his back?

Edit: got screenshot of similar screen: they are definitely carrying something on their backs using KIS/KAS (this orbit scene doesn't have that container on the back before installing KIS/KAS).
HeGbEd1.png

Edited by diegojsrw
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1 hour ago, diegojsrw said:

What about one of the main menu intros, where one of them, landed on Mün, appears carrying the square KIS container on his back?

Edit: got screenshot of similar screen: they are definitely carrying something on their backs using KIS/KAS (this orbit scene doesn't have that container on the back before installing KIS/KAS).
HeGbEd1.png

Those are "carriable" containers. It's a special case of the "equippable" items. Today only two containers are naturally supported by KIS: ScienceBox and KIS portable container. To have them carried, simply put them inside the kerbal's inventory (it won't work in VAB). You cannot carry more than one container, though. But you can equip many items, as long as they are placed at the different slots. E.g. the "bomb" in the left hand of the right-most kerbal is equipped to the "left hand" slot.

Edited by IgorZ
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On 01/04/2018 at 6:26 AM, IgorZ said:

Thanks. Finally, I've figured it out! The issue was fixed on my side, but the updated files were never released, even though I thought they were.

I'll make and release the update one day (the legacy KAS maintenance is very low priority task). But you can fix it yourself. Open the magnet, harpoon and grapple configs and find the following string:


allowPartAttach = Disabled

And replace it to:


allowPartAttach = AllowedWithKisTool

This will fix the issue.

Thanks IgorZ. 

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On 3/25/2018 at 5:47 PM, IgorZ said:

CKAN gives GitHub as "Home" of the mod, but not as a release source. When CKAN needs the release files, it knows that they must be taken from CurseForge. The releases on GitHub are only the sources snapshots, they cannot and must not be installed into the game. And to stop people doing this mistake, every GitHub release has the following string in the description:

I wonder, why did you try to install the release from GitHub, given you have CKAN installed?

I had no problems with mods from any other authors when I downloaded from their GitHub repositories which were listed in CKAN.  Yours are the only mods in my list which don't seem to have the completed release versions posted to GitHub.  CKAN stopped installing my mods correctly for whatever reason, so I manually download the files when it's time to get updates and I discovered there's a difference which wasn't obvious when I was looking for files to download and not stopping to read notations which weren't directly inline with the file links.  There's a big green, "Latest release," icon on the page, so that's what I gravitated toward.

So, from where I'm sitting, my point is still that I picked up the wrong file because it looked right at a glance.  With that in mind, it would be very easy for you to drop the latest release version on GitHub along with the snapshot/incomplete files instead of depending on users to read everything you wrote when they're just on surgical strikes for a dozen mods to download at trusted links they've been given ... when CKAN doesn't behave.

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2 hours ago, DCar said:

With that in mind, it would be very easy for you to drop the latest release version on GitHub along with the snapshot/incomplete files instead of depending on users to read everything you wrote when they're just on surgical strikes for a dozen mods to download at trusted links they've been given ... when CKAN doesn't behave.

Sorry, it's not gonna happen. I host the release files in the exactly one place, and this place is CurseForge (I have my reasons, trust me). No objections if someone will be picking the release files from CurseForge and downloading them into the different systems - all my mods are distributed under the Public Domain license, so anyone can do anything with them.

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3 hours ago, Bill Kerman Brother said:

is this updated for ksp 1.4?

Best to just read a few posts up the thread-- only just 4 posts above yours is a screenshot clearly showing it running on 1.4.2.  So the answer is yes-- but in general, it's considered polite to at least glance at the thread before asking this sort of thing, because chances are high that the question's already answered.  :wink:

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Hi!


There is a small problem with KAS 0.6.4 and how it affects the resource consumption/generation on unloaded vessels. I am trying to fix it or work around it.


The problem is this:

- I have pieced together a surface mining vessel out of 3 smaller vessels. Main part has ore tanks, an ISRU, and generates electric charge. Second part is a big Lf+Ox tank. The third one is just 8 mining drills and a small fuel tank that holds them together. The main part has winches that plug into the CC-R2 ports on the other two.
- the problem happens when I turn on the Lf+Ox ISRU, the ore drill, and then leave the scene. Come back 5 days later, and the resources will have gone up as if only 1-2 hours have passed.


Some remarks on the problem:

- both winches and link connections are affected
- same thing happens with resource types other than Lf/Ox, like printing rocket parts and building vessels with EPL. If I want to generate resources efficiently, I need to either babysit the vessel and do the time warp with the vessel loaded, or switch back to the vessel every 2 hours so it replugs and reactivates mining
- same thing happens even if the winches were connected/docked in the VAB and never disconnected into separate vessels since launch.
- none of this happens if the vessel is built in one piece. Also does not seem to happen if the vessel is connected with stock docking ports instead of KAS.

 


This is my speculation on what is happening, please confirm or correct my assumptions:

- the resource consumption/generation is handled by the KSP stock game logic and does not actually work in the background for unloaded vessels. The game probably just reads the values it had when the vessel was unloaded, and how much you are using/generating per second. It extrapolates new values from the elapsed time and resource generation/usage rate.
- when a scene loads, it loads with KAS-joined parts loaded as separate vessels and undocked
- KAS somehow keeps track of these separate vessels and knows they are connected with links or winches. It assembles/docks them into one vessel only after the physics start to kick in. This takes 2-3 seconds.
- because of this, the game calculates resource usage for each of 3 sub-vessels separately
- when this happens, the ore drill is disconnected from the ore tank and the power source. The game decides that no ore was mined because the drills ran out of power immediately after I unloaded the vessel (since the drill part has zero charge capacity). The ISRU will only convert as much ore as it had in the ore tank.


Different ideas for possible solutions:
- make the game delay resource recalculation until after KAS completes reassembly
- have KAS force a new game-native resource recalculation after the craft is reassembled
- have KAS take over and do its own resource recalculation. Complicated, but could work if the first two methods fail.
- make KAS connect parts like the stock docking port does. Not sure if this is feasible or even possible. Could be a few lines of code, could also be a major refactoring.

 


I realize that making major changes to an old version of the plugin is probably not among the top priorities for the mainainter, so I am keen on trying to fix this myself :)

I have some .NET and Unity programming experience but I'm fairly new to KSP plugin development so my domain knowledge here is pretty weak.

If anyone has any pointers/suggestions, they will be appreciated :) Like how is KAS docking different from regular stock port docking?

BTW I'm using KAS=0.6.4 on KSP=1.3.1. I did not test how KAS=1.0+ behaves but I will soon.


Thanks!


 

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@Terlisimo The old KAS was working like this from the beginning. I think the problem is that it doesn't create attach nodes when docking vessels. I cannot tell why it's an issue in the offline mode, but is not an issue when the vessel is active. Anyways, this won't be fixed in KAS 0.6.*, but it's very likely already fixed in the Beta. In KAS 1.0 all links are created via the attach nodes, as the stock docking ports do. Try using TJ1/TJ2 parts from the Beta to connect the vessels. You may need many of them, though. Just don't leave them in your career game.

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KAS made the game so much more fun! I managed to savage my first mining ship, which I forgot to put radiator on by hooking up a bigger miner that have enough radiator for both ships. Operation big success!

And I am wondering if this is a place for feature request? It would be really nice if we can have some equitable flashlights to help EVA in the night time. either disposable or rechargeable would be nice. Hand held antenna for data transmit? Handheld  science equipment? It seem like there are a lot of low hanging fruit in the eva item to improve the gameplay.

 

Thanks again for the excellent mod!

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1 hour ago, deep space 5 said:

It would be really nice if we can have some equitable flashlights to help EVA in the night time. either disposable or rechargeable would be nice

Try this:

 

1 hour ago, deep space 5 said:

Hand held antenna for data transmit? Handheld  science equipment? It seem like there are a lot of low hanging fruit in the eva item to improve the gameplay.

Those fruits are not that low hanging as you may think :)  However, you can easily achieve it by bringing all the needed parts in the backpack and assembling them at the palace of measurement.

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Deep Space 5 - at the risk of this sounding like a slag which it isn't intended to be are you aware that you can turn on the suit lights while in EVA by hitting the L key? If you do then I am curious about your suggestions. And I agree 100% this mod really makes the game once you get past the early blow it up on the pad stage. 

 

 

 

I knew that and did it on purpose! 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Small request IgorZ, would love to see the winch cable texture from KAS beta 1.0 on all winches.  I know its a minor detail but I love the winch cable textures you made.  Really...  they look very cool when I am building a recovery winch ground mount to turn one of my rovers back to upright.

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3 hours ago, ArkaelDren said:

Small request IgorZ, would love to see the winch cable texture from KAS beta 1.0 on all winches.  I know its a minor detail but I love the winch cable textures you made.  Really...  they look very cool when I am building a recovery winch ground mount to turn one of my rovers back to upright.

All new winches will use the new textures. And the old winches will be completely deprecated eventually (I don't plan to support the old KAS parts forever). I'd strongly suggest to simply switch to the new parts as soons as the 1.0 version is out of beta :)

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5 hours ago, IgorZ said:

All new winches will use the new textures. And the old winches will be completely deprecated eventually (I don't plan to support the old KAS parts forever). I'd strongly suggest to simply switch to the new parts as soons as the 1.0 version is out of beta :)

Oh yeah, already using the beta.  Got one problem though.  I use the non powered robotics hinges to create "Trailer" hitches instead of KAS due to the fact they don't dock, so I cant power the trailer wheels/tracks.  I need all the power I can get climbing mountains.  Can you make the Tow Bar docking optional?  Also the Cable stays(Mini Winches)don't offer much strength in comparison to a good strut.  Is their a way to make them a bit less elastic? Sorry if its been asked.

Thx man, loving the direction.

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18 hours ago, ArkaelDren said:

Can you make the Tow Bar docking optional?

Alas, it won't work if the vessels are docked. Moreover, controlling of the vessels when all of them have powered wheels is a very challenging goal. The existing implementation of the tow bar won't handle this situation. And if I had to implement a tow bar for your needs, I'd spend days only to investigate how to do it right. Sorry, not for now :(

18 hours ago, ArkaelDren said:

Also the Cable stays(Mini Winches)don't offer much strength in comparison to a good strut.

It's because they are not struts. They are the cable links. The links resist stretching but do not apply any force when the distance is being shortened. The strength applied towards the stretching is limited, of course. I tried to set them reasonable. If you need more strength, just use more PCBs. Or adjust the config of the part :)

18 hours ago, ArkaelDren said:

Oh yeah, already using the beta

I really hope you don't do it in the carrier game. I'm going to break the backwards compatibility at least one time more before going to the release (see the disclaimer). In fact, the upcoming "final beta release" won't be compatible with any of the previous beta versions.

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