[Minimum KSP version - 1.11] Kerbal Attachment System (KAS) v1.12

[jefferyharrell]

36 minutes ago, darthgently said:

Only an appearance of working would need to occur.  Much like ISRU bases and TACLs do background resource calculations.  Pipelines would work in a similar manner merely reducing the flow to and from the pipeline at the active end to predicted flows.  But thanks for answering, appreciated

I'm not sure how you'd even attach two vessels that aren't active at the same time.

[IgorZ]

1 hour ago, darthgently said:

Much like ISRU bases and TACLs do background resource calculations

They don't. The amount of the produced resources is calculated on the vessel load.

[darthgently]

11 hours ago, IgorZ said:

They don't. The amount of the produced resources is calculated on the vessel load.

Yes, the resources on the unloaded craft works that way on unloaded craft, but one gets notifications from TACLS, for example, that water or oxygen is running low on unloaded craft on rails.  I think it uses a predictive algorithm and doesn't really do anything on the unloaded vessel of course.  For TACLS it depends on whether you have the settings option "Unloaded Vessel Processing" checked or not.  If not checked, then it plays catch up when you make the craft active, if checked then it predicts the resource level changes.  The same could be done for an ISRU base, which if it had a pipeline to another site, could give cumulative flow values for the other end of the pipeline when it became active.  I think some of these mods rely on a mod called Background Resources.

11 hours ago, jefferyharrell said:

I'm not sure how you'd even attach two vessels that aren't active at the same time.

It would need to be an entirely new code construct, no doubt.  But not as complicated as it would seem.  It would be the same as one big base but with no physics connection.  So quite a bit simpler.  Just subtracting and adding resources to each end predictively for reporting purposes when they aren't active and playing catch up for either one when it becomes active.  Not a KSP 1.x.x thing for sure.  Well, maybe, but I'm not asking for that.  I suggested it for KSP2 in the forum, not KSP1

[IgorZ]

54 minutes ago, darthgently said:

The same could be done for an ISRU base, which if it had a pipeline to another site

It won't be exactly same.  For the resources consumption you can simply set a timer, which is cheap performance wise. It's trivial to calculate for the how long the selected resource will last, given the known consumption. Things change when you have ISRU and one of the ends is inactive. Now you need to handle the inactive end on every fixed frame (regardless to if it's a source or a target), which is a lot more expensive than a simple timer. Not to mention you would need to implement a whole new bulk of code to process the unloaded vessels.

54 minutes ago, darthgently said:

But not as complicated as it would seem

It is much more complicated then you may assume before looking into the real code. I'm not saying it's impossible at all, but it will require substantial development and testing efforts, and would roughly double the amount of the code to maintain. To start with, the resource flow graph is a thing that is built on vessel load and gets updated during the vessel life cycle. This thing cannot be fully simulated without wakening up all the modules on the vessel. Any approximation algorithm will likely break the mods that deal with the dynamic resources.

Given the use case, I'm really not sure if it ever become a stock feature in either KSP or KSP2.

One possible workaround could be making a code that would prevent vessel unloading if it's attached to an active vessel. There will be edge cases, and it may be not feasible at all, but it's the best bet.

Edited October 1, 2021 by IgorZ

[darthgently]

11 hours ago, IgorZ said:

It won't be exactly same.  For the resources consumption you can simply set a timer, which is cheap performance wise. It's trivial to calculate for the how long the selected resource will last, given the known consumption. Things change when you have ISRU and one of the ends is inactive. Now you need to handle the inactive end on every fixed frame (regardless to if it's a source or a target), which is a lot more expensive than a simple timer. Not to mention you would need to implement a whole new bulk of code to process the unloaded vessels.

It is much more complicated then you may assume before looking into the real code. I'm not saying it's impossible at all, but it will require substantial development and testing efforts, and would roughly double the amount of the code to maintain. To start with, the resource flow graph is a thing that is built on vessel load and gets updated during the vessel life cycle. This thing cannot be fully simulated without wakening up all the modules on the vessel. Any approximation algorithm will likely break the mods that deal with the dynamic resources.

Given the use case, I'm really not sure if it ever become a stock feature in either KSP or KSP2.

One possible workaround could be making a code that would prevent vessel unloading if it's attached to an active vessel. There will be edge cases, and it may be not feasible at all, but it's the best bet.

I'm just focused on loaded part count as being the primary limitation in KSP (maybe a tie with spurious physics) and that approaches that would allow some portions of a craft to be simplified.  Maybe something like instead of just packed/unpacked (part availability) and loaded/unloaded (basic craft level info availability) something like a 3rd in-between state where resource processing is simulated but interpart physics is not active.  So a "resource only" ghost of the semi loaded craft would need to be dealt with.  The resource simulation can be merged with a true catch up when the craft becomes active vessel.  Yes,  you are correct, it is more complicated than I was thinking, but given KSP2 targeting *very* large bases I think it safe to assume they are doing a lot of things very differently so any assumptions based on KSP1 are not as useful. 

On a related note, I was reading into the Extraplanetary Launchpads docs and taniwha has a great write up on why bases go kraken involving the root part and gravity bending forces from that part to the rest of the base and what happens when the base becomes active and loads/unpacks.  The peripheral parts of the base relative to the root part bend down from gravity into the terrain and cause physics issues during the process.  It got me thinking that ISRU bases in particular, when they "catch up" the resource levels, might be throwing another wrench into the works as suddenly the catching up of the fuel levels would drastically alter these bending forces very quickly.  So maybe they need an "easing" where the catch-up occurs over a longer span of time, or maybe even after the craft is already loaded, unpacked, and "settled". I don't know that it isn't done this way already.  But  I mention this because ISRU bases often use a lot of KIS/KAS attachments when refueling tankers and such and might be of interest

Edited October 1, 2021 by darthgently

[DanKom01]

Greetings to all. I downloaded KAS on CAN for version 1.12.2, but neither pipes nor other connections are available. What is the problem?

[IgorZ]

1 hour ago, DanKom01 said:

Greetings to all. I downloaded KAS on CAN for version 1.12.2, but neither pipes nor other connections are available. What is the problem?

Which part(s) have you tried? How exactly they didn't work? Do you have logs? Also, I strongly recommend you to check the OP videos and images to verify if you're using KAS the way it's intendent to be used.

[Stumble]

I am not sure what is going on, but for some reason the separate parts command doesn't seem to be working for me (holding 'H' while left clicking). I am also getting some weird behavior where when removing a part from a Minmus base either the part fails to move if I try and attach it to a node, or the entire base gets moved and clipped into the ground. It seems to randomly effect some parts and not other identical ones. I have been trying to work around it, and bringing replacements from KSP sometimes works, sometimes not. It isn't until they are on site I can determine if its going to work.

 

Has anyone seen this before?

[IgorZ]

1 hour ago, Stumble said:

I am not sure what is going on, but for some reason the separate parts command doesn't seem to be working for me (holding 'H' while left clicking). I am also getting some weird behavior where when removing a part from a Minmus base either the part fails to move if I try and attach it to a node, or the entire base gets moved and clipped into the ground. It seems to randomly effect some parts and not other identical ones. I have been trying to work around it, and bringing replacements from KSP sometimes works, sometimes not. It isn't until they are on site I can determine if its going to work.

 

Has anyone seen this before?

Given the context, it's a KIS (Kerbal Inventory System) issue. Please, capture a short video and the logs, and report it to the right forum thread.

[Stumble]

7 hours ago, IgorZ said:

Given the context, it's a KIS (Kerbal Inventory System) issue. Please, capture a short video and the logs, and report it to the right forum thread.

Will do thank you.

[IgorZ]

1.10 (October 20th, 2021):

• [Fix #326] Error in the logs when an inactive vessel gets in range.

[AceofSpades308]

I just downloaded the mod and I don't know how to get the kerbals to pickup the connector any help you could provide would be greatly appreciated.

[Galileo chiu]

does this work with the stock inventory system?

[IgorZ]

2 hours ago, AceofSpades308 said:

I just downloaded the mod and I don't know how to get the kerbals to pickup the connector any help you could provide would be greatly appreciated.

Have you checked the videos in OP? They cover pretty much all the functionality.

1 hour ago, Galileo chiu said:

does this work with the stock inventory system?

Yes, it does.

[AceofSpades308]

10 hours ago, IgorZ said:

Have you checked the videos in OP? They cover pretty much all the functionality.

Yes I have when I click grab connector it does nothing

[IgorZ]

16 hours ago, AceofSpades308 said:

Yes I have when I click grab connector it does nothing

Could you please record a short video and provide the logs?

[ajaymnair]

On 10/8/2021 at 1:14 AM, DanKom01 said:

Greetings to all. I downloaded KAS on CAN for version 1.12.2, but neither pipes nor other connections are available. What is the problem?

I am facing the same issue. I am not able to find these new products in the inventory. I am also using 1.12.2 and installed KAS using CKAN.

On 10/8/2021 at 3:04 AM, IgorZ said:

Which part(s) have you tried? How exactly they didn't work? Do you have logs? Also, I strongly recommend you to check the OP videos and images to verify if you're using KAS the way it's intendent to be used.

I believe I am facing the same issue. The new items don't show up anywhere to add to the inventory. They are just not available during construction. Not sure what I am doing wrong.

[IgorZ]

4 hours ago, ajaymnair said:

I believe I am facing the same issue. The new items don't show up anywhere to add to the inventory. They are just not available during construction. Not sure what I am doing wrong.

It's impossible to help without extra information. Can you capture the logs from the game and share them (read here to learn how)? A short video would be helpful too.

[ajaymnair]

On 10/28/2021 at 1:49 AM, IgorZ said:

It's impossible to help without extra information. Can you capture the logs from the game and share them (read here to learn how)? A short video would be helpful too.

Here is the link to my log file. I have a lot of mods installed that maybe is causing the issue. I have another instance of the game which shows the KAS parts fine when only this mod is installed.

[ajaymnair]

On 10/27/2021 at 9:13 PM, ajaymnair said:

I am facing the same issue. I am not able to find these new products in the inventory. I am also using 1.12.2 and installed KAS using CKAN.

I believe I am facing the same issue. The new items don't show up anywhere to add to the inventory. They are just not available during construction. Not sure what I am doing wrong.

Found out why this was happening.  Uninstalling 'Community Parts Titles Extras: CCK - No Duplicates' fixed the issue.

[mjl1966]

confusing KIS with KAS ... nothing to see here.  No stupid questions or anything like that.  Move alone.

Edited October 30, 2021 by mjl1966

[mjl1966]

Wait... I used to be able to put a connector on part A and part B and then just drag pipe between them.  Now I have to put connector on part A and RTS on part B?  And then another RTS on part B (for like a pylon) to do another 30m to another connector on part C?

Umm... why?  (sorry, this just seems more complicated to me... am I missing something?)

[IgorZ]

1 hour ago, mjl1966 said:

Umm... why?  (sorry, this just seems more complicated to me... am I missing something?)

Because this is how it would happen IRL. In the old approach you were putting two 8kg connectors, and then pulling 30m of pipes out of nowhere. If you still like this approach, it can be activated. Read some pages back, this question has been discussed here multiple times.

[mjl1966]

Fair enough.  I was curious more than anything else -- I figured out the reel/connector thing and it works fine.  Have to plan a little better, but other than that, it's the same deal.  Thanks for keeping KAS alive through all the versions, I know it's not easy keeping up with Squad.  Many of my old favorite mods have been lost along the way.

[memerman02]

On 10/30/2021 at 12:01 AM, IgorZ said:

Because this is how it would happen IRL. In the old approach you were putting two 8kg connectors, and then pulling 30m of pipes out of nowhere. If you still like this approach, it can be activated. Read some pages back, this question has been discussed here multiple times.

unrelated topic

but i was wondering why you removed the harpoons and the other items alike and the features that came with them and if you would be willing or have plans to add them back in for 1.12.2