Low mass Eeloo mission

[Firemetal]

Just now, Der Anfang said:

Allowed*

Wow. I must thank you for bringing this thread back. It was probably at page five. You didn't have to post here just to correct me you know.

[Der Anfang]

5 minutes ago, Firemetal said:

Wow. I must thank you for bringing this thread back. It was probably at page five. You didn't have to post here just to correct me you know.

Lol. Just playing, my friend. Also, I think I saw this challenge on the first page.

Anyway, are you still accepting entries? I am interested. I've never actually been to Eeeloo yet, but should be a really fun challenge.

Edited August 14, 2016 by Der Anfang

[Firemetal]

1 minute ago, Der Anfang said:

Lol. Just playing, my friend. Also, I think I saw this challenge on the first page.

Anyway, are you still accepting entries? I am interested. I've never actually been to Eeeloo yet, but should be a really fun challenge.

Hmm? First page? I haven't been watching the challenges very recently.

Yes I am still accepting entries. Eeloo and Dres are both around the same skill level, It just takes a little more DV to get to Eeloo and get to Kerbin from Eeloo than it does Dres. So it should be a piece of ca... oh wait. You also have to do it under 50 tons. So I'd suggest using Ion engines or building a mk1 interplanetary SSTO to get to Eeloo under 50 tons. Good luck!

[Der Anfang]

Just now, Firemetal said:

Hmm? First page? I haven't been watching the challenges very recently.

Yes I am still accepting entries. Eeloo and Dres are both around the same skill level, It just takes a little more DV to get to Eeloo and get to Kerbin from Eeloo than it does Dres. So it should be a piece of ca... oh wait. You also have to do it under 50 tons. So I'd suggest using Ion engines or building a mk1 interplanetary SSTO to get to Eeloo under 50 tons. Good luck!

The DV requirements for Dres are a pain, but most certainly not as bad as Moho. I've managed to land an unmanned probe on Moho in my career, but wow, the capture burns are ridiculous. Dres is at least more manageable. As for Eeloo, not even using ISRU. It will actually be my first time not using an overly complicated mission, and will be very strange not having a mining operation. XD If I can pull this off, I'll certainly have a gallery for you. I do have a a few mods installed (near future tech) as well as hyper edit. So you will see those in my screen caps, but I won't be using them. If you need, I'll even provide a .craft file for you as proof of capability. Just too lazy to uninstall that other stuff.  I'll be using Mechjeb and stock, of course.

[Firemetal]

3 hours ago, Der Anfang said:

The DV requirements for Dres are a pain, but most certainly not as bad as Moho. I've managed to land an unmanned probe on Moho in my career, but wow, the capture burns are ridiculous. Dres is at least more manageable. As for Eeloo, not even using ISRU. It will actually be my first time not using an overly complicated mission, and will be very strange not having a mining operation. XD If I can pull this off, I'll certainly have a gallery for you. I do have a a few mods installed (near future tech) as well as hyper edit. So you will see those in my screen caps, but I won't be using them. If you need, I'll even provide a .craft file for you as proof of capability. Just too lazy to uninstall that other stuff.  I'll be using Mechjeb and stock, of course.

Moho is closest to the sun. This means you will have to do a crazy insertion burn which causes a crazy capture burn. When I went to Eeloo and back for the first time, I was amazed at how well it went. Absolutely no quickloads! All you need is a good transfer window a minimum of 7000 m/s (I think) and a working craft of course.

Looking forward to your entry!

[The Space Core]

On 6/27/2016 at 5:57 PM, Firemetal said:

I am 100% sure.

This can't be more than 30 tons and it went to Moho which requires a lot more Delta V. You'll definitely need ion engines but it is possible. I'm too lazy to attempt my own challenge. :/ First of all I've never done anything with Ion engines. 2nd I know that they're even slower than nukes. -.- I will attempt it at some point though!

Thats incredible but you'd ahve to be a LOOOOT more patient when  going to eeloo with Ion engines. Given eeloos inky blackness.

[Firemetal]

Just now, The Space Core said:

Thats incredible but you'd ahve to be a LOOOOT more patient when  going to eeloo with Ion engines. Given eeloos inky blackness.

Yup. I wish I was that patient. Tried Ion engines and they go about as fast as a snail. Maybe slower. Eeloo is way further out which means you have to bring a lot of batteries. Yeah. Cover your craft with them.

Good luck!

[The Space Core]

32 minutes ago, Firemetal said:

Yup. I wish I was that patient. Tried Ion engines and they go about as fast as a snail. Maybe slower. Eeloo is way further out which means you have to bring a lot of batteries. Yeah. Cover your craft with them.

Good luck!

Alright not promising an entry just yet. But I have a question. How did you place those two ion engines inside the utility compartment. How do you attach things to your craft in places without a green glove on them (I'm sorry I'm kind of a noob, I only have 1155 hours.)

[Firemetal]

Just now, The Space Core said:

Alright not promising an entry just yet. But I have a question. How did you place those two ion engines inside the utility compartment. How do you attach things to your craft in places without a green glove on them (I'm sorry I'm kind of a noob, I only have 1155 hours.)

Dude that wasn't me. I was referring to his video to prove that this challenge was possible.  

This is the youtuber: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCrfWUNq3XCKoAo_E8JMJpfg.

As for the ion engines inside the utility bay, I have no idea.

[Firemetal]

1 hour ago, JasmineJas said:

Eh, I just burn and hope for the best. Maybe that explains why the furthest I've ever gotten is the Mun (where my pilots promptly died in EVA jetpack accidents).

That's the wrong way to go! When going to the Mun, just burn prograde when the Mun is on the horizon. Minimus, just try placing a maneuver node on the ascending/descending nodes and burning prograde.

For all the other planets though, you need to use transfer windows. These are angles between you, your destination and the sun.

There are many sites that calculate transfer windows. Or you could just use Kerbal Alarm clock as I do.

 

 

[Jhawk1099]

On 7/4/2016 at 6:17 AM, Firemetal said:

Ik that. Mech Jeb computer is aloud. 

(wise guy voice)  You want to say allowed.

Aloud=  adverb

 

1. 1.

   audibly; not silently or in a whisper.

   "he read the letter aloud"

   synonyms:

   audibly, out loud, for all to hear "please don't read aloud"

[Firemetal]

3 hours ago, Jhawk1099 said:

(wise guy voice)  You want to say allowed.

Aloud=  adverb

 

1. 1.

   audibly; not silently or in a whisper.

   "he read the letter aloud"

   synonyms:

   audibly, out loud, for all to hear "please don't read aloud"

Hey thanks! You are the second person in this thread to correct me for the same reason!

Yeah. I made a grammatical error. So? I'd also like to let you know that I type stuff fast. So fast that I say something super random instead of what I really wanted to say. I also want to point out that I made that post a couple of weeks ago. And there are a lot of people on this forum who have even worse grammar! Why correct me but not them?

Yeah you want to get a rise out of me. I don't care.  

[Jhawk1099]

16 hours ago, Firemetal said:

Hey thanks! You are the second person in this thread to correct me for the same reason!

*snip*

Yeah you want to get a rise out of me. I don't care.  

hehe sorry I was just bored. On an actually related not I plan on doing this challenge this weekend (probably not on Saturday as for some reason I have a 12 hour shift as a lifeguard). It is a really simple and cool mission idea 

[Firemetal]

4 hours ago, Jhawk1099 said:

hehe sorry I was just bored. On an actually related not I plan on doing this challenge this weekend (probably not on Saturday as for some reason I have a 12 hour shift as a lifeguard). It is a really simple and cool mission idea 

Hey thanks. Btw, you mean On an actually related "note". Payback. 

Looking forward to your entry! 

[DBowman]

I decided to have a go with a TAC-LS attempt. I have some pics of prototypes. LS adds some 'issues':

1. Life Support Mass - and lower DeltaV / lower propellant mass = more time = more life support mass trade-off
2. Capsule Mass - EVA life support is 6 hours so the pilot needs a capsule and no solar recharging the lander for 10 days.
3. Pre-Supply - the way they would really do something like this is send the lander and return supplies ahead of time by robotic low DeltaV slow trajectory, then have a high DeltaV fast trajectory human craft rendezvous with the supplies. So I'm going to do it that way.
4. Rendezvous at Eeloo - to do this efficiently the supply vehicle and crew vehicle should both capture into the plane of the Eeloo-Kerbin departure burn. I'm not sure I'll be able to arrange that, I'm hoping using 'reference' probes and tweaking arrival times can get 'close enough'.

 

One tank and a bit for K-Ee burn and the rest for Ee capture. If I cannot get it up in one then it can be two 5 ton chunks that I'll dock together in LKO. 

 

A 5 ton supply vehicle, then engine is the Eeloo lander. It can burn continuously in the sun at Kerbin, but TWR is 0.04 so lots of Pe kicks and then... At Eeloo it will have to do 3 or 4 burns separated by one hour recharges.

I've not yet thought about how to package and lift all the bits. 35 ton left for lifting - so I guess it's got to be wings, though if I just scale up the payload : mass ration of my best entry the total would be 73 ton...

Edited August 21, 2016 by DBowman

[Der Anfang]

Well Firemetal. I'm not sure if I am destined to complete this challenge or not, and I really want to hit that scoreboard. And in general I have this burning passion to just complete it because it taunts me. No, mocks me. It compels me! I created a craft under 24 tonnes which, in theory, is supposed to be able to pull off this mission. But because of some weird bug with the command seats and docking ports, it's impossible for me to complete it with this design, and it's the best one I've made yet for this challenge!  For details, if you think you can help me: 

Frustrating! And I refuse to use ions.Too complicated far range missions.

[Firemetal]

On August 21, 2016 at 2:01 AM, DBowman said:

I decided to have a go with a TAC-LS attempt. I have some pics of prototypes. LS adds some 'issues':

1. Life Support Mass - and lower DeltaV / lower propellant mass = more time = more life support mass trade-off
2. Capsule Mass - EVA life support is 6 hours so the pilot needs a capsule and no solar recharging the lander for 10 days.
3. Pre-Supply - the way they would really do something like this is send the lander and return supplies ahead of time by robotic low DeltaV slow trajectory, then have a high DeltaV fast trajectory human craft rendezvous with the supplies. So I'm going to do it that way.
4. Rendezvous at Eeloo - to do this efficiently the supply vehicle and crew vehicle should both capture into the plane of the Eeloo-Kerbin departure burn. I'm not sure I'll be able to arrange that, I'm hoping using 'reference' probes and tweaking arrival times can get 'close enough'.

 

One tank and a bit for K-Ee burn and the rest for Ee capture. If I cannot get it up in one then it can be two 5 ton chunks that I'll dock together in LKO. 

 

A 5 ton supply vehicle, then engine is the Eeloo lander. It can burn continuously in the sun at Kerbin, but TWR is 0.04 so lots of Pe kicks and then... At Eeloo it will have to do 3 or 4 burns separated by one hour recharges.

I've not yet thought about how to package and lift all the bits. 35 ton left for lifting - so I guess it's got to be wings, though if I just scale up the payload : mass ration of my best entry the total would be 73 ton...

I am interested to see this. Good luck.

 

[DBowman]

The luck was with me 40.768 ton of runway mass. I wasn't sure it was doable but it's comfortably under 50 ton. The two flight mission plan doesn't fit with the usual challenge 'one shot' goals, but it's 'how they'd really do it' and it's still a challenge that way. 

4.849 ton pre supply mission, 14.652 on the runway - flies KEKJEe carrying return fuel and supplies using ions and gravity assists. About 16 years and 2.1 km/s deltaV.

 

10.532 ton crew vehicle, 26.116 on the runway - flies direct KEe, picks up the supplies, the ion lander bounces to the surface, and the crew vehicle returns for a 6 km/s reentry. About 5 years 340 days flight time for Valentina. About 6 km/s deltaV. At the last minute I decided to keep the 'drop tank' as a wet workshop living space.

 

Eeloo ion lander Pe kicking the return supplies.

 

Valentina ready to start the drop tank reno.

 

what could possibly happen now?

Album is here: LS LEeloo

• MJ's planner is useful; 'encounter target at time' and 'adjust closest approach' work fine with planets as targets as long as you are in Kerbal SOI
• A wet workshop mod might be fun - convert an empty fuel tank to hab space like NASA planned for the Apollo Applications Venus flyby. Some part that representing conversion mass (tools and parts) that could change crew capacity and texture...or maybe the other way 'special' tanks that are built to be 'crew enabled'.
• People build shockingly good space planes, 58% payload fraction, my crew vehicle was 40% and I thought it was 'not bad'.
• It would be useful to have a time marker node on trajectories that didn't act like a maneuver node (changing how encounters show etc), maybe when you mouse over it it shows you where the target would be then.
• Seeing SOIs would be useful; Jool's is huge and Eeloo's tiny
• Don't let your plane mass be too far in front of the center of lift on takeoff, it makes the back lift off first and the front wheel leads the plane all over the runway.
• Pilot Assistant is great, and Dynamic Deflections makes it even better.
• If you have not done planes this is a good reference

Edited September 5, 2016 by DBowman

[Firemetal]

5 hours ago, DBowman said:

The luck was with me 40.768 ton of runway mass. I wasn't sure it was doable but it's comfortably under 50 ton. The two flight mission plan doesn't fit with the usual challenge 'one shot' goals, but it's 'how they'd really do it' and it's still a challenge that way. 

4.849 ton pre supply mission, 14.652 on the runway - flies KEKJEe carrying return fuel and supplies using ions and gravity assists. About 16 years and 2.1 km/s deltaV.

 

10.532 ton crew vehicle, 26.116 on the runway - flies direct KEe, picks up the supplies, the ion lander bounces to the surface, and the crew vehicle returns for a 6 km/s reentry. About 5 years 340 days flight time for Valentina. About 6 km/s deltaV. At the last minute I decided to keep the 'drop tank' as a wet workshop living space.

 

Eeloo ion lander Pe kicking the return supplies.

 

Valentina ready to start the drop tank reno.

 

what could possibly happen now?

Album is here: LS LEeloo

• MJ's planner is useful; 'encounter target at time' and 'adjust closest approach' work fine with planets as targets as long as you are in Kerbal SOI
• A wet workshop mod might be fun - convert an empty fuel tank to hab space like NASA planned for the Apollo Applications Venus flyby. Some part that representing conversion mass (tools and parts) that could change crew capacity and texture...or maybe the other way 'special' tanks that are built to be 'crew enabled'.
• People build shockingly good space planes, 58% payload fraction, my crew vehicle was 40% and I thought it was 'not bad'.
• It would be useful to have a time marker node on trajectories that didn't act like a maneuver node (changing how encounters show etc), maybe when you mouse over it it shows you where the target would be then.
• Seeing SOIs would be useful; Jool's is huge and Eeloo's tiny
• Don't let your plane mass be too far in front of the center of lift on takeoff, it makes the back lift off first and the front wheel leads the plane all over the runway.
• Pilot Assistant is great, and Dynamic Deflections makes it even better.
• If you have not done planes this is a good reference

Nevermind, you knew two ships isn't allowed. Forget what I said about what you already know.

 

Also, I "have done planes" before. Check out my showcase thread in my sig.

Edited September 5, 2016 by Firemetal

[DBowman]

11 hours ago, Firemetal said:

I "have done planes" before. Check out my showcase thread in my sig.

I meant the 'you' in 'if you have not done planes this is a good reference' as 'whoever you are reading this' not as 'you firemetal'  I went to check out your showcase but the plane albums are not showing up - maybe the recent imgur album borking? I thought it was just a problem with inserting new albums - I'll have to go check on some of my old ones - later after work ...

[Firemetal]

1 minute ago, DBowman said:

I meant the 'you' in 'if you have not done planes this is a good reference' as 'whoever you are reading this' not as 'you firemetal'  I went to check out your showcase but the plane albums are not showing up - maybe the recent imgur album borking? I thought it was just a problem with inserting new albums - I'll have to go check on some of my old ones - later after work ...

Man. Hate imgur. If you go to the kerbalx pages, you can see a picture of them. The imgur update messed it all up. Currently working on a no refueling or isru laythe SSTO. The pics will be fixed there! Sorry!

[hazard-ish]

I've completed the challenge with a 3.61 ton craft! It's all recorded and when it's edited and the video is finished I will upload it here

I didn't know about this challenge when I started that mission, so it might not qualify but hopefully it will!

[Der Anfang]

http://imgur.com/a/OaJXZ

Okay, I don't know how to put in Imgur albums... but here it is. I had a lighter craft that was capable of doing this mission, under 40 tonnes. Sadly, the docking port/command seat bug prevented that entry...

I refused to use ions and went with the nuke instead. Ions are a pain in the neck beyond Dres. Finally, after month of mucking around with this challenge, I finally got something! Hope you like it.

 

 

Edited September 17, 2016 by Der Anfang

[Firemetal]

1 hour ago, Der Anfang said:

http://imgur.com/a/OaJXZ

Okay, I don't know how to put in Imgur albums... but here it is. I had a lighter craft that was capable of doing this mission, under 40 tonnes. Sadly, the docking port/command seta bug prevented that entry...

I refused to use ions and went with the nuke instead. Finally, after a couple of months of mucking around with this challenge, I finally got something! Hope you like it.

 

 

Ehh damnit. Someone beat me to it.  I was going to do the first non-ion entry! Oh well. Anyways my internet sucks so its going to take a while for the pictures to load. I'll look through your entry later and approve it.

Pretty good tho!

[Der Anfang]

1 hour ago, Firemetal said:

Ehh damnit. Someone beat me to it.  I was going to do the first non-ion entry! Oh well. Anyways my internet sucks so its going to take a while for the pictures to load. I'll look through your entry later and approve it.

Pretty good tho!

Thank you. Also, I apologize for the messy album... I don't know how to reorganize Imgur pictures or really know how to use it... :/

Also if you notice any inconsistencies with some of the screenshots, that was because I took different snapshots during different runs... but generally they all check out. And I didn't use the Hyper Edit, except for testing purposes. I didnt move it out of my files because I was lazy.

If in doubt and you don't believe me that I did the challenge legitimately, I can give you the .craft.