Firemetal

Low mass Eeloo mission

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33 minutes ago, Der Anfang said:

Thank you. Also, I apologize for the messy album... I don't know how to reorganize Imgur pictures or really know how to use it... :/

Also if you notice any inconsistencies with some of the screenshots, that was because I took different snapshots during different runs... but generally they all check out. And I didn't use the Hyper Edit, except for testing purposes. I didnt move it out of my files because I was lazy.

If in doubt and you don't believe me that I did the challenge legitimately, I can give you the .craft. :)

I am not in doubt. It is just that it takes a while to load all the pics and I want to see all the pics. That's all. :)

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11 hours ago, Der Anfang said:

I finally got something! Hope you like it.

Nice 'staging' plane, and you landed the nuke (couldn't at first figure what the structural plates were for - leg attachment 'adapters'). I noticed some red line coming from your craft during landing - is that a visualization aid like the aero forces?

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10 minutes ago, DBowman said:

Nice 'staging' plane, and you landed the nuke (couldn't at first figure what the structural plates were for - leg attachment 'adapters'). I noticed some red line coming from your craft during landing - is that a visualization aid like the aero forces?

Heh, yeah. The Nuke is awkward to build around and I'm not sure the Devs actually had in mind of making it a "landing" engine? Or maybe they did, I don't know. People seem to find unorthodox ways to use them anyway. But I love those structural plates because they make great for adapters. I use them all the time in my ship designs, but you gotta be careful about using too many, lest they really begin to bog down you final Delta-V. They're actually lighter than the girders, I think, and I very rarely use the girders. The structural plates are perfect for creating a light weight structural hull to reach around something, especially if you need landing legs.

And as for that red line: that is the landing auto pilot from Mechanical Jeb. I've landed hundreds of times manually, so... yeah. I just let the auto pilot do it. The lines are just visual for showing you what the auto lander is doing, but it's buggy and not super accurate? The visual lines I mean. It's a WIP feature by the developer of the mod (that I turned on out of curiosity and was just too lazy to turn it back off) anyway.

And thank you, I am glad you like my plane design. I had something similar in configuration and ten tonnes lighter, and it was an Apollo styled lander. But, I couldn't get it to work because of some really annoying bug. Pretty frustrated I couldn't get it to work because I wanted to hit the score board on the "lighter" end of the challenge.

Edited by Der Anfang

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Ok @Der Anfang, I will put your name on the leaderboard. Good job! Love the spacecraft. :D

 

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I finished my 'TAC-LS in one launch' mission - 17.994 ton on the runway!
e1BnJCR.png
 
 
 
Originally I was thinking to do it with solar ion from Kerbin and the rest nuke per my mission dev thread
 
Low TWR missions can be pretty painful to get the maneuver nodes setup. Pe kicks are not too bad, until you have to move them in time. For the departure burn if you make a few nodes then they look nothing like the final trajectory, if you make a lot then it is horrible to manage.
 
So I made some kOS scripts; things like DeltaTimeNodes(), PeKickifyNode(), SplitNode() they let me:
- make a reference trajectory to hit Eeloo on a 'marker' probe, then switch to the real vessel target the marker and see it's trajectory,
- make the same transfer node
- use my script to make many Pe Kick Nodes + one departure node
- adjust the last kick to put the departure node at the right point in the orbit
- use my script to split the departure node in to many segments
- move all the nodes back in time until the whole trajectory best matched the reference trajectory
OR3zwdv.png
[ http://imgur.com/OR3zwdv.png ] after only 1 burn it still looks tidy, errors creep in though...
 
Since I'd made that all more or less work I thought 'why not just ion the whole thing' - so I re-planed and made a new craft:
- add couple small LS cans to cover all the Pe kick time
- add 'enough' radial Xe tanks to the capsule for Eeloo capture and return
- throw away the nuke and liquid fuel tanks
- make a smaller plane to launch it (drag from stage-able wings cost more in drag than lifting a ton of wings to orbit) 
 
7UJluGO.png
[ http://imgur.com/7UJluGO.png ] last node of the departure burn
 
oU16gmp.png
[ http://imgur.com/oU16gmp.png ] Eeloo capture - Val has been burning for a long time at 70 mm/s^2 now draining the battery (nearly) with a full thrust 0.5 m/s^2
 
PeWtWxq.png
[ http://imgur.com/PeWtWxq.png ] Eeloo departure burn, wacky or no? I haven't decided if I'm doing something wrong with very very low thrust node plans
 
I thought I had allowed plenty of excess Xe, but turns out I finished with 2% left, so there is still a lot of error/cost in doing the Low TWR burns. The Pe Kick script is pretty easy to work with, so if one just did Pe kicks and capture on ion and the rest high thrust then this mission would have been 2400 m/s LowTWR and 2300 HighTWR - one could pretty easily save a lot of mass that way without much pain. I check in the VAB - PeKick & capture only with ion save 25% mass vs a 17.3 ton pure nuke vacuum vessel.
Edited by DBowman

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@DBowman No way... You did it.

Okay. I make it clear that I don't have to make another category for life support. If you want to do it with life support, do it. I will add a life support leaderboard though. Awesome. I'll look at the album a little later.

Thanks!

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16 hours ago, DBowman said:
I finished my 'TAC-LS in one launch' mission - 17.994 ton on the runway!
e1BnJCR.png
 
 
 
Originally I was thinking to do it with solar ion from Kerbin and the rest nuke per my mission dev thread
 
Low TWR missions can be pretty painful to get the maneuver nodes setup. Pe kicks are not too bad, until you have to move them in time. For the departure burn if you make a few nodes then they look nothing like the final trajectory, if you make a lot then it is horrible to manage.
 
So I made some kOS scripts; things like DeltaTimeNodes(), PeKickifyNode(), SplitNode() they let me:
- make a reference trajectory to hit Eeloo on a 'marker' probe, then switch to the real vessel target the marker and see it's trajectory,
- make the same transfer node
- use my script to make many Pe Kick Nodes + one departure node
- adjust the last kick to put the departure node at the right point in the orbit
- use my script to split the departure node in to many segments
- move all the nodes back in time until the whole trajectory best matched the reference trajectory
OR3zwdv.png
[ http://imgur.com/OR3zwdv.png ] after only 1 burn it still looks tidy, errors creep in though...
 
Since I'd made that all more or less work I thought 'why not just ion the whole thing' - so I re-planed and made a new craft:
- add couple small LS cans to cover all the Pe kick time
- add 'enough' radial Xe tanks to the capsule for Eeloo capture and return
- throw away the nuke and liquid fuel tanks
- make a smaller plane to launch it (drag from stage-able wings cost more in drag than lifting a ton of wings to orbit) 
 
7UJluGO.png
[ http://imgur.com/7UJluGO.png ] last node of the departure burn
 
oU16gmp.png
[ http://imgur.com/oU16gmp.png ] Eeloo capture - Val has been burning for a long time at 70 mm/s^2 now draining the battery (nearly) with a full thrust 0.5 m/s^2
 
PeWtWxq.png
[ http://imgur.com/PeWtWxq.png ] Eeloo departure burn, wacky or no? I haven't decided if I'm doing something wrong with very very low thrust node plans
 
I thought I had allowed plenty of excess Xe, but turns out I finished with 2% left, so there is still a lot of error/cost in doing the Low TWR burns. The Pe Kick script is pretty easy to work with, so if one just did Pe kicks and capture on ion and the rest high thrust then this mission would have been 2400 m/s LowTWR and 2300 HighTWR - one could pretty easily save a lot of mass that way without much pain. I check in the VAB - PeKick & capture only with ion save 25% mass vs a 17.3 ton pure nuke vacuum vessel.

woah woah woah what the heck is going on with your nodes??!

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2 hours ago, Firemetal said:

I will add a life support leaderboard though.

hey thanks

 

1 hour ago, Der Anfang said:

woah woah woah what the heck is going on with your nodes??!

I know - right! I think I can see Eeloo pulling it round equatorially, but also probably as the normal component of the burn takes south Eeloo will be pulling it 'down' as well, and as it gets further away Eeloo is weaker and weaker so it 'straightens out'. I still cannot decide if I messed up or if it's just an unexpected 'thats how very low TWR trajectories look'. I'm going to play around with some more of them and see.

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Here it is: my long-awaited submission to this challenge! When I started it I didn't know this forum post existed but it should be eligible anyway. So much work went into this, from the cars to writing custom settings for my visual mods to planning and executing the 12 gravity assists used throughout! I hope you enjoy! 

 

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@hazard-ish: this is one of the most kerbal things I've ever seen. Absolutely epic.

The glider is amazing and the Eeloo controlled lithobraking is a masterpiece.

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Took your time didn't you, @hazard-ish?

Had to slip that in there. :P 

My internet sucks so it'll take me a while to watch. I'm pretty sure you're fine if it is completely stock, no cheats, 100% heating ect. You'll also just beat Dbowman by .6 tons.   :D 

Good job!

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On 2016-09-18 at 2:04 AM, Der Anfang said:

Heh, yeah. The Nuke is awkward to build around and I'm not sure the Devs actually had in mind of making it a "landing" engine? Or maybe they did, I don't know. People seem to find unorthodox ways to use them anyway. But I love those structural plates because they make great for adapters. I use them all the time in my ship designs, but you gotta be careful about using too many, lest they really begin to bog down you final Delta-V. They're actually lighter than the girders, I think, and I very rarely use the girders. The structural plates are perfect for creating a light weight structural hull to reach around something, especially if you need landing legs.

And as for that red line: that is the landing auto pilot from Mechanical Jeb. I've landed hundreds of times manually, so... yeah. I just let the auto pilot do it. The lines are just visual for showing you what the auto lander is doing, but it's buggy and not super accurate? The visual lines I mean. It's a WIP feature by the developer of the mod (that I turned on out of curiosity and was just too lazy to turn it back off) anyway.

And thank you, I am glad you like my plane design. I had something similar in configuration and ten tonnes lighter, and it was an Apollo styled lander. But, I couldn't get it to work because of some really annoying bug. Pretty frustrated I couldn't get it to work because I wanted to hit the score board on the "lighter" end of the challenge.

Hi.

Great job.

Makes me feel like I play badly.

I am impressed enough to make some experimentation on this challenge. I can't compete.....Yet. Not for a while

Question-Comment.

Maybe I missed or misread something but...

The plates are for the landing legs. Why do you have landing legs at all?

I dumped them a good while ago.

I land on engines, fuel tanks and the other day on the heat shield (Top mounted dual Twich engine), all the time. Just watch the touchdown speed. No?

I just checked for the eck of it and in order of size for the legs the impact and G resistance are:

10m/s&50G, 12m/s&50G, 12m/s&50G

The Nerv Atomic Engine is 12m/s&50G.

 

ME

Edited by Martian Emigrant

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6 hours ago, hazard-ish said:

Here it is: my long-awaited submission to this challenge! When I started it I didn't know this forum post existed but it should be eligible anyway. So much work went into this, from the cars to writing custom settings for my visual mods to planning and executing the 12 gravity assists used throughout! I hope you enjoy! 

 

Well there isn't anything I can see wrong with this.. I saw there was a bug where the ion engine didn't shut off when it ran out of EC but that doesn't matter. Loved the landing gear on the craft and that glider was lit!

Awesome work, Hazard-ish. I'll put your name at the top of the leaderboard later. :) 

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1 hour ago, Firemetal said:

 

Well there isn't anything I can see wrong with this.. I saw there was a bug where the ion engine didn't shut off when it ran out of EC but that doesn't matter. Loved the landing gear on the craft and that glider was lit!

Awesome work, Hazard-ish. I'll put your name at the top of the leaderboard later. :) 

Ah, the ion engine did run out of charge properly. But since there was still some solar power and an RTG, electricity was constantly being generated so keeping the throttle up still provided some force. The engine was essentially fluctuating between 0kN and 2kN extremely quickly - if you look at the fuel gauges, when the electricity reaches 0, xenon use also decreases despite not touching the throttle control. :)

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In the good old days, Bill put this together:

The laws of fizzics have changed since then, so sadly this is just a reminiscence of the Old Glory Days.

 

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On 9/30/2016 at 0:29 AM, hazard-ish said:

Here it is

Nice work, so much to like!

Spoiler

Landing a segway at 400 km/h

was a surprise, great use of stock controls, nice camera work, the Eeloo geysers looked great (are they stock? do I not have ground cluter on or something? it seemed to have some kind of atmos blur also)

 

Edited by DBowman

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Interesting challenge! I'll have to try it. But, yeah, @hazard-ish won for sure. Also, @hazard-ish, wouldn't the Kerbal waiting in the car back on Kerbin for like 80 years get incredibly bored?

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Derp I didn't even notice Hazardish had already posted. Just saw the leaderboard and saw he wasn't on there and was like "What???". :P

Edited by EpicSpaceTroll139
Autocorrect

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1 hour ago, EpicSpaceTroll139 said:

Derp I didn't even notice Hazardous had already posted. Just saw the leaderboard and saw he wasn't on there and was like "What???". :P

Yeah, could someone put me on the leader-board, please? :)

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@hazard-ish that is amazing. I love the video. Is there a trick to planning all of your gravity assists? Or is it just place PE/AP on the orbit and wait until you have a hit?

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On 10/3/2016 at 0:43 PM, hazard-ish said:

Yeah, could someone put me on the leader-board, please? :)

oh shoot sorry. I was going to do that and I forgot. I will do it today. I promise.

Sorry again!

Fire

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Hi.

Finally.

Here is my entry.

http://imgur.com/a/xLLwB

42.973t in 69 parts. Took jeb 24 years and 5 days. I don't know how many (Time...Not years) for me. I am not doing this again. But I did learn a lot.

 

 

 

It's a long post....But it took me a long time to meet this challenge and you have to suffer.

Tiss all.

 

 

 

The highlights:

Left direct to Eeloo.

9KtXNne.png

DgmOVcb.png

This is the unfaired M.U.L.E. (Miniature Undersized Lander Eeloo) with it's patented "Mach Spike".

LO1HwGa.png

 

OBLv8nD.png

URWJyZo.png

Awf0gTc.png

Landed a small lander (The M.U.L.E.).

m8Flieb.png

Quote

Jeb: Why is there an antenna again?

Me: So we can find you in the snow.

Jeb: Alright!

9GVlOs7.png

Under exposed mission flag (Sun is weak and directly overhead).

Z4JwU8y.png

Jeb walked part of the way back....That was planned. (Now I know why I did so many orbital rescues)

tsZbSbQ.png

HowV2KM.png

45yc5zp.png

y1PZtXj.png

PwvAFZv.png

mk3rrsZ.png

Tried to go straight to Kerbin....Come in with over 9000 m/s....So I had to learn to do gravity braking....I did try other means like trying again with Ions. Deleted comment. I am waiting for "Torch-Ship" before I come back here.

Back to highlights:

Went to Jool.

DIHziOu.png

q076nV9.png

emJ44EE.png

Went to Jool again.

WXShWo5.png

IamMwXD.png

RR0cZ2S.png

12ryT3U.png

ZqDsISp.png

Kerbin encounter.

TnwyqJC.png

2czP0iq.png

All this so cheap I can now brake and stay in Kerbin SOI. I initially thought I would have to do a few more encounters.

DH2gcSH.png

Stopped the ship in orbit around Kerbin.

F4OPqK1.png

Lowered the apoapsis.

mqazdbl.png

K4S0Ud4.png

Aero-Braked twice. I have dived from Minmus (Which is higher) and lived before...But I wasn't willing to find a good braking altitude. Twice is good.

NEL9ADC.png

WWUnFET.png

yeYOfcu.png

6YT0FRY.png

Water landing.

xqTsn4T.png

PvrliBQ.png

A6PFQpC.png

 

Funny story.

Jeb had to get out and push the ship. The batteries were depleted.  Wrong orientation for years at the time will do that.

dQ2oANG.png

 

Conclusion:

I learned a lot.

On ship design, propulsion, gravity (Still unclear on most of it....Magic) and more.

Thank you for the challenge but I am not doing this again....Not for a long time....We'll see....Not now anyway. Have to play with 1.2 first.

:wink:

 

ME

Edited by Martian Emigrant

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