Orbital station contracts - Tourists for crew count?, Docked parts

[Chris_Pi]

A question about using tourists to fill out the Kerbal count on orbital stations contracts - Do they count towards the total for Kerbals not needing specific skills? I've got both Kerbin and Mun station contracts available, And the Mun one needs 9 kerbals aboard. As it happens there's also contracts for flyby/orbit for as many tourists. Can I fill seats with them to complete the contract? I'll need some actual crew, but not that many.

Docking - I may or may not have anything but the Clamp-o-tron jr. available for a docking port. Since that won't transfer crew and tourists can't EVA can the contracts be completed by just docking the tourist-carrier to a station that otherwise meets requirements? The contracts are for two different companies and I'd like to use the same bunch of tourists to complete both.

[Aegolius13]

Are you sure it's actually asking for kerbals to be aboard?  Generally the space station contracts just require capacity to hold the specified number of kerbals, whether or not they are actually onboard.  So you can potentially fulfill these contracts even with an unmanned craft, as long as it has passengers on board.

Sometimes it does ask for a specific type of kerbal to be onboard, like an engineer.  Obviously a tourist would not work for another class, but that doesn't appear to be the contract you have.

Also note that if you dock two craft, the capacities are combined for these contracts.  It counts the combination as a single craft.  So there is no need to actually transfer or any kerbals, even on contracts that require engineers or whatnot.  This even works if you dock with the Claw.

[Aegolius13]

One other note.  If a contract asks you to build a NEW station, you might not be able to complete it by docking craft built before the contract is accepted.  But for contracts asking to EXPAND an existing station, you can generally use older stuff.  I can often complete these expansion contracts just by docking a shuttle at the station in question.

[Chris_Pi]

1 hour ago, Aegolius13 said:

Are you sure it's actually asking for kerbals to be aboard?  Generally the space station contracts just require capacity to hold the specified number of kerbals, whether or not they are actually onboard.  So you can potentially fulfill these contracts even with an unmanned craft, as long as it has passengers on board

Right from the contract: "Have a facility supporting at least six kerbals" Exact same phrasing in both.

Reads to me like they're counting actual occupants. If it was just empty seats "capable of supporting" would have been there I think.

19 minutes ago, Aegolius13 said:

One other note.  If a contract asks you to build a NEW station, you might not be able to complete it by docking craft built before the contract is accepted.  But for contracts asking to EXPAND an existing station, you can generally use older stuff.  I can often complete these expansion contracts just by docking a shuttle at the station in question.

Both contracts need new stations, Planning on building and launching everything that will docked after accepting. I'm assuming "Built for" means that company's flag on the station, which is different for each. Not sure if docking a third part to both at different times is going to end up looking like the assembly (Station+tourist ship) is built for the right company or not.

[bewing]

You certainly don't need the flag. Your accounting department just tells the company that it was built for them and they pay.

And I'm on the fence about the "supporting" verbiage. I suspect it would take empty seats. But tourists do count for filling seats. Tourists are basically your employees until their contract is completed.

[FancyMouse]

I always send empty stations to complete stock contracts.

[Plusck]

1 hour ago, Chris_Pi said:

Right from the contract: "Have a facility supporting at least six kerbals" Exact same phrasing in both.

Absolutely 100% sure that you don't need any Kerbals on board for that contract.

It needs to "support" six Kerbals so it needs habitable space for 6 Kerbals (pods, cans, cabins, anything other than command seats). You most definitely don't need any of those spaces to be occupied.

[Chris_Pi]

Thanks everyone - Sounds like this is about as simple as it could get. I'll have the tourists onboard, But there's over a million credits in those Mun flyby/orbit contracts so they're going up anyways. Nice to have their ship double as the needed hab space for the stations.

[Plusck]

1 hour ago, Chris_Pi said:

Both contracts need new stations, Planning on building and launching everything that will docked after accepting. I'm assuming "Built for" means that company's flag on the station, which is different for each. Not sure if docking a third part to both at different times is going to end up looking like the assembly (Station+tourist ship) is built for the right company or not.

This again highlights the issue of contract wording, because there are some people who find contracts to be unnecessarily unclear. And your post demonstrates that it is certainly unclear for some.

I'd be tempted to go into a full philosophical discussion about language and the varying meaning of words as a subjective appropriation of meaning even while it aims for universality... but although fascinating is probably not the place for that.

In fact, the "built for" requirement is far less interesting that you have interpreted it to be. All it requires is that you start building the space station or outpost after you accepted the contract.

If you accept the contract then launch a ship, then the ship can be construed as being built "for" the contract. If you launched it beforehand, then it cannot ever be construed as being "for" the contract. In a sense, this is lawyerly correct since it comes down to a question of proof. The flag is irrelevant (since it could, in real life, be repainted). The only proof that is possible is negative proof: the impossibility of intent by launching something before the contract was accepted. Therefore the thing that determines your intent is when you launched the ship, therefore the thing that the game looks at is the incremental number of the launch. If you accept the contract after 20 launches, then launch number 21 and up can be interpreted as being "for" that contract.

 

Please note that this is an unofficial interpretation of KSP contract law. There is no established bar, rules on professional ethics, kerbal-attorney privilege, dispute-resolution mechanism or fee/fund payment system. Any dispute arising out of or in connection with the above interpretation shall be settled under the Rules of Arbitration of the KSC (as adopted from time to time), by one or more arbitrators appointed in accordance with said Rules. The seat of the arbitration shall be KSC.