CobaltWolf

[1.2.1] Mini Sample Return Capsule - Bring your experiments home safe! (v1.2 9/Nov/2016)

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This is SO COOL! I've been wrangling with how to integrate the Mobile Labs and still return a sample to KSC. I'm picturing bases or motherships with a rack of your little return modules that they can load up with science and launch for Kerbin.

Idea for a 3rd part: you need to grab 2 copies of each experiment with your lander with Mobile Labs - 1 to convert to Data and the 2nd to send to KSC. What about adding a low profile 1meter sample storage container that could attach to the bottom of a 1 man capsule or the top of a 3 man capsule that you could store that 2nd copy of the experiment in?

Anyway, great work. if you have time, it would be great if this part were added

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I agree, for something like this, a built-in 200km or 300km RT antenna would not be overkill.

I haven't played with this yet, but I'd probably mod it in my game to have a 300km RT range, plus a built in MechJeb AR202 thingy (with a bit of additional cost to account for that).

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On 7/10/2016 at 3:14 PM, Deimos Rast said:

Here be the patches. And a few more comments.

  • The remote tech patch is standard stuff, 3000m omni antenna unlocked at unmmanedTech. I would honestly boost it, since where are you going to put an antenna on this guy? Unless you want to stick a DP-10 in the Cargo Hold.
  • The Ablator + Cargo Bay combo is a bit...awkward. Cargo bays get ModuleConductionMultiplier generally, which your's has, but doesn't that affect the Ablator as well? As is, conceptually, the entire cargo bay is encased in an super ablative substance, not just the bottom. I took one out for an orbital spin to test the parachute, and the bottom doesn't glow, but the cargo bay does, which seemed odd. I would drop the ablator down significantly, as it weighs a lot for such a bitsy part. I personally find the stock ablators rather dense as is, and I think your's is even denser (assuming I'm reading things right, and a test seemed to confirm it).

Cheers.

KIS

RealChute

RemoteTech

SciBox

Thanks! The next update will incorporate several of those configs (although I just integrated the SciBox config into the main file, since I intended to have one in there, and completely forgot :) ).

That said, I also tuned the KAS storage space WAY down to 50 liters and four parts, since there just plain isn't that much space in there.

Also, the next update should hopefully fix the bug I noticed..

gr1s7cb.jpg

:blush:

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Do you have any pictures showing this mounted on a mothership?  I'm wondering if it will fit inside some of the 2.5m service bays and how much of an engine pack it would need to get back home from <250km Kerbin orbits.

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Small request: Can you add some KIS storage-space inside for return of, say, some of the D-Magic Orbital Science parts that give better science-rewards if physically returned to Kerbin than one would earn by simply transmitting the science-results back by radio? Stuff like the Science Micro, the Micro Goo Container, the Anomaly Scanner (which in its description says, "For best results, bring back to KSC for examination"), the eXoKerbalCoreDrill, and the Solar Particle Collector, for example.

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5 hours ago, AlbertKermin said:

Thanks! The next update will incorporate several of those configs (although I just integrated the SciBox config into the main file, since I intended to have one in there, and completely forgot :) ).

That said, I also tuned the KAS storage space WAY down to 50 liters and four parts, since there just plain isn't that much space in there.

Also, the next update should hopefully fix the bug I noticed..

 

50, 500, what's a zero or two between friends? Probably right. And I hope you mean KIS storage, as it hasn't been "KAS storage" in a while there old timer:wink:. The bug is what, buoyancy? Probably too much Abbylator :).

 

1 hour ago, StevieC said:

Small request: Can you add some KIS storage-space inside for return of, say, some of the D-Magic Orbital Science parts that give better science-rewards if physically returned to Kerbin than one would earn by simply transmitting the science-results back by radio? Stuff like the Science Micro, the Micro Goo Container, the Anomaly Scanner (which in its description says, "For best results, bring back to KSC for examination"), the eXoKerbalCoreDrill, and the Solar Particle Collector, for example.

already submitted ALL THE PATCHES FOR ALL THE THINGS, read back a page...I know this thread is massive:D. But if you have any other ideas, I'm game to have a crack at it.

Edited by Deimos Rast

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Would be cool to use in conjunction with Tarsier science data drives.

Very cute capsule, thanks!

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8 hours ago, WuphonsReach said:

Do you have any pictures showing this mounted on a mothership?  I'm wondering if it will fit inside some of the 2.5m service bays and how much of an engine pack it would need to get back home from <250km Kerbin orbits.

eSC01oF.jpg

Yep, you can pack six of them into a 2.5m service bay!

They're fairly light, so from a <250km orbit, it shouldn't need more than a .625 monoprop tank and an engine (or RCS, or RLA stockalike engine).

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okay but having the KIS space only be 50 liters means that the Solar Particle Collector from DMagic won't fit (it's slightly more than 192 liters, but it is a 0.625m diameter part), and the other parts that could benefit (the Science Micro, the Mini Goo Container, the Anomaly Scanner, and the eXoKerbolCoreDrill which are 49 liters, 8 liters, 27 liters, and 37 liters respectively) are limited in terms of how many can fit into 50 liters of volume at a time

 

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@TheReadPanda just downloaded and tried this parts-pack in his stream and he has a few complaints, specifically, that the built-in electrical-charge isn't enough to keep the capsule 'alive' long enough to deploy the chutes, also it's heavier than water so buoyancy and electric charge need adjustment

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2 hours ago, StevieC said:

okay but having the KIS space only be 50 liters means that the Solar Particle Collector from DMagic won't fit (it's slightly more than 192 liters, but it is a 0.625m diameter part), and the other parts that could benefit (the Science Micro, the Mini Goo Container, the Anomaly Scanner, and the eXoKerbolCoreDrill which are 49 liters, 8 liters, 27 liters, and 37 liters respectively) are limited in terms of how many can fit into 50 liters of volume at a time

You're supposed to just put the experiments in the cargo bay, not the KIS storage. Some of those experiments are bigger than the entire return capsule! We are patching it so the capsule can hold science data (aka samples) which should be more than enough. If you have a kerbal there that can put it in the KIS storage then you can just transfer the science data and get the same full return.

1 hour ago, StevieC said:

@TheReadPanda just downloaded and tried this parts-pack in his stream and he has a few complaints, specifically, that the built-in electrical-charge isn't enough to keep the capsule 'alive' long enough to deploy the chutes, also it's heavier than water so buoyancy and electric charge need adjustment

Buoyancy is already being looked at.

What do you mean electric charge runs out? Is he using RemoteTech? Is he spamming the reaction wheels the whole time? The reaction wheels probably need to get nerfed anyway, since I included the RCS for control during reentry.

36 minutes ago, Gaiiden said:

if a bouyancy change is made I vote make it an optional patch and instead ppl should use floats

I think it should be the opposite way around - perhaps make them use floats if that is installed. Though I'm not sure where you'd put them.

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On antennas: How about an AntennaRange patch?  (For similar reasons as the RemoteTech - although it's not on by default in AntennaRange, it is possible that people will need an antenna to control the ship.)

I'd just copy over the stats from the standard small antenna myself; no need to get fancy.  :wink:

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Hey,

great work!

Some suggestions about redesigning the top part:

1. Change of the very top to be a shrouded mini (0.625m compatible) docking port

2. Add two more RCS thrusters (to be able to push "aft" with RCS build aid), so the 120m/s monoprop deltaV can be used for a "deorbit" from low kerbin orbit (before turning the capsule around for reentry)

3. The parachute can easily come out of the side, would not matter when it lands a little skewed to one direction, as long as it comes out near the top of the vessel.

4. Increase battery to at least 100EC (equivalent to 5kg, instead of the current 30EC/1.5kg) or better 120EC.

That would drastically increase versatility. Picture a 0.625m probe tug with docking port jr at the top, which brings the return capsule from eg Mun to Kerbin orbit. Then the capsule undocks, lowers its peri with the monoprop, before turning for reentry. And then a new mission brings up a new capsule, which redocks with the tug, which then moves it to Minmus!

 

And about the bottom part:

Please make the 0.625m heat shield a seperate part, thus it becomes much more useful even when used without the other parts. Stock KSP is really lacking such a 0.625m heat shield!

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3 hours ago, Yemo said:

Hey,

great work!

Some suggestions about redesigning the top part:

1. Change of the very top to be a shrouded mini (0.625m compatible) docking port

2. Add two more RCS thrusters (to be able to push "aft" with RCS build aid), so the 120m/s monoprop deltaV can be used for a "deorbit" from low kerbin orbit (before turning the capsule around for reentry)

3. The parachute can easily come out of the side, would not matter when it lands a little skewed to one direction, as long as it comes out near the top of the vessel.

4. Increase battery to at least 100EC (equivalent to 5kg, instead of the current 30EC/1.5kg) or better 120EC.

That would drastically increase versatility. Picture a 0.625m probe tug with docking port jr at the top, which brings the return capsule from eg Mun to Kerbin orbit. Then the capsule undocks, lowers its peri with the monoprop, before turning for reentry. And then a new mission brings up a new capsule, which redocks with the tug, which then moves it to Minmus!

 

And about the bottom part:

Please make the 0.625m heat shield a seperate part, thus it becomes much more useful even when used without the other parts. Stock KSP is really lacking such a 0.625m heat shield!

1. The parachute has an awful lot of functionality for one .625 meter part as-is. You could simply stick a decoupler beneath it, and a .625 docking port below that.

2. You can just turn the whole thing sideways, and burn laterally. It's not as efficent, but it should be enough to affect your orbit somewhat.

3. We had enough trouble with the parachute, thanks. No plans to alter it in any way!!! :0.0:

4. I'm already planning to modify the remotetech patch to increase the available battery amount.

 

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@AlbertKermin

Hm, I understand.

Though 2 seems a bit strange, as the current mono thrusters only provide attitude control anyway, which is a bit redundant since a reaction wheel is built in as well.

2 more thrusters like this would imho provide a lot more functionality for the mono without much effort, complicated side-way burning or doubling part count:

UfiiraT.jpg

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5 hours ago, CobaltWolf said:

I think it should be the opposite way around - perhaps make them use floats if that is installed. Though I'm not sure where you'd put them.

They look radially attachable so sticking one on the flat cap at the top should do the job and not get burned off. I dunno, but I wasn't sure if the fact that they sink was a design oversight on your part on the configs or something you meant for the user to solve. I assumed the latter

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Re: floats, @sumghai has an inflatable parts plugin for his SDHI service-module-system's heat-shield that attaches to the stock 3-seat Mk1-2 command-capsule. Maybe you could ask them about that and see if it'd be suitable for the type of buoyancy you're wanting, since the inflatable floats for the SDHI heat-shield won't inflate if you touch down on dry-land; they only inflate if you splash down in water.

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4 hours ago, StevieC said:

Re: floats, @sumghai has an inflatable parts plugin for his SDHI service-module-system's heat-shield that attaches to the stock 3-seat Mk1-2 command-capsule. Maybe you could ask them about that and see if it'd be suitable for the type of buoyancy you're wanting, since the inflatable floats for the SDHI heat-shield won't inflate if you touch down on dry-land; they only inflate if you splash down in water.

Just a heads up that the plugin (authored by the awesome @Starwaster) is still in the experimental stages.

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I'm thinking that, rather that messing around with monopropellant, it would be possible to make a very small 0.625m SRB that would give one of these enough of a kick to start re-entry from a 100km orbit (number plucked from thin air). I think you can adjust the thrust and fuel load on an SRB, so the 100% levels could be OK for de-orbiting a Mk1 capsule, and it would be dialled down to use in this role. Or you could use some sort of adaptor/decoupler part to mount a triplet of these small SRBs for something similar to a Mercury or Gemini.

And there might be other uses for such an SRB, similar to a seperatron, but not radially attached, maybe an apogee-kick motor for an orbiter But that could start involving something procedural

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I've been trying to get your auto-generated netkan file working, and it's failing.  It would help if you made the following small changes to your mod:

1.  Use a standard versioning system, consisting of 3 numbers:  0.1.0   for example
2.  Use the KSP-AVC website to generate a .version file and include that in your mod.  Don't forget to keep it up-to-date as you make new releases

Thanks

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14 minutes ago, linuxgurugamer said:

I've been trying to get your auto-generated netkan file working, and it's failing.  It would help if you made the following small changes to your mod:

1.  Use a standard versioning system, consisting of 3 numbers:  0.1.0   for example
2.  Use the KSP-AVC website to generate a .version file and include that in your mod.  Don't forget to keep it up-to-date as you make new releases

Thanks

I'll take a look at it. @AlbertKermin is busy getting the updates tested. I'll try and fix it when we get the new release.

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8 hours ago, CobaltWolf said:

I'll take a look at it. @AlbertKermin is busy getting the updates tested. I'll try and fix it when we get the new release.

@CobaltWolf I just uploaded the update to spacedock. Could you update the OP to indicate the current version is now 1.1 (and credit @Deimos Rast for his help with the module manager configs)?

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2 hours ago, AlbertKermin said:

@CobaltWolf I just uploaded the update to spacedock. Could you update the OP to indicate the current version is now 1.1 (and credit @Deimos Rast for his help with the module manager configs)?

Just got the netkan file accepted, so it should be in CKAN in the next few hours or so

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