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[WIP] Vaguely Realistic


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As superb as KSP is in its stock state, I sometimes feel the need for more of a challenge, so I put forward the mod:

Vaguely Realistic

With this mod I hope to add some challenges to how we play KSP in the stock universe, by applying some of the limitations that our real-life engineers and pilots face, for example:

  • Huge reaction wheel nerf
    • Command Modules will have their reaction wheels removed. This means an RCS system is just about essential for control, unless Jeb fancies using his jetpack
    • Probes cores will retain their reaction wheels, in varying strengths, but their power will be massively reduced. They'll be fine for getting your craft orientated a few minutes before a burn, but for quicker movement, e.g. for a lander, you'll want to bring RCS
  • Engine ignition limits - DONE!
    • Some engines will have a limit on the maximum number of ignitions
    • First stage engines (e.g. Mainsail) will have a single ignition
    • Service module engines (e.g. LV-909) will have many, but limited, ignitions e.g. 50 (this figure was taken from the rated restarts of the Apollo Service Module engine)
    • Monopropellant and what would be hypergolic engines (e.g. LV-1R) will have unlimited ignitions, as they don't actually need igniters!
    • Currently supports:
      • Stock/Squad Engines
      • Ven's Stock Revamp Engines
  • Solid rocket booster thrust curves
    • SRBs will have a thrust curve so thrust tails off as propellant is depleted

Any feedback is greatly appreciated, this will be my first major mod (outside of ModuleManager-only patches). Check back soon for updates!

 

I've broken out my Engine Ignition functionality in to a separate mod. Its thread is here:

 

Edited by nadseh
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7 minutes ago, nadseh said:

As superb as KSP is in its stock state, I sometimes feel the need for more of a challenge, so I put forward the mod:

Vaguely Realistic

With this mod I hope to add some challenges to how we play KSP in the stock universe, by applying some of the limitations that our real-life engineers and pilots face, for example:

  • Huge reaction wheel nerf
    • Reaction wheels will have their torque decay over time
    • Torque can be restored by de-saturating the wheels, e.g. using RCS
    • Vessel mass will be a major factor in how quickly your wheels become saturated
    • Vessels such as Command Modules with a Service Module (like the Apollo CM/SM) will pretty much require RCS to be usable in any way
  • Engine ignition limits
    • Some engines will have a limit on the maximum number of ignitions
    • First stage engines (e.g. Mainsail) will have a single ignition
    • Service module engines (e.g. LV-909) will have many, but limited, ignitions e.g. 20
    • Monopropellant and what would be hypergolic engines (e.g. LV-1R) will have unlimited ignitions, as they don't actually need igniters!
  • Solid rocket booster thrust curves
    • SRBs will have a thrust curve so thrust tails off as propellant is depleted

Any feedback is greatly appreciated, this will be my first major mod (outside of ModuleManager-only patches). Check back soon for updates!

im excited too see how this progresses, seems like the perfect inbetween with realism overhaul and stock

 

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Finally got around to starting on this! For those that are interested, engine ignition limits are now coded and working. Currently, the configs (loaded using ModuleManager) support just the Mainsail and LV-1R, although I will populate these for all engines soon.

Source is available here: https://github.com/jamesharling/VaguelyRealistic

Compile and use if you are up for a bit of testing!

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I suggest another name for your mode, its too vague. perhaps KSP Realism Improvements ...

Note that I like this mode to be independant from Realsim Overhaul. Not everyone like the full Realsim Overhaul  package, some people like the middle ground between Stock KSP and Hardcore Realsim Overhaul

Edited by FreeThinker
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If you can pull this off, it will be a most welcome "go-in-between" stock and RSS/RO.

Especially this stuff about SRB thrust curves has me excited!

If I may add something to the wish list, please provide support for mod engines as well.

Keep up the good work! :)

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Another thing you might be interested in is the SSTU mod, specifically that it uses four types of fuels, LFO for kerosene, and mono propellant, and adds LH2 for long burning upper stages, and hyperbolic bipropellant. I like that it covers the main fuel types without forcing a full chemistry lesson. (Though to be honest I kinda like the chemistry lesson). Looking forward to see what you come up with!

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2 hours ago, Kartoffelkuchen said:

Great idea, looking forward to this! :)

Keep in mind, stock now supports thrust curves (not only for SRBs, also for liquid fuel engines and RCS to simulate rcs tank pressure dropping), so you don't need to code that. :)

I noticed that stock supports what looks like efficiency curves, I think they're called atmospheric curves in the cfgs? Is that what you mean?

9 minutes ago, Nightside said:

Another thing you might be interested in is the SSTU mod, specifically that it uses four types of fuels, LFO for kerosene, and mono propellant, and adds LH2 for long burning upper stages, and hyperbolic bipropellant. I like that it covers the main fuel types without forcing a full chemistry lesson. (Though to be honest I kinda like the chemistry lesson). Looking forward to see what you come up with!

I wasn't planning on going as far as this. I'm a big fan of the RealFuels mod (essential for RSS universe sizes) but it does such a good job that I'm not sure I can compete! Having said that, keeping things stockalike and simple (my mod's aim), an equivalent for LH2, e.g. "Cryogenic Fuel" instead of the usual "Liquid Fuel" might be a nice idea. I'll have a think.

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2 hours ago, nadseh said:

I noticed that stock supports what looks like efficiency curves, I think they're called atmospheric curves in the cfgs? Is that what you mean?

Nope - since KSP 1.1 you can actually do real thrustCurves, not atmosphereCurves which define the Isp at various atmospheric pressures.

To use, you need to add "useThrustCurve = True" to your engine module. Then, under the atmosphereCurve, you put your thrustCurve.

A thrustCurve for normal SRB's looks like this:

thrustCurve

{

key = 1 1 // 100% propellant, 100% (thrust) fuelFlow

key = 0 1 // 0% propellant, 100% (thrust) fuelFlow

}

(Since the fuelFlow doesn't change)

 

Now, if you want a custom thrust Curve, just insert whatever you like, for example

thrustCurve

{

key = 1 0.8 // 100% propellant, 80% fuelFlow

key = 0.8 1 // 80% propellant, 100% fuelFlow

key = 0.3 1 // 30% propellant, 100% fuelFlow

key = 0.05 0.75 // 5% propellant, 75% fuelFlow

key = 0 0.2 // 0% propellant, 20% fuelFlow

}

Thrust first increases, then keeps at 100%, then goes slowly down to 75% at the end of the burn and then rapidly decreases to 20% fuelFlow before cutoff.

Try it out it's really cool :)

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1 hour ago, Kartoffelkuchen said:

I just posted how to do a thrust Curve above? ^-^

I know Jso uses a little applet that someone on these forums made, that lets you create the curves using a GUI then spits out the code you need. Lets you do fun (and necessary for realistic curves!) things with the bezier tangents.

Edited by CobaltWolf
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On 20/07/2016 at 11:36 PM, nadseh said:

Finally got around to starting on this! For those that are interested, engine ignition limits are now coded and working. Currently, the configs (loaded using ModuleManager) support just the Mainsail and LV-1R, although I will populate these for all engines soon.

Source is available here: https://github.com/jamesharling/VaguelyRealistic

Compile and use if you are up for a bit of testing!

I've broken this part of the mod out in to a separate mod. I've made a new thread for this; downloads and info here:

 

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 7/21/2016 at 0:08 PM, Kartoffelkuchen said:

Nope - since KSP 1.1 you can actually do real thrustCurves, not atmosphereCurves which define the Isp at various atmospheric pressures.

To use, you need to add "useThrustCurve = True" to your engine module. Then, under the atmosphereCurve, you put your thrustCurve.

A thrustCurve for normal SRB's looks like this:

thrustCurve

{

key = 1 1 // 100% propellant, 100% (thrust) fuelFlow

key = 0 1 // 0% propellant, 100% (thrust) fuelFlow

}

(Since the fuelFlow doesn't change)

 

Now, if you want a custom thrust Curve, just insert whatever you like, for example

thrustCurve

{

key = 1 0.8 // 100% propellant, 80% fuelFlow

key = 0.8 1 // 80% propellant, 100% fuelFlow

key = 0.3 1 // 30% propellant, 100% fuelFlow

key = 0.05 0.75 // 5% propellant, 75% fuelFlow

key = 0 0.2 // 0% propellant, 20% fuelFlow

}

Thrust first increases, then keeps at 100%, then goes slowly down to 75% at the end of the burn and then rapidly decreases to 20% fuelFlow before cutoff.

Try it out it's really cool :)

I made a MM patch to apply a thrust curve to all SRBs:

@PART[*]:HAS[@MODULE[ModuleEngines*]]:FINAL
{
	@MODULE[ModuleEngines*]:HAS[#EngineType[SolidBooster]]
	{
		useThrustCurve = True

		thrustCurve
		{
			key = 1 0.8 // 100% propellant, 80% fuelFlow
			key = 0.8 1 // 80% propellant, 100% fuelFlow
			key = 0.3 1 // 30% propellant, 100% fuelFlow
			key = 0.15 0.75 // 15% propellant, 75% fuelFlow
			key = 0.05 0.2 // 5% propellant, 20% fuelFlow
		}
	}
}

 

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  • 8 months later...
On 12/07/2016 at 7:55 PM, nadseh said:

Huge reaction wheel nerf

  • Command Modules will have their reaction wheels removed. This means an RCS system is just about essential for control, unless Jeb fancies using his jetpack
  • Probes cores will retain their reaction wheels, in varying strengths, but their power will be massively reduced. They'll be fine for getting your craft orientated a few minutes before a burn, but for quicker movement, e.g. for a lander, you'll want to bring RCS

May I suggest the bundling of my MandatoryRCS plugin ?

 

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