[WIP] Vaguely Realistic

nadseh · July 12, 2016

As superb as KSP is in its stock state, I sometimes feel the need for more of a challenge, so I put forward the mod:

Vaguely Realistic

With this mod I hope to add some challenges to how we play KSP in the stock universe, by applying some of the limitations that our real-life engineers and pilots face, for example:

Huge reaction wheel nerf
- Command Modules will have their reaction wheels removed. This means an RCS system is just about essential for control, unless Jeb fancies using his jetpack
- Probes cores will retain their reaction wheels, in varying strengths, but their power will be massively reduced. They'll be fine for getting your craft orientated a few minutes before a burn, but for quicker movement, e.g. for a lander, you'll want to bring RCS
Engine ignition limits - DONE!
- Some engines will have a limit on the maximum number of ignitions
- First stage engines (e.g. Mainsail) will have a single ignition
- Service module engines (e.g. LV-909) will have many, but limited, ignitions e.g. 50 (this figure was taken from the rated restarts of the Apollo Service Module engine)
- Monopropellant and what would be hypergolic engines (e.g. LV-1R) will have unlimited ignitions, as they don't actually need igniters!
- Currently supports:
  - Stock/Squad Engines
  - Ven's Stock Revamp Engines
Solid rocket booster thrust curves
- SRBs will have a thrust curve so thrust tails off as propellant is depleted

Any feedback is greatly appreciated, this will be my first major mod (outside of ModuleManager-only patches). Check back soon for updates!

I've broken out my Engine Ignition functionality in to a separate mod. Its thread is here:

Edited April 20, 2017 by nadseh

123nick · July 12, 2016

7 minutes ago, nadseh said:

As superb as KSP is in its stock state, I sometimes feel the need for more of a challenge, so I put forward the mod:

Vaguely Realistic

With this mod I hope to add some challenges to how we play KSP in the stock universe, by applying some of the limitations that our real-life engineers and pilots face, for example:

Huge reaction wheel nerf
Reaction wheels will have their torque decay over time

Torque can be restored by de-saturating the wheels, e.g. using RCS

Vessel mass will be a major factor in how quickly your wheels become saturated

Vessels such as Command Modules with a Service Module (like the Apollo CM/SM) will pretty much require RCS to be usable in any way

Engine ignition limits
Some engines will have a limit on the maximum number of ignitions

First stage engines (e.g. Mainsail) will have a single ignition

Service module engines (e.g. LV-909) will have many, but limited, ignitions e.g. 20

Monopropellant and what would be hypergolic engines (e.g. LV-1R) will have unlimited ignitions, as they don't actually need igniters!

Solid rocket booster thrust curves
SRBs will have a thrust curve so thrust tails off as propellant is depleted

Any feedback is greatly appreciated, this will be my first major mod (outside of ModuleManager-only patches). Check back soon for updates!

im excited too see how this progresses, seems like the perfect inbetween with realism overhaul and stock

Nansuchao · July 12, 2016

This seems a very good idea, similar to what Realism Overhaul does in RSS. If you can balance this against stock, you've made the magic.

nadseh · July 20, 2016

Finally got around to starting on this! For those that are interested, engine ignition limits are now coded and working. Currently, the configs (loaded using ModuleManager) support just the Mainsail and LV-1R, although I will populate these for all engines soon.

Source is available here: https://github.com/jamesharling/VaguelyRealistic

Compile and use if you are up for a bit of testing!

FreeThinker · July 21, 2016

I suggest another name for your mode, its too vague. perhaps KSP Realism Improvements ...

Note that I like this mode to be independant from Realsim Overhaul. Not everyone like the full Realsim Overhaul package, some people like the middle ground between Stock KSP and Hardcore Realsim Overhaul

Edited July 21, 2016 by FreeThinker

StarStreak2109 · July 21, 2016

If you can pull this off, it will be a most welcome "go-in-between" stock and RSS/RO.

Especially this stuff about SRB thrust curves has me excited!

If I may add something to the wish list, please provide support for mod engines as well.

Keep up the good work!

Kartoffelkuchen · July 21, 2016

Great idea, looking forward to this!

Keep in mind, stock now supports thrust curves (not only for SRBs, also for liquid fuel engines and RCS to simulate rcs tank pressure dropping), so you don't need to code that.

Nightside · July 21, 2016

Another thing you might be interested in is the SSTU mod, specifically that it uses four types of fuels, LFO for kerosene, and mono propellant, and adds LH2 for long burning upper stages, and hyperbolic bipropellant. I like that it covers the main fuel types without forcing a full chemistry lesson. (Though to be honest I kinda like the chemistry lesson). Looking forward to see what you come up with!

nadseh · July 21, 2016

2 hours ago, Kartoffelkuchen said:

Great idea, looking forward to this!

Keep in mind, stock now supports thrust curves (not only for SRBs, also for liquid fuel engines and RCS to simulate rcs tank pressure dropping), so you don't need to code that.

I noticed that stock supports what looks like efficiency curves, I think they're called atmospheric curves in the cfgs? Is that what you mean?

9 minutes ago, Nightside said:

Another thing you might be interested in is the SSTU mod, specifically that it uses four types of fuels, LFO for kerosene, and mono propellant, and adds LH2 for long burning upper stages, and hyperbolic bipropellant. I like that it covers the main fuel types without forcing a full chemistry lesson. (Though to be honest I kinda like the chemistry lesson). Looking forward to see what you come up with!

I wasn't planning on going as far as this. I'm a big fan of the RealFuels mod (essential for RSS universe sizes) but it does such a good job that I'm not sure I can compete! Having said that, keeping things stockalike and simple (my mod's aim), an equivalent for LH2, e.g. "Cryogenic Fuel" instead of the usual "Liquid Fuel" might be a nice idea. I'll have a think.

Kartoffelkuchen · July 21, 2016

2 hours ago, nadseh said:

I noticed that stock supports what looks like efficiency curves, I think they're called atmospheric curves in the cfgs? Is that what you mean?

Nope - since KSP 1.1 you can actually do real thrustCurves, not atmosphereCurves which define the Isp at various atmospheric pressures.

To use, you need to add "useThrustCurve = True" to your engine module. Then, under the atmosphereCurve, you put your thrustCurve.

A thrustCurve for normal SRB's looks like this:

thrustCurve

{

key = 1 1 // 100% propellant, 100% (thrust) fuelFlow

key = 0 1 // 0% propellant, 100% (thrust) fuelFlow

}

(Since the fuelFlow doesn't change)

Now, if you want a custom thrust Curve, just insert whatever you like, for example

thrustCurve

{

key = 1 0.8 // 100% propellant, 80% fuelFlow

key = 0.8 1 // 80% propellant, 100% fuelFlow

key = 0.3 1 // 30% propellant, 100% fuelFlow

key = 0.05 0.75 // 5% propellant, 75% fuelFlow

key = 0 0.2 // 0% propellant, 20% fuelFlow

}

Thrust first increases, then keeps at 100%, then goes slowly down to 75% at the end of the burn and then rapidly decreases to 20% fuelFlow before cutoff.

Try it out it's really cool

CobaltWolf · July 21, 2016

@Jso can you share/link your crash course in generating thrust curves?

Kartoffelkuchen · July 21, 2016

1 hour ago, CobaltWolf said:

@Jso can you share/link your crash course in generating thrust curves?

I just posted how to do a thrust Curve above? ^-^

CobaltWolf · July 21, 2016

1 hour ago, Kartoffelkuchen said:

I just posted how to do a thrust Curve above? ^-^

I know Jso uses a little applet that someone on these forums made, that lets you create the curves using a GUI then spits out the code you need. Lets you do fun (and necessary for realistic curves!) things with the bezier tangents.

Edited July 21, 2016 by CobaltWolf

Stone Blue · July 21, 2016

3 minutes ago, CobaltWolf said:

I know Jso uses a little applet that someone on these forums made, that lets you create the curves using a GUI then spits out the code you need.

Another awesome KSP thing from @r4m0n :

Unity Float Curve Editor

Edited July 21, 2016 by Stone Blue

Jso · July 21, 2016

I was just using Amazing Curve Editor to visualize the curves.

nadseh · July 22, 2016

On 20/07/2016 at 11:36 PM, nadseh said:

Finally got around to starting on this! For those that are interested, engine ignition limits are now coded and working. Currently, the configs (loaded using ModuleManager) support just the Mainsail and LV-1R, although I will populate these for all engines soon.

Source is available here: https://github.com/jamesharling/VaguelyRealistic

Compile and use if you are up for a bit of testing!

I've broken this part of the mod out in to a separate mod. I've made a new thread for this; downloads and info here:

Acea · July 23, 2016

4 hours ago, nadseh said:

I've broken this part of the mod out in to a separate mod. I've made a new thread for this; downloads and info here:

Yeah I guess we have already seen something almost the same but I'll try this.

Maltman · July 24, 2016

Thanks. I saw this on Ckan. Ill download the ignition limiter

linuxgurugamer · August 6, 2016

On 7/21/2016 at 0:08 PM, Kartoffelkuchen said:

Nope - since KSP 1.1 you can actually do real thrustCurves, not atmosphereCurves which define the Isp at various atmospheric pressures.

To use, you need to add "useThrustCurve = True" to your engine module. Then, under the atmosphereCurve, you put your thrustCurve.

A thrustCurve for normal SRB's looks like this:

thrustCurve

{

key = 1 1 // 100% propellant, 100% (thrust) fuelFlow

key = 0 1 // 0% propellant, 100% (thrust) fuelFlow

}

(Since the fuelFlow doesn't change)

Now, if you want a custom thrust Curve, just insert whatever you like, for example

thrustCurve

{

key = 1 0.8 // 100% propellant, 80% fuelFlow

key = 0.8 1 // 80% propellant, 100% fuelFlow

key = 0.3 1 // 30% propellant, 100% fuelFlow

key = 0.05 0.75 // 5% propellant, 75% fuelFlow

key = 0 0.2 // 0% propellant, 20% fuelFlow

}

Thrust first increases, then keeps at 100%, then goes slowly down to 75% at the end of the burn and then rapidly decreases to 20% fuelFlow before cutoff.

Try it out it's really cool

I made a MM patch to apply a thrust curve to all SRBs:

@PART[*]:HAS[@MODULE[ModuleEngines*]]:FINAL
{
	@MODULE[ModuleEngines*]:HAS[#EngineType[SolidBooster]]
	{
		useThrustCurve = True

		thrustCurve
		{
			key = 1 0.8 // 100% propellant, 80% fuelFlow
			key = 0.8 1 // 80% propellant, 100% fuelFlow
			key = 0.3 1 // 30% propellant, 100% fuelFlow
			key = 0.15 0.75 // 15% propellant, 75% fuelFlow
			key = 0.05 0.2 // 5% propellant, 20% fuelFlow
		}
	}
}

nadseh · April 19, 2017

We're back! Work is still in progress here. I've updated the OP with the new feature set of the mod moving fowards. Hopefully I'll have new builds of Engine Igniter and Vaguely Realistic out soon.

Benjamin Kerman · April 19, 2017

Wow, this looks really cool! I'm glad to see this is back on its feet!

wasml · April 20, 2017

If you get to a point where your looking for more ideas - some different SRB geometries for different thrust profiles about 1/4 the way down the page:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solid-propellant_rocket

Gotmachine · April 20, 2017

On 12/07/2016 at 7:55 PM, nadseh said:

Huge reaction wheel nerf

Command Modules will have their reaction wheels removed. This means an RCS system is just about essential for control, unless Jeb fancies using his jetpack

Probes cores will retain their reaction wheels, in varying strengths, but their power will be massively reduced. They'll be fine for getting your craft orientated a few minutes before a burn, but for quicker movement, e.g. for a lander, you'll want to bring RCS

May I suggest the bundling of my MandatoryRCS plugin ?

[WIP] Vaguely Realistic

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