For everyone learning or teaching

[StrandedonEarth]

4 hours ago, Corona688 said:

Miss your docking manuever?  No need to revert, no waiting involved, just try and try again until it works.

Unless your missed docking has resulted in an expanding cloud of debris... 

[Superfluous J]

1 hour ago, StrandedonEarth said:

Unless your missed docking has resulted in an expanding cloud of debris... 

One other important thing: You can line up your docking, hit F5, and then try that over and over again. F5 technically works in atmo at full throttle, but in practice it's not quite so useful as when floating stationary in space next to your target.

[Monger]

Yes, we tend to forget how hard KSP is. Actually, how hard the reality of space flight is.

Traveling into space is still extremely dangerous - despite the members of NASA and ESA being extremely well trained.

There are physical limits to what a vehicle can withstand, and earths upper atmosphere is especially unforgiving. 

Space travel would be SO much easier if we lived on another planet, like Mars for example. 

[Curveball Anders]

33 minutes ago, Monger said:

Yes, we tend to forget how hard KSP is.

It both is and isn't.

As a game it's hard because there's no easy way into even relaxed physics.

It does allow for a gradual, and quite funny, introduction to rocket science.

But it doesn't allow for a "I've got 20 minutes, lets have some fun, right into the action, blow excrements up" action.

(As a long-time EvE player I'd state that the difference is that in KSP people will laugh at your failures, refer to their owns and offering you advice, in EvE people will laugh at your failures, possibly refer to their own failures and help you, or post it on youtube and laugh some more).

But KSP isn't a j.random game, it isn't going to be a major hit, it isn't going to hit with a major part of the gaming market.

KSP is a geek game, it will remain a geek game even as geeks and our games are getting cool, it will remain a geek game.

It's a special feeling to stroll across a square on the country side, at 54 yo in a black hoodie, black 501's, black converse, and a local redneck 12 yo remarks ' nice T', while wearing an OpenBSD 4.x ...

Geeks will be geeks, we'll always be right, but we'll never be mainstream

 

[Provisional Name 12]

On 8/2/2016 at 2:30 PM, John FX said:

I remember learning to dock, it used to take between 2-3 hours to launch two craft and dock them. I carried on and eventually I was making space stations using the method of zeroing my relative motion, aligning the docking ports then slowly heading for the docking port.

After a few weeks of this I found RCS in the parts menu...

See and that's the crazy thing about career mode nobody tells you turn your terrier down to 10% and wing it, you just have to until you get RCS. Though a lot of the time for small craft, I don't really bother with the RCs for docking. Usually not worth the delta-v.

[ag3nt108]

Steam says I have "only" about 500 hours of KSP played, with that said I have landed or crashed on almost every body in the system.  Getting to orbit does seem rather trivial to me 9/10 buuuuut.  I still have the odd rocket that flips when Im making custom LV for odd things (station parts for example)  I still sometimes forgot to check my staging and end up firing my chutes on launch.  Yep things still often go wrong and thats what keeps the game reasonably fresh.  In fact i think it was only last week I realised the ION engines chug a ton of electric charge and a satellite i had designed turned out to be pretty useless.

[Diche Bach]

KSP is a special game that takes a certain "virtue" of gaming to a level that no other seems to even get close to:

Easy to learn, difficult to master . . . or well, maybe that should be "pretty hard to learn, astronomically difficult to master .  . . (?)"

What I'm really trying to say here is: once you learn how to play KSP, it becomes "intuitive" even to the point that you can do a lot of ballparking and do away with all the precise adjustments that seem necessary as you are learning.

I played it a good bit 3 years ago, and i have recollections of getting to the point where I could literally get a craft into orbit around Duna just totally "seat of the pants," i.e., very little use of maneuver nodes, using a good bit of intuition on burn initiations and cutoffs, etc.

Coming back after three years: I couldn't even recall the difference between an apoapsis and periapsis for certain!

[Mad_Scientist]

As I referred to my friends who wants to play:

You'll spend 2-4 hours how to build your first rocket which will not explode at 100 meters.

Next 10 hours is to learn how to escape atmosphere.

20-30 hours - to reach a stable orbit.

10 more hours to return home safely.

From that it is going to be much easy! 40 hours to reach a moon and land on it in one-two peaces.  Plus around 30h to send rescue mission, and rescue mission that rescues the rescue mission.

And if you thing that this 100 hours it's all it takes to have a space program running, you are terribly wrong. You never rendezvous in space, docking is a pain to learn. However once you did it, you will succeed almost anytime. There are SSTO (which I still can not build with 450 hours of gameplay), VTOLs, and a lot of planets you need to get to.

[Curveball Anders]

2 hours ago, Diche Bach said:

"pretty hard to learn, astronomically difficult to master "

Nah, it's not like it's rocket science.

Wait, it is rocket science ...

[Diche Bach]

3 minutes ago, Curveball Anders said:

Nah, it's not like it's rocket science.

Wait, it is rocket science ...

Sometimes it feels like doing brain surgery . . . with a pack of bottle rockets and a pair of hedge clippers . . .

Edited August 5, 2016 by Diche Bach
detail

[StrandedonEarth]

On 8/5/2016 at 8:48 AM, Curveball Anders said:

Nah, it's not like it's rocket science.

Wait, it is rocket science ...

On 8/5/2016 at 8:52 AM, Diche Bach said:

Sometimes it feels like doing brain surgery . . . with a pack of bottle rockets and a pair of hedge clippers

Actually, in the VAB, it's closer to rocket surgery, and orbital maneuvers are more like brain science....

 

 

[wumpus]

On 7/20/2016 at 1:57 PM, steuben said:

Yes and no. It depends on the question that is asked, and the answers given.
ex. Q1 Can I use a solid rocket motor for a final stage?

Oddly enough, if your goal is simply hitting escape velocity (either for contracts or practice), solid final stages are likely best (no extra engine mass).  This can come right down to a flea/hammer stage followed by a "true last stage" made up of sepratrons.  Don't count on being able to hit the SOI of another planet without a full NASA-style countdown (to launch when Kerbin is at the exact correct angle), NASA level computers and orbital scientists (at least '60s-'90s grade, you can't use modern funky gravity tricks* in stock KSP).

You might be able to get such a craft to hit an orbit, but don't expect to specify *which* orbit.  Also I think seperatrons are pretty late in career, so don't expect to find any contract you can fill this way.

* "funky gravity tricks" meaning things like the interplanetary highway.  The basic slingshot maneuvers available in stock KSP were common in the 1970s and likely determined well before sputnik.  I think pretty much all the tricks should be available with the "real gravity mod", but expect a heavy toll on your CPU.

[Guest]

I didn't have much trouble figuring out how to get into orbit (although obv I still fail sometimes, especially when experimenting with a new design, sometimes the rocket isn't all that controllable or sometimes I just get into a bad trajectory for whatever reason).

RV and docking, though. That made me cry tears of blood until I finally managed it. I read some excellent tutorials and thought ah-ha, now I understand how it works, then proceeded to make a complete mess of it until I got humble and played the tutorial scenario. And cried tears of blood, until I managed it on the second try.

The thing with KSP though is that... well, I just managed to perform my first docking manoeuvre, around the Mun, in career mode, with stuff I cobbled together myself, and the kick I got from that is just wild. I've played a quite a lot of games, but I honestly can't think of anything that gives a sense of accomplishment as massive as this one.

Can't talk more, gotta go explore Duna now.

[pandaman]

This  ^^ is what makes KSP stand out amongst so many other 'space' games.

Welcome to the game and community @Brikoleur.  

[suicidejunkie]

I feel like I've missed out on a big chunk of !!fun!! now.

The first time I had two rockets in orbit at the same time, I accidentally clanged them together before I'd even installed docking ports.  I had to learn how to avoid collisions during mere rendezvous missions, rather than how to approach and dock

[PB666]

So i test each new version career mode hard, just to see if ot is playable. I think the sequence is educational. 

So anyway this is my career mode strategy. 

1. [ learn new features of VAB, inspect the start parts] Choose the gather science from KSP . Basically i will gather science from the runway and launch pad. I have goo, i do several goo at each site. The structure is the capsule, it can be rolled off the launch pad or runway to get KSP or crawlerway science. You get 4 crew report, 1 shores report and 4 eva report, 4 site max goo. [recover your vessel]. BTW if you roll your craft back to its launch biome it costs you nothing when you recover, so as long as your are careful these escapades are free. Frabricate a wheel into start and there is triple the sci available. Attacking to capsule together affords a two wheel d & e keys roll it

2. [go to R. & D] yep we have gobs of little sci, get the bottom one [has mat sci]. Once agian, use your new part to gather KSP ground science by rolling stuff doing science, recovering science. Ideally we get 3 tier on the bottom and have a thermometers, the thermometer comes handy for repeat science in space with satellites. 

3. Now ready to launch. Get the 'First launch' contract from control, in the old days you needed to only fire an engine with a speck of fuel, now the craft has to get off the ground, the ole flea will get you up, but parachute will bring you down. And we try to do some science while falling. The flight biome is below 16k, so until we have enough for that. And important thing is to adjust your thrust in VAB, i typically set thrust at 20 times mass.

I. Thrust = Thrust, total, ASL * % Thrust. I guess. 

Coming down, most parts cannot survive a ground strike with speed above 6.5, if you want full value on your recovered parts, use struts. Strait up launches land on the pad, recover 100%, strut cost is meaningless.

4. Once on the ground, The comman and control center, has just a gob of contracts, test as much equipment on the ground as possible, part test below 16,000 meters is game, but also one can hop to nearby biomes (water, shores, grasslands, and highlands) Get the science up. 

5. Once im at start plus 4 tier on the bottom of tech tree and plus 2 on all others, its a matter of going up. Getting contracts. The key to moving up early game, and i mean altitude, is to get taller and taller fuel tanks. This is because there is a part limitation, the launch pad upgrade is cheap, even for hard mode, but VAB is expensive, thus 30 parts with short fuel tanks wont get you very high or fast. So for these you want third tallest SRB and at least the 200L tank. 

6. Satellite cores lack effective control, and the aerodynamicsand flight control early game are poor, so these are researved for things like going strait up and touching space. Once you have SAS units and solar panels, then satellite missions are possible. at least one satellite around each celestial should have an antenna, solar panel, battery, and a thermometer. Thats a science point or two, and i dont give free repeat s ience away. 

 

[capitaniojr]

On 19/07/2016 at 10:10 PM, Lich180 said:

I played KSP on pc (just the demo) a while ago, and when it went to consoles I bought it day 1. I've spent the last week building, rebuilding, looking up information, trawling forums for tips, and avoiding YouTube walkthroughs like the Black Death.

I've killed Jeb many times, stranded him in space 3-4 times (EVA accidents in space), and made orbit yesterday and a Mun flyby today. Still working on the "land safely" part afterwards, but I'm learning.

Still trying to learn the delta v calculations, and have to do em by hand since I can't mod, but doing well.

Probably helps that I play Dwarf Fortress, so I'm used to total failure. 

sugestion, if possible build an exel tab, i did it on beguining to calculate delta v and TWR, simple and work, now i use engineer redux.

[Sharpy]

On 20.07.2016 at 10:02 PM, regex said:

Should?  Always.  Never let someone tell you that something is dumb, not worth it, or that you should "l2p nub".  KSP is about trying and learning, exploring spaceflight concepts.  Newbies should try things for themselves and decide for themselves.

"This is a bad idea, but you should definitely do it, just to learn why it's a bad idea."

[Pecan]

9 hours ago, Sharpy said:

"This is a bad idea, but you should definitely do it, just to learn why it's a bad idea."

Awhh, the point is it's not that 'bad'.  It's more a 'brave' or 'interesting' thing to try, as Sir Humphrey would tell the minister.
That other people have found something a bad idea does not make it bad for someone else to try.  It just shows how 'brave' they are being in trying to make something work where others have failed.  Similarly, it is more 'interesting' than copying the many alternatives that have been shown to work.

What I hope is still true of the community here though is that we can celebrate newbies first orbits and moon-landings, even while we think 'I can do it in a tenth of the mass/for a hundredth of the cost' ... "Can I do it in a tenth of the mass?  Oh, how can I shave 10k funds off this vehicle?".

[Sharpy]

7 hours ago, Pecan said:

Awhh, the point is it's not that 'bad'.  It's more a 'brave' or 'interesting' thing to try, as Sir Humphrey would tell the minister.

You know, that idea is not all that bad. It all depends on what the final stage is to do.

Duna's thin atmosphere makes parachutes perform poorly, you must use excessive number of them to slow below crash speeds. But if you combine one parachute for stabilizing your vertical speed and orientation, with a pair of separatrons tuned just so that their max TWR is a notch below 1, that makes for a very smooth landing. They can make a very fine final stage.

[Provisional Name 12]

3 hours ago, Sharpy said:

You know, that idea is not all that bad. It all depends on what the final stage is to do.

Duna's thin atmosphere makes parachutes perform poorly, you must use excessive number of them to slow below crash speeds. But if you combine one parachute for stabilizing your vertical speed and orientation, with a pair of separatrons tuned just so that their max TWR is a notch below 1, that makes for a very smooth landing. They can make a very fine final stage.

Can you calculate those sorts of things in KER out of curiosity? Just after finally getting to duna and eve I installed a bunch of mods like LS, remote tech, CTT and whatnot and am just looking at breaking into these bodies again. I am wondering how to calculate that golden mean, I mean I had luck with drogue chutes and thrusters before, but I probably was overbuilding and I was wondering if there was a way to find what the combination of the two would be on different bodies.

[Superfluous J]

35 minutes ago, SpaceCommunism said:

Can you calculate those sorts of things in KER out of curiosity? Just after finally getting to duna and eve I installed a bunch of mods like LS, remote tech, CTT and whatnot and am just looking at breaking into these bodies again. I am wondering how to calculate that golden mean, I mean I had luck with drogue chutes and thrusters before, but I probably was overbuilding and I was wondering if there was a way to find what the combination of the two would be on different bodies.

Parachutes, no, but I'm pretty sure you can get the twr and dV of the sepratrons so long as the staging is correct.

[Sharpy]

46 minutes ago, SpaceCommunism said:

Can you calculate those sorts of things in KER out of curiosity?

Yes. In VAB, open KER in full, not compact mode, then set Body: Duna, Atmospheric, Altitude slider to... um, let's say 3000 in case you land on a mountain. Not a problem with air this thin anyway. Then tweak thrust limiter on the SRBs until Max TWR of their stage reads something a little below 1. Also, see the resulting Burn Time. If it's something excessive, like 30s, there's really no point. Reduce the fuel or number of separatrons, so that you get burn time of order of 10s and re-adjust TWR.