Mining, is it even worth it?

[regex]

8 hours ago, ag3nt108 said:

So my rant over, my question is this.  mining, do you even bother with it at all?

Nope.  I once thought it would be cool to build an honest-to-Johnny Kuck Mosquito but it's just mining.  Utterly boring to me, just like surface bases.

[Tyko]

9 hours ago, Dr.K Kerbal said:

If your going somewhere really far out in the solider system like Eeloo or the Jool System, a fuel refinery would be worth it. Put it somewhere in between your destination, or just make a planet your official fuel up station.

and...since LKO is "halfway to everywhere" having a fueling station in LKO can offer huge benefits.

[SpacedCowboy]

1 hour ago, regex said:

Nope.  I once thought it would be cool to build an honest-to-Johnny Kuck Mosquito but it's just mining.  Utterly boring to me, just like surface bases.

Got to agree with you. It's like watching some of those TV reality shows. You see one episode and you've seen them all.

"Oh look, they just killed another alligator!"

[Tyko]

2 hours ago, uncle_jew said:

Mining makes it much easier (and cheaper) to explore the Kerbol system, but it kills a lot of the fun. Because there is no longer any pressure to design efficient spaceships - just launch something with almost empty tanks into LKO using cheap SRBs, fill up tanks at my LKO fuel depot and then fly for free.

But as I said, these basically put you into the "superuser mode" - you suddenly can do anything you want, which kills the fun.

 

I guess it depends on how you define "fun". I'm about to start mining and I'm looking forward to the "efficiencies" of being able to loft lighter modules from Kerbal then assemble and fuel larger missions in orbit.

whether you launch fueled ships or assemble/fuel in orbit, you can always Kerbal on moar boosters, so a decision to do things efficiently can take many forms, but for me, my realism is tied to building kerbaled missions with enough living space to "feel right" sending them on a multi-year mission and that takes a big ship - too big to launch fueled.

7 minutes ago, SpacedCowboy said:

Got to agree with you. It's like watching some of those TV reality shows. You see one episode and you've seen them all.

"Oh look, they just killed another alligator!"

LOL...in a way this is true, but as 5thHorseman so aptly put it:

7 hours ago, 5thHorseman said:

Step 1: Replace "Mining" with anything else in the game.

Step 2: Have an existential crisis.

Step 3: Realize everything in the game is worth it.

To me that makes it worth it

<SNIP>

[Bigbootie]

I think it is worth it for me. And I also have the same issues with bases and jumping parts. Kind of takes the fun out of base building after you engineer some complex system and painstakingly deploy it in the field and the game basically breaks it for you. Here is hoping for an update.

[Tyko]

11 minutes ago, Bigbootie said:

I think it is worth it for me. And I also have the same issues with bases and jumping parts. Kind of takes the fun out of base building after you engineer some complex system and painstakingly deploy it in the field and the game basically breaks it for you. Here is hoping for an update.

I've gotten really nervous about Kraken attacks on multipart bases. It seems like all those connections cause probs. I think I'm going to have a one part lander that includes mining tools, power and processed fuel storage. Then I'll land my fuel tanker nearby and use a KAS pipe to temporarily connect and transfer fuel.

[Curveball Anders]

40 minutes ago, tjt said:

I guess it depends on how you define "fun".

This, all over.

Some think it's fun to find the most efficient way to solve a problem and to spend hours looking for the 'best' solution.

Some think it's fun not having to bother with efficiency/math/logic and enjoys tackling everything by intuition and wild guesses.

Some tackle a game the same way as they tackle RL, some enjoys tackling a game totally opposite of the way they would tackle a similar situation in RL.

The important thing to remember that a game is a game, and everyone is free to play it the way they enjoy.

 

 

[Tyko]

How close to Engineers have to me to make mining work better? Do they have to occupy a space that's physically connected to the drill or just nearby?

[Bigbootie]

33 minutes ago, tjt said:

I've gotten really nervous about Kraken attacks on multipart bases. It seems like all those connections cause probs. I think I'm going to have a one part lander that includes mining tools, power and processed fuel storage. Then I'll land my fuel tanker nearby and use a KAS pipe to temporarily connect and transfer fuel.

That is exactly how I do it and once I connect the pipe I sometimes still have bouncing issues that are serious enough to cause breakage. Especially if you cycle between craft or when you are using physics warp to speed up ore production or whatever. But yeah, fewer craft and connections is definitely the way to go for now.

Edited July 21, 2016 by Bigbootie

[specialopsdave]

Even though I don't bother with SSTMs (Single Stage To Minmus), I'm assuming that, with a fuel station, they're overpowered.

[Tyko]

4 minutes ago, Bigbootie said:

That is exactly how I do it and once I connect the pipe I sometimes still have bouncing issues that are serious enough to cause breakage. But yeah, fewer craft and connections is definitely the way to go for now.

Do you do scene changes/ reloads with them connected by pipes? It seems that most fails happen when the scene loads

[Bigbootie]

1 minute ago, tjt said:

Do you do scene changes/ reloads with them connected by pipes? It seems that most fails happen when the scene loads

Yeah, see edit.

[KSK]

Is mining worth it. Well, I haven't done much of it myself but I've read a lot by somebody who has. Right @Kuzzter?

You see mining lets you build stuff like this...and run missions to Jool with it. And just so you know, this is the Jool 5 challenge done with a fleet carrier.

[Geschosskopf]

12 hours ago, ag3nt108 said:

So my rant over, my question is this.  mining, do you even bother with it at all?

I bother with it all the time at other planets, but never within the Kerbin system.  It's OK once as you did to learn how it works, but after that, it's a waste of time and money to build up a refueling infrastructure inside Kerbin's SOI.  You'll never use it enough for it to pay off in fuel savings and all the time you spend messing with it reduced the amount of time you have to do stuff at other planets.  The only time mining is practical within Kerbin's SOI is if you have a self-refueling ship, like one of those "SSTO to Anywhere" things.  But then you're not building up an infrastructure.

Now at other planets, mining is great.  There, you're not doing it in a misguided attempt to save money, you're doing it so you can do more at the other planet.  If you don't need to send out fuel for use at the target and the return trip, then you can send out more and bigger payloads that can accomplish more things and see more sights.  And you can leave most of that out there to use on another trip.

However, bear in mind that surface bases have always been and probably always will be Kraken-bait.  Right now, it's especially bad if you use the bugged lander legs and wheels.  It's much better to just sit solid parts on the ground.

[suicidejunkie]

2 hours ago, tjt said:

How close to Engineers have to me to make mining work better? Do they have to occupy a space that's physically connected to the drill or just nearby?

The engineer simply needs to be aboard the vessel anywhere.  Command seats are fine too.

 

To minimize jumpiness, build your mining rig with large fuel tanks.  You can then dock (using claw or hose), quickly fill the visiting ship's tanks, and then disconnect the two vehicles again without leaving the scene.

The mining rig can then resume its drill and fill safely.

 

Rather than stationary fuel depots, consider having >100 ton nuclear tankers that can land on Minmus next to the mining rig (or mine independently), and then bring the fuel to whomever needs rescue and/or resupply.

 

Edit:

My main reason for mining is that I don't like letting anything go to waste.  Past the early game, what goes to orbit stays operating in space indefinitely.  (Service only ends when the vehicle is damaged beyond KAS repair, and in that situation it is broken down to act as spare parts for other vehicles)  SSTO spaceplanes are allowed to deorbit because they can be refuelled on the lawn and sent right back up.

Edited July 21, 2016 by suicidejunkie

[magnemoe]

3 hours ago, tjt said:

and...since LKO is "halfway to everywhere" having a fueling station in LKO can offer huge benefits.

This however it can also be done by SSTO tanker or even disposable ones in sandbox, however the fuel price on Tylo surface is pretty high. 

[Norcalplanner]

I'm currently finding it worthwhile in RSS to mine fuel on the Moon, connect an EVA fuel line to my LV-N powered fuel tanker, then take the fuel up to my orbital Moon station.  It's not refueling anything going interplanetary, but it means that ships from earth can arrive with nearly empty tanks, grab some fuel from the station, and then burn for home again when it's time.  This setup also powers all the exploration I'm doing to various Moon biomes, so the science landers and personnel shuttles can be used over and over again.

[Lunar Sea]

On Minmus and Ike I just land a mining vessel that returns to orbit with 900 ore and docks with an ISRU-equipped station. After a few runs I start running a surplus. Worked pretty well for me so far, and I enjoy practicing getting the landings more efficient. 

[foamyesque]

ISRU is super useful in some places; Eve, particularly, comes to mind, because you can use the first stage of your Eve ascent vehicle as your Kerbin->Eve transfer stage and refuel it when you hit the surface, which lets you save a titanic amount of mass.

[Znath]

For super-far missions I'd say it is.
 

I haven't gotten that deep in to where I make hyper complicated missions.  That's in part because my computer originally couldn't handle building a ship that could get out that far to begin with, so I focused on aircraft, land experiments, and near-kerbin exploration.  For things like circumnavigators it can be pretty handy I've found that way you're not shackled to electricity's lack of output or ground-based traction systems. 

[Xyphos]

Mining is essential to construction an SSTA.

[KerikBalm]

Topping off from mun or minmus orbit means you can get to jool with only about 1 km/sec dV in you transfer stage... which makes it a lot easier to do fully reusable missions to Jool and back.

I hadn't bothered so much with it in kerbin's soi until lately, as I mostly focused on having it at the destination so I could biome hop as much as I wanted, but lately I've been finding it easier to refuel ejection stages* at mun, rather than aerobrake them more and more, and then rendevous in kerbin orbit.

* I tend to use reusable ejection stages that put the payload on an intercept trajectory, and then detach and retroburn to stay in kerbin's SOI and the naerobrake the Apoapsis out to about mun orbit, then I come back later when it had a mun intercept and refuel it, rather than keeping focus on it for additional aerobraking attempts, and then doing a kerbin rendevous... timing a launch to have a rendevous right after launch is much easier launching from mun than kerbin. Its also super easy to rendevous when capturing at mun by just adjusting how much you retroburn the first time passing PE (its less predictable doing this at kerbin using aerobraking, or requires more dV if aerobraking isn't used).

Far from not being "worth it", I find it a bit OPd, and I don't use it for the difficult challenges like a reusable single stage tylo lander, or a trip to Moho.

[Guest]

Mining seems worthwhile on a sufficiently remote low-gravity outpost, like a captured Dresteroid or Bop/Pol. Gilly is also handy for getting to Moho without making an overbuilt muscle rocket, though not a lot else. In the case of mods that add more planets, this kind of installation can be invaluable for passing ships. I can't say I have that advanced experience, hence I can only say it seems worthwhile, but I hope to get there.

Edited July 22, 2016 by Guest

[Randazzo]

20 hours ago, Geschosskopf said:

I bother with it all the time at other planets, but never within the Kerbin system.  It's OK once as you did to learn how it works, but after that, it's a waste of time and money to build up a refueling infrastructure inside Kerbin's SOI.  You'll never use it enough for it to pay off in fuel savings and all the time you spend messing with it reduced the amount of time you have to do stuff at other planets.

This.

Unless you derive enjoyment from running fuel freight around, it eventually becomes such tedious work that it saps all the fun out of the game.

[Red Iron Crown]

I had a save where I used Minmus ISRU-generated fuel for everything past ascent to LKO, it was quite efficient but very time consuming. So now I don't bother with that.

It is worthwhile in another system, though. My most recent save was themed around colonization of the Jool system, ISRU factored heavily into that (though if I was doing it again I would likely use Extraplanetary Launchpads).