Where CAN'T 10 km/s take you?

[ruiluth]

Assuming a reasonable TWR and a one-way trip, what places are NOT within 10 km/s of the launchpad? As far as I can tell you should be able to get anywhere on that, even Tylo, although my experiences with Moho tell me that it's deceptive and untrustworthy and always takes 5x more dV than you think. In that case, it might be a great idea to build a probe early on with 10 km/s of dV and send them all over the system for maximum science!

Thoughts?

[W. Kerman]

Depends if you do smart things or not smart things! People have gotten more delta v out of smaller craft than my bank busting 1400 ton craft. By doing things right! One place you can't go is Eve and back.

[katateochi]

There is this online tool http://www.gavingolden.com/wherecanigo.php 
I'm not sure how up to date it is.  On it's forum thread it says that it hasn't been updated for the change in Kerbin's atmo but that its other values should be ok still. But you can start it from Kerbin orbit and just enter your dV minus ~3400 

[John FX]

Once you can build a 10KDv in LKO craft you have essentially beaten the `getting to places` part of the game.

Once you can put a 9KDv lander on a craft with 4KDv into LKO you have beaten Eve, the hardest place to return from.

Of course at that point install RSS/RO/RP-0 and learn all over again. 10KDv just to orbit...

[SinBad]

I smell a new challange:

10Kdv probe to everywhere design

Catagories,

Lightest

Cheapest

Earliest tech

Winners for catagories decided by that catagories metric of interest, bonus teirs for number of different science experiments carried.

Bonus prizes for landed probes.

Master Prober awarded if the same design ranks first in two or more catagories.

Edited July 23, 2016 by SinBad

[pandaman]

1 hour ago, SinBad said:

 

Master Prober awarded if the same design ranks first in two or more catagories.

Hmmmmm.  Interesting challenge, but 'Master Prober' sounds like dubious title to have the honour of holding 

[W. Kerman]

OP Sputnik challenge?

[Requia]

6 hours ago, John FX said:

Once you can build a 10KDv in LKO craft you have essentially beaten the `getting to places` part of the game.

Once you can put a 9KDv lander on a craft with 4KDv into LKO you have beaten Eve, the hardest place to return from.

Of course at that point install RSS/RO/RP-0 and learn all over again. 10KDv just to orbit...

It's really not that much more of a challenge. The system is tougher, but real world parts have amazing performance (at the cost of little details like 'restart count' and 'ullage' and 'your kerbals died because your fancy 8km/s sustainer stage hits 11gs when the tank bottoms out and your engines don't throttle').

[John FX]

1 minute ago, Requia said:

It's really not that much more of a challenge. The system is tougher, but real world parts have amazing performance (at the cost of little details like 'restart count' and 'ullage' and 'your kerbals died because your fancy 8km/s sustainer stage hits 11gs when the tank bottoms out and your engines don't throttle').

hehe, those are the things that must be learned.

[UmbralRaptor]

A low eccentricity low kerbol orbit is out, but not sure of anything beyond that.

[SAI Peregrinus]

Kerbol escape velocity is 94,672.01 m/s, so 10km/s can't get you interstellar.

[Xyphos]

17 hours ago, John FX said:

Once you can put a 9KDv lander on a craft with 4KDv into LKO you have beaten Eve, the hardest place to return from.

I thought it was 15k dV from sea level?

[John FX]

4 hours ago, Xyphos said:

I thought it was 15k dV from sea level?

Not any more with the more forgiving atmosphere. I launched from 1.5K up with a craft that had 10KVac Dv (7764 Atmo Dv @ Kerbin sea level, 4284 Atmo Dv @ Eve sea level) and still had over 2KDv left over in orbit. That`s almost enough to get back home.

Edited July 24, 2016 by John FX

[Kermanzooming]

On 7/23/2016 at 5:43 AM, ruiluth said:

Assuming a reasonable TWR and a one-way trip, what places are NOT within 10 km/s of the launchpad?

The challenging part here is the 10 Km/s with reasonable TWR. Ion engines or NERV are the way to get those 10 Km/s, but getting good TWR with them seems difficult.

[Xyphos]

1 hour ago, Kermanzooming said:

but getting good TWR with them seems difficult.

 

This means, TWR increases the further away you are from an object.
in theroy, it's possible to launch straight up using chemical rockets to a distant sub-orbit then do a huge circulurization and/or ejection burn with ions.
can't say this is the most effecient method, but still possible.

Edited July 24, 2016 by Xyphos

[Majorjim!]

On 07/23/2016 at 0:05 PM, John FX said:

10KDv just to orbit...

Yeah but that's not using stock motors and tanks. There are mods that adjust the tankange and motor values so it's just that same as stock just with longer burn times. People often forget this.

[FyunchClick]

On ‎23‎-‎7‎-‎2016 at 5:43 AM, ruiluth said:

Assuming a reasonable TWR and a one-way trip, what places are NOT within 10 km/s of the launchpad?

I know that this exceeds the parameters of your question because one-way-trip, but one place it definitely doesn't take you is a low kerbol orbit. I had this rescue contract for someone stuck in "low orbit" around the sun, which was well inside Moho orbit. So I built me an 10 km/s rocket thinking lets put some margin in there and maybe pickup another rescue contract at the same altitude, got an PE at the right altitude and an inclination match without much trouble and well within budget (something just a little over a Moho intercept with a minimal inclination change), and then basically discovered I wasn't going to be able to match speeds with the target even if I'd brought several km/s more.

I'm not sure what I did wrong, perhaps I should've gone for an even lower PE and tried to get an intercept from there at AP? In any case, I'm not going to take those contracts so lightly anymore.

[Red Iron Crown]

On 7/23/2016 at 2:14 PM, UmbralRaptor said:

A low eccentricity low kerbol orbit is out, but not sure of anything beyond that.

Not sure a solar impact can be done for 10km/s either.

11 hours ago, Majorjim said:

Yeah but that's not using stock motors and tanks. There are mods that adjust the tankange and motor values so it's just that same as stock just with longer burn times. People often forget this.

I've heard a few people claim they play RSS with stock parts, which seems nuts to me but whatever floats their respective boats.

[Archgeek]

Even starting from LKO, 10k won't get you into a 610km circular orbit around Kerbol.  That costs 13.7km/s.  Well, on a direct trajectory anyway.  Doing a Jool bi-elliptic might work out.  10k might get you an impact, though.  It's just another 10 klicks down.

[Provisional Name 12]

On 7/23/2016 at 2:08 AM, katateochi said:

There is this online tool http://www.gavingolden.com/wherecanigo.php 
I'm not sure how up to date it is.  On it's forum thread it says that it hasn't been updated for the change in Kerbin's atmo but that its other values should be ok still. But you can start it from Kerbin orbit and just enter your dV minus ~3400 

I tend to find this one more reliable:
http://13375.de/KSPDeltaVMap/
 

[UmbralRaptor]

9 hours ago, Red Iron Crown said:

Not sure a solar impact can be done for 10km/s either.

Kerbol escape plus a <<500 m/s is enough to set up an impact via a bi-elliptic transfer. Not sure if one can save more via a Jool sling, but probably?

[Red Iron Crown]

1 minute ago, UmbralRaptor said:

Kerbol escape plus a <<500 m/s is enough to set up an impact via a bi-elliptic transfer. Not sure if one can save more via a Jool sling, but probably?

Ah right, I was thinking direct transfer. 

[magnemoe]

9 hours ago, Archgeek said:

Even starting from LKO, 10k won't get you into a 610km circular orbit around Kerbol.  That costs 13.7km/s.  Well, on a direct trajectory anyway.  Doing a Jool bi-elliptic might work out.  10k might get you an impact, though.  It's just another 10 klicks down.

10 km/s should give you an kerbol impact, low orbit is far harder as you will have to kill a lot of speed. Did it back then you could get close to the sun with an combined LV-N and ion probe where the LV-N took me from LKO to close flyby and the ion did the circulation burn,