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Devnotes Tuesday: Two sprints down, one to go!


SQUAD

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Thanks for another great devnotes! Related to the Deep Space Network (DSN) discussion: what are the effects of turning the DSN off completely? Would this require the player to place an initial antenna/dish at the KSC, after which you would have to build your own satellite network (effectively becoming similar to RemoteTech in the sense that you have one specific point of origin on Kerbin rather than Kerbin itself)? I'm refering to the previous mention from RoverDude on Squadcast that the DSN could be turned off:

 

Squadcast from 16/06/2016

Timestamp: 5:00 min

Question: “Can we disable the DSN” 

Answer: “ Yes, the DSN can be turned off”.

 

*Edit*

Found the answer by RoverDude in the same Squadcast. Timestamp: 23:42 min

"If you want to do a RemoteTech style relay system, just set the DSN to 0 and you will have to build the whole thing by hand. It's absolutely an option."

 

Thanks for the hard work and detailed answers RoverDude. I am greatly looking forward to the implementation of the relay system.

 

 

 

Edited by Jasper_f
Found the answer to my question.
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2 hours ago, Majorjim! said:

Yes I was going to add that I or others could just choose not to use it but the option IS there.

   I understand the need for auto-struts on the wheels and inside fairings, although with a bit of creativity the latter is not required, but I still don't see that it is needed for all parts. You got a good response on the others because it was needed on those parts.

 What kind of benefits does it bring to have it on all parts if it does not give KJR like stiffness to a craft?

And thank you Arsonide for the replies, I know you must be busy so that is my last question.

 

Here's an example of "MuddrTech":  Place a full orange tank (or any large fuel tank).  Now string a bunch of girder segments to one end of it.  Now put a landing gear (or a wheel, I think) on the end of the girder string, it can be left closed.  The gear will auto-strut itself to the orange tank through the girders, resulting in a very rigid construct.  This even works with components that get undocked and then redocked to something with a more massive part, the auto-struts will reconnect.

When this capability was realized, it became quite popular with EJ_SA and Das Valdez.  Now, putting landing gear on your rocket or station or whatever is rather silly...which is why @NathanKell expanded it to all other parts, so you can use something that won't look so out of place. :)

 

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2 minutes ago, Majorjim! said:

I still don't see how that extends to all parts though. The wheels needed it, other parts do not.. Why have it for all parts?

Why not? The code to support it already exists, might as well let players choose when they want it and when they don't.

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Just now, Red Iron Crown said:

Why not? The code to support it already exists, might as well let players choose when they want it and when they don't.

I agree choice is great but when they want what?

 Arsonide said it will strut parts to the prime part or heaviest but why is this needed? To reduce required struts? As it does not strengthen joints I don't see why it is needed. I am just curious why it was implemented but nobody has said why it was/is needed.

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14 hours ago, SQUAD said:
 

One of these things (or rather two) consisted of our Stability Assistance System (SAS). Those of you who have followed our development over the years may know that there are two systems at work here: first, the system that controls Stability Assist (the old SAS mode), and second the Pilot Modes. These two systems are now combined into one piece of code, and the consolidated SAS system will adjust its aggressiveness based on the ship’s design, meaning it’s a bit less jittery now.  Additionally, the Pilot steering modes include a “coasting” phase and a “stopping” phase when switching steering targets, which helps conserve resources and limits overshooting.

 

Praise the sun PID Controller.

Seriously though, this is awesome. I may go back to playing 100% stock after this next version drops. ...maybe that last statement was a bit ambitious, I'd probably still like a dV readout... and RCS Build Aid... and docking port alignment too... 

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4 hours ago, RoverDude said:

It's no less 'magic' than not showing you the factories that make your rocket parts - unless you subscribe to the idea that Kerbals are subterranean due to the constant rain of flaming debris - in which case they'd probably protect their radio antennas as well :wink:

Your right, that is also completely magic and I'd love to see those factories too.  Are you offering to do this? :wink:   The lack of factories and other buildings and magic communications are two separate issues, at least in my mind.  They are both issues but the communications are what the specific topic is about, so I didn't see fit to mention the buildings.

5 hours ago, RoverDude said:

I expect there are many other things you can get immersed in vs. a radio antenna somewhere on Kerbin that you might spend 0.001% of your total play time looking at, and then, only an initial peek out of curiosity, or because a long range surface contract happened to fly past it.  

You would expect incorrectly.  Have you not seen the repeated requests to make planets more interesting?  Kerbin is a planet in the game, it counts too.

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7 minutes ago, Navy2k said:

Can we postpone 1.2 for a few month? RSS/RO/RP0 runs really well right now. 

*Starts running to get a headstart against the pitchforkmob*

 

Greetings

Ben

Flee for your life while you still can!

 

I am looking forwards to the new communications system. It will had a whole new layer of gameplay. Thanks again SQUAD.

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7 minutes ago, Navy2k said:

Can we postpone 1.2 for a few month? RSS/RO/RP0 runs really well right now. 

*Starts running to get a headstart against the pitchforkmob*

 

Greetings

Ben

Or at least a big long heads up on a release date nearer the time so we can port or 1.1.3 saves over to specific installs not breaking all mods :D:P

 

In other news - What a great dev note - looking forward to 1.2 even more now :)

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1 hour ago, Majorjim! said:

I agree choice is great but when they want what?

 Arsonide said it will strut parts to the prime part or heaviest but why is this needed? To reduce required struts? As it does not strengthen joints I don't see why it is needed. I am just curious why it was implemented but nobody has said why it was/is needed.

The wheel auto-strutting was put into 1.1.2 as another workaround for the issues with the gear/wheels/klegs.  As intended, wheels will invisibly auto-strut to the most massive part on a plane, I guess to help overcome the weakness and over-stressing problems.  Well, others then realized (I believe it was Muddr, a chat moderator for Das Valdez, who was first, hence the name "MuddrTech") that this capability could be used to reinforce otherwise wobbly craft, be they planes, rockets or even things like space stations (or launch pads and towers in the cae of EJ_SA) by the careful placement of landing gear at the proper spots. This technique became very popular (Das and EJ are the biggest KSP streamers on Twitch), enough so that @NathanKell actually looked to see if it could be kept in 1.2 (after @Arsonide earlier said it would be removed), and it turns out that he did.  Expanding the auto-strutting to all other parts was unexpected, but I think it was done because putting landing gear on a rocket does look quite silly, so now existing parts on a rocket that won't look out-of-place can be used for the auto-strutting.

As was said earlier, this will be off by default and will have to activated by turning on the Advanced Tweakables option, so those who don't know about this will be none the wiser...but those who DO know about MuddrTech will get to keep a very valuable tool.  :)

 

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Just now, Laguna said:

The wheel auto-strutting was put into 1.1.2 as another workaround for the issues with the gear/wheels/klegs.  As intended, wheels will invisibly auto-strut to the most massive part on a plane, I guess to help overcome the weakness and over-stressing problems.  Well, others then realized (I believe it was Muddr, a chat moderator for Das Valdez, who was first, hence the name "MuddrTech") that this capability could be used to reinforce otherwise wobbly craft, be they planes, rockets or even things like space stations (or launch pads and towers in the cae of EJ_SA) by the careful placement of landing gear at the proper spots. This technique became very popular (Das and EJ are the biggest KSP streamers on Twitch), enough so that @NathanKell actually looked to see if it could be kept in 1.2 (after @Arsonide earlier said it would be removed), and it turns out that he did.  Expanding the auto-strutting to all other parts was unexpected, but I think it was done because putting landing gear on a rocket does look quite silly, so now existing parts on a rocket that won't look out-of-place can be used for the auto-strutting.

As was said earlier, this will be off by default and will have to activated by turning on the Advanced Tweakables option, so those who don't know about this will be none the wiser...but those who DO know about MuddrTech will get to keep a very valuable tool.  :)

 

I understand the wheel issue. Right so it is for craft stability. That just seemed at odds from Arsonides explanation. I also saw in your explanation a possible very good reason for implementing this but you did not highlight it.

 Do you know if it will apply auto strutting between vessels that dock? That could be very helpful indeed. Aside from that and also given that it does not enhance part joints and struts will still be needed I see very little use for such a mechanic.

 

 

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16 hours ago, SQUAD said:

After finishing up his part of the code cleaning, Nathanael (Nathankell) implemented an Advanced Tweakables settings option in Gameplay settings. This allows us to expose various advanced tweakable options (like setting tank priority, the existing actuation toggles for RCS and gimbals, the safe-deploy option for parachutes, and the like). In addition he refactored the wheel auto-strutting to be available for other parts, again leaving the option hidden unless Advanced Tweakables are turned on. Any mod can set its fields, events, and actions to advanced-tweakable-only as well.

This is fantastic! :D That fuel flow priority is going to be extremely handy and auto strut toggling is going to greatly help people who want to cut out as many extra parts from their crafts as possible :) - Say @NathanKell, is there any chance this was inspired by a suggestion in the bug tracker?

Edited by Avera9eJoe
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48 minutes ago, Navy2k said:

Can we postpone 1.2 for a few month? RSS/RO/RP0 runs really well right now. 

*Starts running to get a headstart against the pitchforkmob*

 

Greetings

Ben

For every person enjoying 1.1.x, there seems to be a person still waiting on a playable Unity 5 version of KSP.  If Squad delayed 1.2 any more than absolutely necessary there likely would be a pitchfork mob.

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25 minutes ago, Majorjim! said:

Do you know if it will apply auto strutting between vessels that dock? That could be very helpful indeed. Aside from that and also given that it does not enhance part joints and struts will still be needed I see very little use for such a mechanic.

It will only autostrut if you told it to autostrut. By that, I mean if you had a part autostrut to the "heaviest part," then docked to a vessel that has a heavier part, then the autostrut would move the joint. If you did not have an autostrut active, then it will not autostrut.

 

This is a bit of a case of trying to listen to folks (hey, we like this feature!) and not dramatically changing the underlying game post 1.0. If people want to stiffen the rockets with this new feature, they can. If they don't, then the game remains effectively unchanged. As was mentioned, some folks who like to build some massive creations were asking to keep a feature like this in. Instead of having it on a random part that they have to put all over the ship (like landing gear), it's set up to be essentially user selectable.

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Just now, Claw said:

It will only autostrut if you told it to autostrut. By that, I mean if you had a part autostrut to the "heaviest part," then docked to a vessel that has a heavier part, then the autostrut would move the joint. If you did not have an autostrut active, then it will not autostrut.

 

This is a bit of a case of trying to listen to folks (hey, we like this feature!) and not dramatically changing the underlying game post 1.0. If people want to stiffen the rockets with this new feature, they can. If they don't, then the game remains effectively unchanged. As was mentioned, some folks who like to build some massive creations were asking to keep a feature like this in. Instead of having it on a random part that they have to put all over the ship (like landing gear), it's set up to be essentially user selectable.

I agree with that, that adding a wheel to make it work is very silly indeed. I was just not clear on it's operation. I guess that makes sense, I will have to wait to see it in action I guess, thanks all for the replies to my inane questions.

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1 hour ago, Claw said:

It will only autostrut if you told it to autostrut. By that, I mean if you had a part autostrut to the "heaviest part," then docked to a vessel that has a heavier part, then the autostrut would move the joint. If you did not have an autostrut active, then it will not autostrut.

 

This is a bit of a case of trying to listen to folks (hey, we like this feature!) and not dramatically changing the underlying game post 1.0. If people want to stiffen the rockets with this new feature, they can. If they don't, then the game remains effectively unchanged. As was mentioned, some folks who like to build some massive creations were asking to keep a feature like this in. Instead of having it on a random part that they have to put all over the ship (like landing gear), it's set up to be essentially user selectable.

So, basically, does this give a built-in KJR option?

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1 hour ago, Claw said:

It will only autostrut if you told it to autostrut. By that, I mean if you had a part autostrut to the "heaviest part," then docked to a vessel that has a heavier part, then the autostrut would move the joint. If you did not have an autostrut active, then it will not autostrut.

Wait so is this like a right click feature on parts that's enabled when you turn on the advanced tweakable? Like checking a box if you want a piece to auto strut to the heaviest part on a craft?

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4 minutes ago, Avera9eJoe said:

Wait so is this like a right click feature on parts that's enabled when you turn on the advanced tweakable? Like checking a box if you want a piece to auto strut to the heaviest part on a craft?

They said earlier it was added to the Advanced Tweakables menu.  I think that means it's hidden by default.

Edited by Alshain
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9 minutes ago, Alshain said:

They said earlier it was added to the Advanced Tweakables menu.  I think that means it's hidden by default.

I know it's hidden by default that's why I mentioned the advanced tweakables menu :confused: - I'm curios if it's on every single part in the right click menu when the advanced tweakables menu is enabled to toggle auto struts on or off?

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1 minute ago, Avera9eJoe said:

I know it's hidden by default that's why I mentioned the advanced tweakables menu :confused: - I'm curios if it's on every single part in the right click menu when the advanced tweakables menu is enabled to toggle auto struts on or off?

Only the wheels, at least that's how I read it.

Edited by Alshain
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