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What counts as a vtol?


nascarlaser1
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Is a helicopter a VTOL? This is getting really confusing:confused: 
I believe, take of vertically, land vertically and also sustain flight with TWR < 1, all while using only some kind of fuel     ...lets make that 0.5, else every fighter jet might be a VTOL if it lands lucky enough

Edited by Blaarkies
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2 hours ago, Blaarkies said:

Is a helicopter a VTOL? This is getting really confusing:confused: 
I believe, take of vertically, land vertically and also sustain flight with TWR < 1, all while using only some kind of fuel     ...lets make that 0.5, else every fighter jet might be a VTOL if it lands lucky enough

Helicopters are capable of all that.  Hint: rotors produce lift,  not thrust. 

Anyways that is not the point.  We don't need to say that helicopters (and blimps,  and rockets)  take off/land vertically because that it's the usual  way(or even the only way) .  For planes the usual it's to take off/land horizontally. We stat that a plane is VTOL capable because that is beyond what a regular plane do. 

 

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1 hour ago, Spricigo said:

Helicopters are capable of all that.  Hint: rotors produce lift,  not thrust. 

Anyways that is not the point.  We don't need to say that helicopters (and blimps,  and rockets)  take off/land vertically because that it's the usual  way(or even the only way) .  For planes the usual it's to take off/land horizontally. We stat that a plane is VTOL capable because that is beyond what a regular plane do. 

 

Well, jet turbines produce lift in a fore direction, and then thrust is only something rocket engines do:D...this sounds a lot like the 2-3 different ways of explaining why airplanes fly:
Bernoulli's principal about fluid pressure flow,
Newton's 3rd law about reactionary forces,
...i think there is a third one as well

Anyway I get what you are saying, at speed the blades act like wings(thats why helicopters don't fall like bricks when the engine goes out...they sometimes do survivable crash landings). Now the real question is: Is a vertical drop parachute assisted plane still a VTOL?
I feel planes are masters of aerodynamic forces, they should be able to use it to their advantage anywhere...parachutes feel like a moment of uncontrolled panic

Edited by Blaarkies
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Jet compressors & the bypass fans of a turbofan/blades of a turboprop produce aerodynamic lift, but the expansion of air/fuel in the combustion chamber & out the tailpipe certainly isn't. However anything thrusting down can generate lift in the sense of "counteracting gravity".

I think the idea of VTOL is it can do it repeatedly as an inherent part of the design, so if it can VTO it should be able to VL. If it's using parachutes to land it probably can't VTO in the first place unless it's got too much fuel.

Edited by Van Disaster
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55 minutes ago, Blaarkies said:

 Now the real question is: Is a vertical drop parachute assisted plane still a VTOL?
I feel planes are masters of aerodynamic forces, they should be able to use it to their advantage anywhere...parachutes feel like a moment of uncontrolled panic

Is parachute assisted landing. .err..landing?  

If the given plane also takes off vertically it fits in the VTOL definition. 

Granted it's not the typical VTOL. If you feel better call it VTOPD  (vertical take off and parachute droped)  instead of the broader definition. 

BTW I see the use of parachute drop more as laziness than panic.  

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