Wcmille

Gilly Base Ideas

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I'd be interested in seeing what others are doing regarding mining on Gilly. Pictures would be ideal if you have them.

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Take Rocketdyne tank(biggest 3.75m fuel tank), attach a 2-way adapter to the front and on those two nodes you can add an ISRU, drills, etc. And also the command pod on the top node(I find the Rockomax 1.25 -> 2.5m fueled adapters easier to use than the 2-way adapter). Add legs, nuke engines and "spark" engines for VTOL use. This thing can land itself easily on gilly, take off again for easy docking in space, go back down and refill again. Large quantities helps make this less effort per mass of fueled attained

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I've mined Gilly 3 times in my KSP career, the first time way back before it was stock and the latest was earlier this year in a failed attempt (though Gilly went okay) at a Grand Tour.

The first time, I used KAS (which I believe is named KIS now, though KAS still exists and I've never learned which does what. If I want something I used to be able to do in KAS, I just install them both these days) to nail the craft to the ground.

The second time, I installed Ant thrusters aiming upward to give a little push downward to make sure I stay on the ground.

The third time, I just landed and drilled.

In all 3 cases, everything worked fine. As it's so small, I say the drilling/converting/storage should all be one ship. Go down, fill up, then come back into space to fill up whomever needs it.

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Definitely no need for any thrusters for vertical orientation - the reaction wheel is more than enough.

Land in some valley/bowl/crater as the low gravity makes friction zilch and the slopes are plenty enough to accelerate to speeds where you can break something.

KIS+KAS might be desirable for that. Pylons, winches, maybe harpoons.

(KIS is the Inventory thing: boxes, kerbals carrying items etc.Also, the electric screwdriver that can be used to attach/detach parts outside VABKAS is the winch and winch accessories. Without KIS you won't attach pylons to the ground. Without KAS you won't have anything to attach ship to the pylons with. But with KAS you can still shoot harpoons.)

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B8YDWgYh.png
Standardbase setup with an workshop and tug with science module. I landed two astroids in the background for fun.

nFQdPX9h.png
Better view of base, this is on Moho but same design using the planetary bases mod but an huge 3.75 meter fuel tank as core. It has room for 13 kerbals has an lab and a greenhouse who make it self supplied for 8 kerbals. 

One nice thing about Gilly is that you can land anything. Mining should be scaled to fuel Eve landers and ships replacing crew, you might also use Gilly as an stepping stone for Moho. 
One tips then landing on Gilly is to burn downward with 20-30 m/s, this makes landing easier, Gilly rotate fast and orbital speed is slow so you might have to burn to compensate. 
Push down with rsc to stop craft from moving. 

Edited by magnemoe

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Thanks, Magnamoe. You just gave me an idea.

I've always wanted a sustainable Eve base without mining. Assuming they use LS or ore/fuel as a proxy, that means regular deliveries, or an ISRU. For style reasons I don't want an ISRU in Eve's atmosphere, but how do I sustainably deliver supplies? After all, for every delivery I'd have to bring back the tank, or just let it linger there in ever-accumulating piles.

Bringing the tank back is hard and kind of defeats the purpose. I shudder to think about trying to design the SSTO (for reusability) from Eve that can also bring back an (empty) orange tank.

Solution: don't use tanks. Drop asteroids on the base.

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10 hours ago, 5thHorseman said:

I've mined Gilly 3 times in my KSP career, the first time way back before it was stock and the latest was earlier this year in a failed attempt (though Gilly went okay) at a Grand Tour.

The first time, I used KAS (which I believe is named KIS now, though KAS still exists and I've never learned which does what. If I want something I used to be able to do in KAS, I just install them both these days) to nail the craft to the ground.

The second time, I installed Ant thrusters aiming upward to give a little push downward to make sure I stay on the ground.

The third time, I just landed and drilled.

In all 3 cases, everything worked fine. As it's so small, I say the drilling/converting/storage should all be one ship. Go down, fill up, then come back into space to fill up whomever needs it.

How much ore are you carrying up on your landers?

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@magnemoe The bases look great! I'm trying to place some of the parts you're using. On the right hand tower, the angled crew module near that top that's 2.5 on top and 3.75 on the bottom. Also the 3.75m part directly below that. I don't recognize those windows.

Thanks

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11 hours ago, Sharpy said:

(KIS is the Inventory thing: boxes, kerbals carrying items etc.Also, the electric screwdriver that can be used to attach/detach parts outside VABKAS is the winch and winch accessories. Without KIS you won't attach pylons to the ground. Without KAS you won't have anything to attach ship to the pylons with. But with KAS you can still shoot harpoons.)

Does one need KIS to connect VAB-attached EVA strut connectors?

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Quite honestly I've found that precision landing on Gilly is so similar to docking that it can be done in a similar way. Most things I send there are designed to land using RCS (because most standard engines give me a thrust-to-weight ratio of over 50 even for the largest payloads) and if I need to land precisely I'll generally treat it like an orbital rendezvous because the gravity of Gilly is so negligible.

All that said, I haven't actually put a significantly large base (more than 2 or 3 modules) on Gilly in quite a while (since 1.0.4 I think). Since I'm currently in the process of designing a truly universal base system to compliment my slightly-less-new series of systematic station modules, Gilly is probably a good place to return to to test it all out (though going by some of my recent landings, I'll have to augment many of my modules to be attached using KAS).

Actually though, I have also wondered if it might be more practical to assemble an entire base in orbit of Gilly, centred around a single propulsion module, and then land the whole thing in one piece. Due to the fact that even a single Spark engine is overkill for most standard payloads to Gilly, it may prove to be a more effective method.

1 hour ago, tjt said:

@magnemoe The bases look great! I'm trying to place some of the parts you're using. On the right hand tower, the angled crew module near that top that's 2.5 on top and 3.75 on the bottom. Also the 3.75m part directly below that. I don't recognize those windows.

Thanks

Most of those parts are from the Planetary Base Systems mod. The parts you mentioned are actually one single part, and it's been added in a relatively recent update of the mod (which is why you may not recognise it even if you've used the mod in the past).

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2 hours ago, Wcmille said:

How much ore are you carrying up on your landers?

I've never actually USED the bases, so I don't recall. The last one was actually the entire Grand Tour ship and it was something like 8 of the biggest tanks of fuel (and some orange tanks too), plus 2 I think of the big ore tanks. The ship was totally full when I departed for Moho. And quite empty when I got there :)

If I was to do it again, I'd probably shoot for a rig that could land empty, mine and convert maybe 3 of the 14.4 tanks' worth, plus some RCS and full ore tanks because why not. And whatever engines are needed for that to have a decent TWR, which on Gilly means not that many engines.

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54 minutes ago, eloquentJane said:

Quite honestly I've found that precision landing on Gilly is so similar to docking that it can be done in a similar way. Most things I send there are designed to land using RCS (because most standard engines give me a thrust-to-weight ratio of over 50 even for the largest payloads) and if I need to land precisely I'll generally treat it like an orbital rendezvous because the gravity of Gilly is so negligible.

All that said, I haven't actually put a significantly large base (more than 2 or 3 modules) on Gilly in quite a while (since 1.0.4 I think). Since I'm currently in the process of designing a truly universal base system to compliment my slightly-less-new series of systematic station modules, Gilly is probably a good place to return to to test it all out (though going by some of my recent landings, I'll have to augment many of my modules to be attached using KAS).

Actually though, I have also wondered if it might be more practical to assemble an entire base in orbit of Gilly, centred around a single propulsion module, and then land the whole thing in one piece. Due to the fact that even a single Spark engine is overkill for most standard payloads to Gilly, it may prove to be a more effective method.

Most of those parts are from the Planetary Base Systems mod. The parts you mentioned are actually one single part, and it's been added in a relatively recent update of the mod (which is why you may not recognise it even if you've used the mod in the past).

Yes, the top part is an base core module and fairly new, it was not in the first versions of planetary bases. 
I then uses tubes down to the greenhouse and lab so it look like it passage there, then I added more reaction wheels. I could have had the tank as an seperate module but with it integrated the base can reach orbit on Duna, Moho and Vall.

Asemble stuff in orbit around Gilly makes sense, rovers don't work well on surface and as you say anything can land, main issue is that Gilly rotate fast and you use hours reaching the surface unless you burn downward, then you get down its more like docking, 

Another fun thing to do at Gilly orbit is to totaly ignore the standard rules, no reason not to not to change orbital direction to reach an target, it only cost 40 m/s or something. 
Have had kerbals with eva packs on surface reaching escape speeds using forced orbits to stay close to surface. 

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5 minutes ago, magnemoe said:

Another fun thing to do at Gilly orbit is to totaly ignore the standard rules

I'm currently wondering if I can assemble a base on the surface of Gilly using RCS and MechJeb's docking autopilot. I think I might do that once I've finalised my universal base system.

Edited by eloquentJane

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Just now, eloquentJane said:

I'm currently wondering if I can assemble a base on the surface of Gilly using RCS and MechJeb's docking autopilot.

this will confuse mechjeb a lot if it tries to move downward, however an top docking node would probably work, mechjeb would just see gravitation as an error and compensate similar to tidal effects as you and target are in different orbits. 
Same if port was above ground, perhaps putting something below an edge of base to tilt it up. 

Mechjeb was not able to dock the two side modules here as an straight passage inn would hit structure so I just had it point in the right direction then pushed out a meter and then in. 
BI57P4Vh.png
 

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A gilly base will be a first for me. My guess is that gilly has no good landing zones with large flat stretches like Mun, Minmus, or Ike. This probably greatly limits base construction, and risks bumping the base down a hill. I'm only getting 22 days at Gilly before the return window, so I struggle with losing the efficiencies of a fixed base.

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1 minute ago, Wcmille said:

A gilly base will be a first for me. My guess is that gilly has no good landing zones with large flat stretches like Mun, Minmus, or Ike. This probably greatly limits base construction, and risks bumping the base down a hill. I'm only getting 22 days at Gilly before the return window, so I struggle with losing the efficiencies of a fixed base.

If you're willing to use mods, I recommend KIS and KAS because they add (amongst other things) several methods of tethering your base to the ground. Also, if you're making a fixed base that you plan to make use of in future, why not just have any kerbals who are part of the initial base transport stay at the base for the year or two until the next return window?

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2 hours ago, eloquentJane said:

If you're willing to use mods, I recommend KIS and KAS because they add (amongst other things) several methods of tethering your base to the ground. Also, if you're making a fixed base that you plan to make use of in future, why not just have any kerbals who are part of the initial base transport stay at the base for the year or two until the next return window?

I'm only playing stock parts at the moment. I enjoy the constraint of the return window. I think I can get everything done on the time period I want, if I build the craft correctly.

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3 hours ago, Wcmille said:

A gilly base will be a first for me. My guess is that gilly has no good landing zones with large flat stretches like Mun, Minmus, or Ike. This probably greatly limits base construction, and risks bumping the base down a hill. I'm only getting 22 days at Gilly before the return window, so I struggle with losing the efficiencies of a fixed base.

Actually, counter-intuitively, Gilly Highlands (mountain-top area) are fairly flat. It's the lowlands with countless valleys and midlands (=slopes) that are bad. A bit like Minmus with its plateaus, except without frozen lakes below.

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On 17/08/2016 at 8:18 PM, Archgeek said:

Does one need KIS to connect VAB-attached EVA strut connectors?

Unfortunately struts don't work with kis 

You have to use the pipe thingies from kas

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We'll see how mine goes. 400 days until arrival, but it should be interesting.

Currently, four vessels of base infrastructure are en route.

- base hub, also carrying planetary base ISRU essentials.

H353NmU.png

 

- Manufacturer - a module based around the OSE Workshop, for building whatever the base might need

CxMJ3VA.png

- Relays - a set of satellites - a scansat, three smaller relay sats, and one large relay with large probe core, so that anything in range would get constant connectivity. even if occluded by Eve.

MPeZl2w.png

- Freight - anything too big to load up in the huge KIS container, plus an extra container, plus a bunch of smaller KIS containers...

9tXYz2I.png

*shrug* I'd swear I had a box filled to the brim with electric RCS thrusters I plan to attach to modules to move them around for assembly, but for the life of me, I can't locate it. It's somewhere in that mess, but where?!

 

3 hours ago, Palaceviking said:

Unfortunately struts don't work with kis 

You have to use the pipe thingies from kas

KAS also provides 'EVA struts'. Thingies you connect similarly to pipes, but work only within the same craft, and act just as normal struts.

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On 11/6/2016 at 8:04 AM, Palaceviking said:

Unfortunately struts don't work with kis 

You have to use the pipe thingies from kas

 

21 hours ago, Sharpy said:

KAS also provides 'EVA struts'. Thingies you connect similarly to pipes, but work only within the same craft, and act just as normal struts.

Cool, that answers my question--sounds like all one needs to use EVA struts is KAS.  Which is good, as KIS feels a mite cheesey to me, but I love the idea of designing missions around semi-complex ships "flatpacked" into a fairing with a micro-tug for assembly and KAS strut points for the crew to EVA and connect up to provide rigidity.  It would also increase the re-usabiltiy of interplanetary drive modules by letting narrow drives be used on wide payloads without excess derping.

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11 minutes ago, Archgeek said:

 

Cool, that answers my question--sounds like all one needs to use EVA struts is KAS.  Which is good, as KIS feels a mite cheesey to me, but I love the idea of designing missions around semi-complex ships "flatpacked" into a fairing with a micro-tug for assembly and KAS strut points for the crew to EVA and connect up to provide rigidity.  It would also increase the re-usabiltiy of interplanetary drive modules by letting narrow drives be used on wide payloads without excess derping.

Also - while it lasts - you can set up autostrut 'on the fly'. Supposedly editing autostrut is not meant to be accessible outside VAB/SPH, and may be removed in near future (before autostrut vanishes entirely) but you can still use it for now.

Personally, I love KIS. Its limit of 1 ton per kerbal is quite serious. Connecting modules of 7+ tons is a massive undertaking requiring strategocal placement of a lot of kerbals; meanwhile trivial repair jobs like replacing the antenna are routine and fun. Never mind the frustrations of assembly in zero-G. The engineer constantly floating, detached parts escaping into space, chasing them, hours of joy.

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22 hours ago, Sharpy said:

KAS also provides 'EVA struts'. Thingies you connect similarly to pipes, but work only within the same craft, and act just as normal struts.

Dmagic's "EVA Struts" and "EVA Transfer" provides both struts and pipes without the overhead of the whole KIS/KAS.

But strutting a base/lander to the ground is a bit different :/

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On 07/11/2016 at 3:41 PM, Sharpy said:

Never mind the frustrations of assembly in zero-G. The engineer constantly floating, detached parts escaping into space, chasing them, hours of joy.

You can resolve this bit by covering everything in bright yellow rails, or giving one to each Kerbal so they can place it down wherever they're working (I originally ringed my ships with the Pegasus ladders, but these rails are a lot less partcount intensive since they're designed to fit around fuselages in sixes). Despite the title, this actually still works (at least for 1.1.x). Incidentally fits in nicely with the aesthetic of USI Kolonization parts as well.

 

Edited by String Witch

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@String Witch Neat. I usually had the engineer carry a Pegasus whenever I wouldn't forget one. I know for a fact I did forget them for my Gilly base construction... gonna be the firstwork order for the 3D printing lab.

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