Why is this game still on the market place?

[John FX]

1 hour ago, Red Iron Crown said:

Nothing we say is going to make the game playable for them or convince anyone that Squad will deliver the patch, only releasing the patch itself will do that. 

Exactly my point, nothing said here will make the patch faster or slower and it won`t make squad change longstanding positions where they don`t comment on upcoming patches until what they comment on is pretty fixed.

If you want news of upcoming patches, you will be disappointed apart from what you read in the devnotes or announcements.

If you want to affect the schedule of upcoming patches, the only effect can be to delay them.

If you want to complain that squad are not doing what you would prefer, you have done that, as have we all at some point.

1 hour ago, The_Rocketeer said:

I can see that if you come here feeling wronged and expecting someone here should be able to give you some accountability to your concerns then the community's failure to do this is probably only more frustrating and disappointing, but that isn't the fault of the community or individual community members. Console-user members of this community need to understand that isn't what the forum primarily does

Again, this. The forum is a place where game users can share craft, share mission reports, release mods, suggest features for the game, generally help each other learning the game, give each other challenges and help each figure out if there is a workaround for bugs or whether the solution is to wait for the next patch.

Complaining about KSP and declaring it `broken` or `unplayable` is common and happens on the forum after almost every update (search on the forum for `moaning`) and does not affect the plans of Squad (or it`s contractors) in the slightest. Those plans DO include patching the console version of KSP though.

6 hours ago, KasperVld said:

we're working hard on getting a patch out - because we simply need to. A lot of what you say is true, people pay and expect a fully working game, but some of you are losing savegame data which ruins your gaming experience and that needs to be fixed. That said, I have to side with @Red Iron Crown here in that the forum rules still apply. There's currently no set release date for the patch - but we'll keep everyone updated as progress is made

I would hope that would suffice as Squad informing all of you as to the status of any upcoming patch as much as they ever will.

As I have already said and now Kasper has confirmed, they are working on it, they will not say when it will be released, they will not delay release for no reason.

Now if we could get back to normal forum discussions that would be great.

[nosirrbro]

And this is why I was sayimg a console port was a bad idea.

[razark]

3 hours ago, John FX said:

Now if we could get back to normal forum discussions that would be great.

Whining about KSP is normal forum discussion.

[Space Station 4 Crash]

Going through withdrawals. Finally called it quits after 4 sandbox, and 3 career corrupt games. That was 2 weeks ago. I made a game out of it. "Will the update come out in time to save my career before I lose everything". Even after all that it's still the best game I have ever played (it's tailored for me). They will fix it gang... they will. I've screwed up tons, I once let my kid eat a whole jar of pickles while I was trying to land on Duna, and that was 3 weeks ago ;). If Squad and FTE are small companies (understaffed) you should be yelling at them when they stop and make a post to address issues. "Why are you not working on my game!!! Get back to work, what are you doing on the forums!!!".

[m4v]

23 hours ago, The_Rocketeer said:

We do understand, we've seen it before, and even though it's painful it is not eternal, and changes are on the way.

 

7 hours ago, pandaman said:

Rest assured console players, that we fellow players on PC do understand, and fully sympathise with your problem.  We are pleased to welcome you to the game and the forums.  Unfortunately ALL we can offer is understanding, and some encouragement from our own experiences, that Squad have not forgotten you and will fix it as soon as they can.

The windows platform didn't get an update or release as breaking as Linux or consoles got, so I don't believe this "we do understand" is honest at all. I bet that if Window's users had corrupted saves or were forced to play in non-native resolutions for months nobody would have this "have patience, fixes are coming, Squad cares!" sort of attitude.

Edited September 1, 2016 by m4v

[Bandus]

 

7 hours ago, Red Iron Crown said:

I honestly don't think any of us can help the console players "move past it" until the game is working for them. The practical solutions offered don't fix their legitimate grievance, so they can't really be called solutions at all and can be interpreted as not considering their concerns as serious. Nothing we say is going to make the game playable for them or convince anyone that Squad will deliver the patch, only releasing the patch itself will do that. 

I concur with @Red Iron Crown. It seems that many of the console gamers are using this thread as a medium to vent, which is totally fine. Personally, I decided that after my last largeish posting that I would just step back from the thread for the most part because I saw that the thread wasn't going to go away until the patch is released.

[The_Rocketeer]

1 minute ago, m4v said:

The windows platform didn't get an update or release as breaking as Linux or consoles got, so I don't believe this "we do understand" is honest at all

Can you suggest a single reason I would have to be dishonest about it? Frankly I rather resent the implication.

The fact is I have had corrupted saves, I have had a game I would not play because I felt the experience was substandard or unrewarding, and I have seen that the cause is almost always fixed and forthcoming within a single update.

If you're not just stirring the pot, what is it that you would prefer we, as members of this community, did instead besides offer our experience and good faith in Squad for what little comfort it may be worth?

[pandaman]

@m4v.  Windows players have also had  big issues.  Not those unique to different OS's that's true, but to say I don't understand is quite frankly an insult.

I can 'understand' your situation even though I haven't experienced your exact problem.  But you believe what you will.

 By all means vent your frustration on here,  but please do not accuse us of not having a clue about your situation. 

[Sonny_Jim]

20 minutes ago, m4v said:

I bet that if Window's users had corrupted saves

I too have had saves get corrupted (not in a while though) and had to start from scratch.  More recently, I've had stations get afflicted with an 'unable to undock' bug, rendering them useless.  I've also had a craft just disappear from a stable orbit around Duna with the current PC version.

What I'm trying to say (badly) is that unfortunately, things like this have sort of become a 'way of life' when playing KSP.  I've actually got to the point where I try and 'roleplay' this incidents in my head and equate them to random catastrophes that can occur to a real space program.  As I've said in my earlier posts, I think one of things that is so jarring to the recent console players is that the PC players seem to just shrug and go 'oh well, it's Squad' whenever they have large chunks of their time and enjoyment ruined due to a stupid bug.  I know saying this does diddly squat to help you, but I'm pointing out that PC players have had their fair share of incredibly annoying bugs.  

So we do understand, kinda.  We've just slipped into some kind of weird Stockholm syndrome.

 

2 hours ago, Space Station 4 Crash said:

Get back to work, what are you doing on the forums!!!".

Well, tbh I do like the way they have weekly updates, at least it makes me feel like *something* is happening, which is I think one of the reasons why console players feel so hard done by at the moment.  AFAIK there hasn't been anything in the weekly devnotes about the problems with the console versions.  Hell, I got annoyed when Steam users got an update a week or so before the Store users, I can imagine what it's like to be a console player and to to see new things being added to the PC version when they haven't even got a working build for consoles yet.

 

 

[m4v]

@The Rocketeer @pandaman

Criticizing isn't insulting, if that's how you're going to argue then you leave no room for discussion.

31 minutes ago, pandaman said:

I can 'understand' your situation even though I haven't experienced your exact problem.

I see it everyday, I have experienced it myself, you don't genuinely understand until you have experienced it, and frankly saying that we do while knowing very well the crapstorm that would have occurred had the same thing happen in Windows isn't being honest at all.

29 minutes ago, The_Rocketeer said:

The fact is I have had corrupted saves, I have had a game I would not play because I felt the experience was substandard or unrewarding, and I have seen that the cause is almost always fixed and forthcoming within a single update.

 

9 minutes ago, Sonny_Jim said:

I too have had saves get corrupted (not in a while though) and had to start from scratch.  More recently, I've had stations get afflicted with an 'unable to undock' bug, rendering them useless.  I've also had a craft just disappear from a stable orbit around Duna with the current PC version.

Not the same, this isn't the occasional corruption you had during early access, this is systematic corruption in a finished game. All the big issues Windows had since 1.0 were gameplay bugs that affected one aspect of the game, like reentry, wheels or docking ports, and Squad always patching in a short while. Nothing like that from this side where you have systematic issues that break every aspect of the game, for months.

[Sonny_Jim]

2 minutes ago, m4v said:

All the big issues Windows had since 1.0 were gameplay bugs that affected one aspect of the game, like reentry, wheels or docking ports, and Squad always patching in a short while.

I don't know about Squad patching PC bugs quickly.  Case in point is the problem with Kerbals sliding up ladders all by themselves.  That's been present for, oh I dunno, probably 3 years?  They've literally only just found a fix.  I know it's not on the same scale, but again, just saying there is a reason why the PC guys aren't exactly surprised at the slow progress of the console fix.  Hence why a lot of them seem very complacent towards what must be an absolute PITA for you.

I agree with you that PC players have never had a bug as bad as the console versions, or at least one as severe as the current console bug that shouldn't have been there in the first place and *still* has no fix after ~6 weeks.

[The_Rocketeer]

12 minutes ago, m4v said:

Criticizing isn't insulting

1 hour ago, m4v said:

I don't believe this "we do understand" is honest at all.

This is not criticism, this is an accusation of dishonesty. You are saying you believe I (amongst others) am a liar. If you didn't mean it I would like an apology. If you did, I would like you to justify your claim with some sort of evidence or reasoning. I don't believe you have either.

1 hour ago, m4v said:

I bet that if Window's users had corrupted saves or were forced to play in non-native resolutions for months nobody would have this "have patience, fixes are coming, Squad cares!" sort of attitude.

Many of us have had multiple corrupted saves in which we lost not days or hours of stuff, but months and years. And yes, we do (some of us) take the 'have patience, fixes are coming' attitude. It is the truth of what is actually happening, and frankly the only way to get what you're after - assuming of course that what you're after is a fix.

Again @m4v:

Quote

If you're not just stirring the pot, what is it that you would prefer we, as members of this community, did instead besides offer our experience and good faith in Squad for what little comfort it may be worth?

 

Edited September 1, 2016 by The_Rocketeer

[m4v]

35 minutes ago, The_Rocketeer said:

This is not criticism, this is an accusation of dishonesty. You are saying you believe I (amongst others) am a liar. If you didn't mean it I would like an apology. If you did, I would like you to justify your claim with some sort of evidence or reasoning. I don't believe you have either.

If you're going to get this technical then I going to point out that you never said "I do understand" but "we do understand" and I'm not the nice kind of person that thinks that when somebody makes a claim that relies on PC users not having any jerks is making it honestly.

 

35 minutes ago, The_Rocketeer said:

frankly the only way to get what you're after - assuming of course that what you're after is a fix.

What I want is Squad to stop capitalizing the hype that comes with every release and stop breaking whole platforms with it. I don't buy that this was a QA issue when the issues were in plain view for anyone willing to play KSP for a day, more like "release anyway, cash in, fix later".

Edited September 1, 2016 by m4v

[The_Rocketeer]

4 minutes ago, m4v said:

I'm not the nice kind of person that thinks that when somebody makes a claim that relies on PC users not having any jerks is making it honestly.

I can tell. But what you're talking about here isn't honesty, it's accuracy. The claims I have made for myself and others, while vague about exclusivity, have been honest. So I'd still like that apology please. Actually, I'll let it go with a simple retraction/correction. Seems to work for Rupert Murdoch, and he's not a nice kind of person either.
 

5 minutes ago, m4v said:

What I want is Squad to stop capitalizing the hype that comes with every release and stop breaking whole platforms with it. I don't buy that this was a QA issue when the issues were in plain view for anyone willing to play KSP for a day, more like "release anyway, cash in, fix later".

I can understand this, even though I hold no view on whether you're right or wrong about Squad's business practices. However your posts in this thread cannot and will not achieve this. So I don't really understand how you are benefiting from your participation in this discussion. You have also (again) ignored my request for suggestions of something else I/we PC gamers can do that would be more useful that what we have done so far. This community, after all, is the primary target audience of any post published here.

[John FX]

So, what is the point of this discussion?

What are the console players who post here trying to achieve?

Squad has commented here, about the issue you have, and supplied the only information it will. The update is coming soon^tm.

What can we as a community do which will slow down the number of posts in this thread?

Just to be clear, we can`t write a patch or stop the issue in any way.

 

29 minutes ago, m4v said:

If you're going to get this technical then I going to point out that you never said "I do understand" but "we do understand" and I'm not the nice kind of person that thinks that when somebody makes a claim that relies on PC users not having any jerks is making it honestly.

Now this is just unnecessary. Is it possible for you to reply in a way which will not escalate this discussion into an argument? Please?

Now it seems you don`t believe we as a community have ever been upset about game breaking bugs. Trust me, we have. Also just to clarify a point which should not need it, when I say `we` I mean a subset of the community that has. Some members just lurk, some post only craft, some only mission reports, some are very vocal about any issues they may have, some have issues and do not post about them. I don`t know what other forums you post in but I have a hard time thinking of a single jerk on this one. Please keep your general insults to yourself and other forums.

[razark]

5 minutes ago, John FX said:

What can we as a community do which will slow down the number of posts in this thread?

Not post complaints about the existence of this thread?

[John FX]

1 minute ago, razark said:

Not post complaints about the existence of this thread?

or reply to them?

[razark]

You asked.  I answered. 

I didn't say I had a problem with this thread.  Letting people vent and post their complaints is fine.  If you don't want to see it, you know not to click on the thread.

Edited September 1, 2016 by razark

[John FX]

4 minutes ago, razark said:

You asked.  I answered. 

I didn't say I had a problem with this thread.

What *do* you have a problem with? you seem to only be replying to me...

EDIT : Just to be clear, I don`t have a problem with the existence of the thread, just the extended nature of it and the argumentative tone and repetition it has descended into. It`s pointless and is just causing friction at this point and not doing anything to help the people experiencing the issue it was made to address. Squad staff have posted and said all they will. The update will be soon^tm

Edited September 1, 2016 by John FX
clarity

[The_Rocketeer]

My spidey-sense suggests this thread will be closed soon, so before it is I'd like to apologise and retract any derailing involvement of mine. The best intentions and all that.

[Sonny_Jim]

1 hour ago, The_Rocketeer said:

assuming of course that what you're after is a fix.

Insinuating that someone doesn't have a valid point of view and is only commenting to stir the pot isn't really a productive thing to say.  Just tends to pour fuel onto the flames.  Assuming of course that what you're after is an apology /s ;-)

 

36 minutes ago, John FX said:

I don`t have a problem with the existence of the thread, just the extended nature of it and the argumentative tone and repetition it has descended into.

This confuses me, as you just said this:

36 minutes ago, John FX said:

What *do* you have a problem with?

Your tone could be considered argumentative as well, you know.  If this thread winds you up and you aren't getting anything positive from it, then my advice would be to simply ignore it.

20 minutes ago, The_Rocketeer said:

My spidey-sense suggests this thread will be closed soon

I'm not sure why you feel this way.  At least for the time being it keeps the grievances about the console versions into a single thread rather than spilling into multiple threads, dev notes etc

Edited September 2, 2016 by Sonny_Jim

[razark]

4 minutes ago, Sonny_Jim said:

I'm not sure why you feel this way.

Because it's broken down more into a discussion about the thread than about the issues in the thread.  It might be different if the discussion was about the console issues and fixes, rather than why the console people have no reason to complain and should just sit down, shut up, praise the great Squad, and consider themselves blessed just to be allowed to experience the bugs they're allowed to experience.

 

5 minutes ago, Sonny_Jim said:

At least for the time being it keeps the grievances about the console versions into a single thread rather than spilling into multiple threads, dev notes etc

Very true, and a good reason to let it be.

[John FX]

8 minutes ago, razark said:

It might be different if the discussion was about the console issues and fixes

It has not been for a while, before I started posting.

If it were, then the post from a member of staff at Squad explaining that there *is* an update in the works, it *is* seen as important, but no, they will not give a release date but will keep us informed would have had an effect.

8 minutes ago, razark said:

rather than why the console people have no reason to complain and should just sit down, shut up, praise the great Squad, and consider themselves blessed

Nobody is saying that but there comes a point where more comments with the same content from the same people just becomes pointless and disruptive. Console players do have reason to complain, and they have, for 17 pages over 14 days...

[razark]

5 minutes ago, John FX said:

It has not been for a while

And it has been closed already.

 

4 minutes ago, John FX said:

the post from a member of staff at Squad explaining that there *is* an update in the works, it *is* seen as important, but no, they will not give a release date but will keep us informed

And it took well over a week and fifteen and a half pages to get that.

 

5 minutes ago, John FX said:

Console players do have reason to complain, and they have, for 17 pages over 14 days...

If you dislike the content, don't open the thread.  Skip right on by it.  If you don't see it, it won't disrupt you.

[John FX]

<drunken ramblings>

sorry everyone for being uncool in your thread, I`ll go away now.

Edited September 2, 2016 by John FX