shipuploader

science tools that shoud be added soon.

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Can you add the things I have here to KSP?

-magnetometer: used to measure the Magnetic field.

-Sample drill arm: for taking a sample on unmanned missions.

-Radiometer: It measures the amount of Infrared radiation.

What do you think?

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I agree. They should also collect usable data, not some "unlock points" used in the research of tech.

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Yes to the first two. The third maybe, it seems like it would just give us a heatmap and I could see that being useful I suppose. The unmanned sample return would be amazing.

 

I still say a good chunk of our real world science is from imagery/telescopes. I really really want parts to build a space telescope. 1 Hubble type part, 1 JWST type part.

Edited by r4pt0r

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That could be pretty interesting. Sample return could give you some science upon taking it, more if you return it, but shouldn't be worth as much as a manned sample. 

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29 minutes ago, Choctofliatrio2.0 said:

That could be pretty interesting. Sample return could give you some science upon taking it, more if you return it, but shouldn't be worth as much as a manned sample. 

How does a man-gathered soil sample differ from the one scooped up by a robot? Especially when they are both returned.

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Just now, Veeltch said:

How does a man-gathered soil sample differ from the one scooped up by a robot? Especially when they are both returned.

I figure manned missions can return many more samples than a robotic mission. Apollo 11 brought back many kilograms of materials, while similar robotic missions like the Luna program only returned a few grams at most.

Besides, from a gameplay perspective, it makes manned missions have a more value and use

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19 minutes ago, Choctofliatrio2.0 said:

I figure manned missions can return many more samples than a robotic mission. Apollo 11 brought back many kilograms of materials, while similar robotic missions like the Luna program only returned a few grams at most.

Besides, from a gameplay perspective, it makes manned missions have a more value and use

An point, however an manned missions has multiple other benefits like holding multiple samples in cockpit. The probe sampler might analyze and transmit, then do an second sample but it can only hold one sample.
An cool feature would be to let us drop the drill part to save weight. 
 

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I would appreciate an orbital scanning device that generates a height map and biome map, so that it's easier to find out where the best landing sites are for gathering science or placing bases.

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I should be worth less because the robot can oly get samples from one spot, whereas kerbonaughts can pick up both the whitish rock and the greenish one.

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The sample arm results should only be transmittable.  That's how they really work, the craft itself analyzes it -- and we don't want to remove the point of doing manned missions.

Telescopes are a nifty idea but as a game mechanic they'd become a one-shot wonder like the ore scanning dish, the concept doesn't translate very well.

Or...  Hm.  What if a telescope was needed to see realistic planet views?  If your ship didn't have one, you'd only see a vector diagram in the map view.

Edited by Corona688

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On 23/08/2016 at 3:07 AM, magnemoe said:

An point, however an manned missions has multiple other benefits like holding multiple samples in cockpit. The probe sampler might analyze and transmit, then do an second sample but it can only hold one sample.
An cool feature would be to let us drop the drill part to save weight. 
 

Well if the drill part can be dropped it sort of implies there is also a canister part that could be replaced by a Scientist Kerbal. Allowing both surface and core samples on kerbaled missions and in multiple places. While a probe mission might only get a material sample that is a mix of the two. 

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11 hours ago, Corona688 said:

The sample arm results should only be transmittable.  That's how they really work, the craft itself analyzes it -- and we don't want to remove the point of doing manned missions.

That's not true IRL. There are planned robotic missions that would go to Mars (and/or Phobos I think), gather a soil sample and bring it back. Also think about comet missions like Stardust. They gather the samples AND brought them back.

And please, don't argue that this is KSP and it's only a game. Science system is FUBAR even though a lot of people think it's good. Limiting others' gameplay style just because it's a game isn't a good idea.

11 hours ago, Corona688 said:

 

Telescopes are a nifty idea but as a game mechanic they'd become a one-shot wonder like the ore scanning dish, the concept doesn't translate very well.

 

Also not true. Look at what Cassini has been doing for all these years. Telescopes are great tools that provide a lot of scientific data (infrared, UV light, X-ray, navigation and many more) and they shouldn't be regarded as a one time thing. If it wasn't for a camera/telescope on Cassini we wouldn't know Enceladus has a sub-surface ocean. Also think about stellar objects like nebulae and galsxies. Kerbol system shouldn't be the only one to be observed. And don't forget about cameras on rovers. They are very importnant too.

And again: just because SQUAD made the experiments a one-time-use events doesn't mean it has to work like that. Not only gathering science and converting it to tech is limiting, but also not very satisfying. The whole idea of "going there to unlock more tech to go there again and actually land this time because I finally unlocked the landing legs" is ridiculously wrong and should change. Why do I need to go to the Mun to unlock the damn wheels and ladders? It just doesn't make sense.

Edited by Veeltch

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10 hours ago, Veeltch said:

That's not true IRL. There are planned robotic missions that would go to Mars (and/or Phobos I think), gather a soil sample and bring it back.

Phobos, I might believe.  Mars itself would be an enormous undertaking.  The sample size of a robotic miner would also be tiny, compared to the hundreds of pounds of rocks NASA's astronauts brought back from the moon.

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Also think about comet missions like Stardust. They gather the samples AND brought them back.

That's more like the materials bay, which samples its environment too.

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And please, don't argue that this is KSP and it's only a game.

Why not?  Game mechanics is exactly the question.  How do we make this game thing ape this real-life thing in a way that's enjoyable.

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Also not true. Look at what Cassini has been doing for all these years.

But then the idea becomes, rather than "new science part", "remake the universe to better accommodate this idea".  That might be nice but I don't think it's likely.  A simpler idea can go far if it's good enough, cover most of the ground you wanted, and actually happen rather than just being a distant wish.

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Just because SQUAD made the experiments a one-time-use events doesn't mean it has to work like that.

Completely agreed...  I was surprised the polar scanner dish was a one-scan-per-planet-with-instant-results deal.  The polar orbit is just for show.

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Not only gathering science and converting it to tech is limiting, but also not very satisfying.

Depends how you play it.  Once you've got decouplers and strap-on batteries, there's not a lot to stop you from going to the mun if you really want to.

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The whole idea of "going there to unlock more tech to go there again and actually land this time because I finally unlocked the landing legs" is ridiculously wrong and should change. Why do I need to go to the Mun to unlock the damn wheels and ladders? It just doesn't make sense.

The parts are unlocked roughly in the order Squad created them.  Original engines, basic tanks, stationary fins.  Then the bigger + better tanks everyone was modding in, movable fins, improved engines.  Then you get snakes legs and ladders.  Then the rover wheels from the third generation game, the really specialized engines, etc.

And yes, it doesn't make sense.

Edited by Corona688

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1 hour ago, Corona688 said:

Depends how you play it.  Once you've got decouplers and strap-on batteries, there's not a lot to stop you from going to the mun if you really want to.

Well, there's not much flexibility in what we call "playstyles". There's only one way which is The SQUAD Way. There really should be a career overhaul that changes the way the tech tree looks and is unlocked.

I would like, for example start a career mode with atmospheric engines and progress towards reusable SSTOs. And I guess I could set science rewards to the maximum and unlock the tree in one go, but then this kind of "progression" would make no sense since all the goodies that interest me are at the end of the tree.

I went to the Mun and Minmus before. I even went further. I really consider myself a KSP veteran and I would like to enjoy this game in a different way than before. Right now there's only one way to do so. KSP's science-to-tech system gives almost no flexibility.

But people already got used to it and there's no point in changing it, I guess...

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43 minutes ago, Veeltch said:

I would like, for example start a career mode with atmospheric engines and progress towards reusable SSTOs. And I guess I could set science rewards to the maximum and unlock the tree in one go, but then this kind of "progression" would make no sense since all the goodies that interest me are at the end of the tree.

I've seen playthroughs which do that -- building their first rickety, dangerous "aircraft" out of cockpits, solids, and girders, and working all the way up to spaceplanes.  This was before the Juno, which would have made this progression a lot easier.

Which isn't to say that the tech tree supports and encourages this, of course.  There'd be a fair amount of grinding and scrounging to force it to work your direction.

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I went to the Mun and Minmus before. I even went further. I really consider myself a KSP veteran and I would like to enjoy this game in a different way than before.

For must-have features and game-breaking omissions, "There's a mod for that" is a rude answer, but for free gameplay expansions, mods are almost the only answer -- the only answer which isn't asking Squad to produce new content for free.

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Right now there's only one way to do so. KSP's science-to-tech system gives almost no flexibility.

But people already got used to it and there's no point in changing it, I guess...

New users aren't used to it and old users don't like it, so I think there's plenty point in changing it.  There's mods for it already of course, but Squad could give it a serious rethink and organize the depth of the branches by complexity, rather than the order they were added to the game.

Seriously, that's the only reason seprotrons and I-beams aren't tier 0.  They're not high tech!

Edited by Corona688

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Space telescopes would be pretty cool. Mentioned a while back were cameras, having probes send images back for science/funds would be sweet.

 

Probably best for an addon, but having Kerbal medical experiments, eg keep a Kerbal + scientist in a mobile lab in X location for Y time, one could do medical experiments on location and/or get points when they get back home to Kerbin.

Edited by Waxing_Kibbous

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I just wish they would remake the tech tree to be more reasonable. By the time you get rovers, the tree is almost done.

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On 8/25/2016 at 6:50 PM, Corona688 said:

The sample arm results should only be transmittable.  That's how they really work, the craft itself analyzes it -- and we don't want to remove the point of doing manned missions.

The problem with the current system is actually the opposite of yours. There ISNT a point in doing unmanned mission, everything you can possibly do with unmanned can be done by just 1 Kerbal and be 100% better returns.

Build a ship that can safely land and deploy arm/drill equipped rover, let it drive itself around picking up samples from a few biomes and return to the landing craft. Docking port or full up ramp, and the whole package lofts back into orbit and plots a course back to Kerbin with the soil samples for each biome visited.

-vs-

Build a ship that can safely land a Kerbal who runs or drive itself around picking up samples from a few biomes and return to the landing craft. Re-boards and the whole package lofts back into orbit and plots a course back to Kerbin with the soil samples in addition to having a Crew Report and EVA report for each biome visited.

---

Kerbals can still add crew reports, eva reports which no unmanned mission can ever do, but a sample is a sample is a sample. Especially if it's returned to a lab or Kerbin, because right now a sample from X biome is a sample from X biome, let's use the example of the Mun. Highlands is highlands, it doesn't matter what part of the highlands you sample, I could put 2 different Kerbals on totally opposite sides of the Mun Highlands, and collect samples with each. Using two saves, before collecting each Kerbal, the science value from each will be identical despite having been collected from exact opposite sides of the Mun. How is a robotic arm or drill collecting a soil sample any different then, if we already have zero differences internally from a biome?

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It'd turn the existing gameplay inside out.  If your point is just "I know that, that's why I want it", it's difficult to argue with that.

Edited by Corona688

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