[WIP] Rald planet/moon addon, basically a terraformed mars

[eddiew]

24 minutes ago, KerikBalm said:

Uploading now...

Sweet, thank you   Might be tomorrow before I get to it now, but it's definitely on my todo list first thing. Glad I held off dropping that surface base now - although I did ship a fuel tanker out to Rald orbit so the exploration team can do another lap ^^

(...should have made it a mk3 plane with a lab on board. Foolish me sent a the tiniest mk2 that was up for the job ) 

[KerikBalm]

for some reason, when I converted the unmodified height.dds to a .png file... it wasn't quite the same, and I had to change the height offset by a few hundred meters before I got the sea level to be about right. I had to convert to a .png file because I don't know how to edit .dds files. You may notice the elevation has changed at certain locations... its "close" to what it was before... I don't know why its not exactly the same (aside from the areas I edited specifically). Anyway, it still *looks* the same as it did before. I'll be sticking with the .png format as I know how to edit that.

I think a surface base on the ground before would still be fine as "landed" craft get snapped to terrain level on load... but whatever

[eddiew]

Done on the previous release, might as well post while it's still in public memory  

My KRnD turbocharged engines are continuing to be epic, and with the increased wing area, cruising throttle is now about 20-25%. Landings can still be hard due to the speed required, but some ventral vernors help take the edge off. Or they would, if I had left any oxidiser in the tank after the ascent from Kerbin. Maybe a couple of sealed Oscars in the cargo bay are in order.

[KerikBalm]

Well, the previous release isn't very different from this one.

"Glad I held off dropping that surface base now"

Well, it should be fine. You may be referring to the runway as a nice location for a base, but keep in mind that while its really long and prefectly flat (well, not like the KSC runway that is completely straight, this one curves with the curvature of the planet... - its always normal to the force of gravity) - its not by anything "green" and its at a higher elevation. There are some pretty flat places right near sea level that are also green, and you may wish to use them as a location for a surface base instead.

Indeed, that "marshy" area I mentioned earlier is also exceptionally flat.

[eddiew]

I did notice about the curving runway   I also noticed that the Firebird III needs a suspension adjustment for Rald. It's not that heavy, and even with a low vertical speed of -2m/s, it bounces horribly even on the flattest surfaces. Next missions will be with a heavier vessel based on the mk3 Truffleshuttle, which hopefully won't have the same issues.

After a sustained aerial survey, I think I will go with my original riverside location, tbh. The ancient runway is good, but it's kind of... brown. I want to put my kerbals somewhere with green goo/grass and water, rather than in the middle of the desert ^^;

Spoiler

(Side note; Firebird III flies wonderfully on Rald, but is scary to re-enter on Kerbin. The wings display a lot of flex at more than x2 timewarp, so it was a long, slow approach to KSC... but River and Nimoy Kerman both made it and advanced to 2-stars, so all in all that's a good day!)

Edited August 30, 2016 by eddiew

[KerikBalm]

Quote

I want to put my kerbals somewhere with green goo/grass and water, rather than in the middle of the desert ^^;

Exactly why I didn't put it there... my intent is to have the easter eggs be unobtrusive to normal gameplay/story narrative. I figured the coastal "green" areas would attract the most attention/exploration/focus in a mission narrative.... I don't want to go sticking alien megastructures into some narrative about exploring a world that hasn't gone much beyond something equivalent to cyanobacteria or maybe algae (what I originally had in mind).

I imagine that hte cratered desert highlands won't get nearly as many visits, so thats where I stuck most of the stuff to make it "hidden". Of course, to be "functional" the air/spaceport and associated "infrastructure/support complex" would ideally be equatorial, but the rest of the stuff is farther from the equator.

Spoiler

The big pyramid is not near anything resembling an ancient coast. Its to the south of the Tharsis/Karsis plateau.

There is a 2nd small pyramid near a current coast to the north, but only 2/3 the height above its base compared to the pig pyramid. There are additionally someother groups of square/rectangular structures nearish to a coast or river valley (2 or 3 if I remember), also associsted with them are those holes which I sort of intended to represent entrances to underground complexes/wells to get water when the water receded too far.

My initial narrative is that its a dying world... like mars but dying slower. Conditions were better in the past when the water level was higher, but evolution was too slow and its never really reached true multicellular life. Early in the formation of the kerbal's system when the impact rate was higher, life was flung from kerbin to rald and/or vice versa - so the life is related but has billions of years of divergence (if it was earth life, not kerbin, lets say that archea and eubacteria are there, but Eukaryotes came after/didn't survive the journey)

 

I'm toying with the idea that an ancient civilization developed and had to abandon the world as conditions grew marginal. Their coastal cities became inland cities, their inland cities became uninhbaited deserts, and finally the entire atmosphere because too thin to breath... there is still a common ancestor with kerbin life as in the previous narrative. They are the ones that made the face on Duna, Vallhenge, the duna rovercam, the SSTV signal (unsure about saucers and the monoliths). They may or may not have colonized kerbin and may or may not be the ancestors of the kerbals. Maybe the few that made it to kerbin were wiped out by disease/viruses/infection bacteria upon landing, and their kerbin colonies all died and with it their hope of survival...

Whether this world is at L4, next to duna, or orbiting kerbin could affect which narrative you choose.

I don't really have a clear narrative... I still sort of favor the initial narrative with those easter eggs being just easter eggs that should be ignored for narrative/role playing purposes (like the kraken on Bop, or the saucer at one of kerbin's poles as a probable reference to "the thing"

Or you can build your own narrative.

Maybe the kerbal ancestors were super smart and colonized it... but then events similar to what happened in "idiocracy" occured that caused those colonies to fail, and googly eyed kerbals like Bob being among the top scientists

[KerikBalm]

Well, I can't figure this problem out....the soi of the geostationary moons are way too big.

I got out a spreadsheet, calculated at what distance a craft should fall towards one body or the other, and tried to set that as the SOI... but its still not working:

I've gotta go ask for help elsewhere...

I seem to recall similar issues with the version of Rald at geostationary orbit.

 

Also, for the duna version, I changed the atmosphere color and the lighting:

 

Edited September 3, 2016 by KerikBalm

[eddiew]

New atmo is lovely   Don't know about the SoI thing though... I hadn't noticed Rald getting in my way, but I probably didn't have anything above ~120km orbit and wasn't testing for it.

[KerikBalm]

Well, I don't know why ksp was calculating the default SOI size so badly...  so I tried manually defining them...but I had a typo in the .cfg. its "sphereOfInfluence" not "SphereOfInfluence" ... so its fixed now.

I suspect the SOI thing is because IRL SOIs are not true spheres. The SOI is "squished" inward on the side facing the larger body, and extended on the side opposite the largest body. When the body orbits in close, this difference can be quite large. Its why Sun-Earth L1 and L2 aren't the same distance from the Earth. So I've defined the SOI radius to be the smaller radius of L1 for all the bodies that I'm changing.

 

Also I noticed that the last time I uploaded things, I left out the science report file, so it just has the default science data... it will be back in the next upload. I plan on tweaking the atmosphere for some versions(leaving at least the inner moon more bluish so it looks more kerbin like if its going ot be a binary with kerbin), and doing another upload for:

Rald-Geostationary Orbit: SOI fixed

Rald-Old Minmus Orbit, Minmus as moon of Rald: SOI fixed for both

Rald Sun-KerbinL4: new atmo color

Larger Rald-Old Duna Orbit, Duna as Moon: SOI fixed for Duna, new atmo color for rald + 3 options for Ike;

- Ike to Sun-Kerbin L4

- Ike to an orbit similar to dres (ie make it the 2nd most massive object in the"asteroid belt")

- Ike as a moon of Rald-Duna in a much more distant orbit, analogues to stock minmus around kerbin.

Edited September 4, 2016 by KerikBalm

[eddiew]

So many choices   Does Duna-Rald have a better science multiplier than Minmus-Rald?

[Benji13]

This looks really nice but I'm a bit confused. Is there a version that puts Rald between Eve and Kerbin? If not can anyone post a copy of the .cfg needed to put it there, or atleast some detailed instructions? Im hopeless with that stuff. Thanks,

Benji13.

edit: Nevermind I worked it out. Wasn't as hard as I thought. I put Rald exactly between Eve and Kerbin. And I mean exactly. Can't wait to explore.

Edited September 7, 2016 by Benji13

[KerikBalm]

- Put it anywhere you want, but I won't be making a version that orbits inside kerbin... An atmosphere and oceans wouldn't last long enough that close in if the planet is small, and if the planet is large... I don't think the orbits would be stable in a true N-body simulation, so I'm not going to do it for "realism"

 

Tomorrow evening I plan on uploading a new version:

#1) Includes the .cfgs for the Duna version, and the resulting .cfgs moving ike somewhere else

#2) Some new atmosphere colors for all except the inner moon version (I want that to seem more kerbin-like than the others)

#3) The "Dunes" biome has been split into a "Lowlands" and "Dunes" biome... I'll modify some science reports to reflect that the lowlands have green stuff growing, whereas the dunes are reddish and don't.

#4) I'm also going to change the science multipliers so that the versions closer to kerbin have lower science yields.

#5) Easter egg biomes (except the submerged face... but I may add that after all).

-  Rald has 3 pyramids, one is the bigger than the other two (the one I showed pics of), all 3 share the same "pyramids" biome... look for it in the biome map if you want to find them.

- The runway now has its own biome, and that collection of structures near it has an "ancient city" biome

- There are additionally 2 other collections of artificial structures, which get the "ancient settlements" biome.

Thus there will be 4 new biomes in this version (Lowlands, pyramids, ancient city, ancient settlements). I'll give them custom crew and EVA reports, but they won't give much information aside from an observation that there are artificial structures resembling _____ or something like that.

#6) I'll be including a readme file to properly attribute the source of the color and heightmaps.

 

I hope it won't get too complicated with multiple choices of .cfgs to place Rald at 4 places (Inner moon, outer moon, L4, Duna), and then the duna location cfg is going to be complicated too... with 3 choices for the displaced ike... Sun-Kerbin L4, an outer moon of Rald-Duna (like minmus), or another Dres like body in the "asteroid" belt.... weeee choices, choices....

I'm still not moving it in closer than kerbin orbit, or farther than duna's orbit... those seas shouldn't boil off (keep in mind, thin atmosphere = lower boiling point), they shouldn't freeze, and even as a laythe-like moon with "tidal heating"...thats no explanation for green color/photosynthesis if its orbiting at jool or behond where the light is so weak.

 

 

*edit* well, I went a little further and defined even more biomes... so for now, I think the custom science reports for some of these new biomes will be repeats of other ones, or they won't have custom science reports. Even with a low multiplier, there will be a lot of science available... but you'll have to traverse a lot of the planet to get that science... the biome list:

Polar Caps
Kraken Mare (The northern ocean)
Kellas Sea (the flooded impact crater corresponding to the Hellas basin of Mars
*** Lowlands
*** Lesser Volcanoes
*** Large Eroded Volcano
*** Krakatowa Gulf (The bay/gulf feature next to the large volcano derived from Olympus Mons)
*** Bay of Rivers (The bay that the delta from the rift valley emptires into)
*** Curiosity Cove (A bay or cove formed by a large impact crater that is connected to the northern ocean)
*** Frigid Fjord (A narrow bay formed by a groove in the northern ice cap)
*** Pyramids -Easter Egg Biome
*** Ancient Settlements -Easter Egg Biome
*** Ancient City -Easter Egg Biome
***Ancient Airport -Easter Egg Biome
Dunes
Karsis Plateau
Great Rift Valley
Kargyre Impact Basin
Rivers
Volcanoes
Coasts

*** Denotes newly added biomes... that adds up to 21 biomes. I note that I can make some biomes count for less science than other biomes.

I'm thinking about making the bay/gulf/cove/Mare biomes worth 0.5x the science, since they used to be just 1 biome.

Maybe I'll make the lesser and eroded volcanoes worth only 0.5x the science as well.

For the Easter egg biomes... they're there as a small reward, and a record of having found them... I'll hit them pretty hard and give them 0.1x science rewards.

 

Edited September 10, 2016 by KerikBalm

[KerikBalm]

new dropbox link posted in the first post.

I haven't actually tested many of the changes because I've been playing a KR&D career and I'm not to Duna/Rald yet (maybe I should have chosen the InnerMoon version :p)... so let me know if you see anything screwed up.

[JadeOfMaar]

Howdy gentlemen. I thought I'd drop by again and I'm glad I did. There's so much innovation and inspiration here. I love the new Duna-Rald and it's always a pleasant sight to see Rald in what eddie did in KSP [today]. If I may, KerikBalm, I'd like to see how you give biomes individual science multipliers? That would come in so handy.

[eddiew]

Oooh, new update, nice

Please tell me the smiley crater has a "Happy Biome" with an EVA report "You feel unusually relaxed and cheerful in this crater"?  

[JadeOfMaar]

Heheh.

 

Spoiler

 

Atmosphere Analysis

You discover a significant presence of pheromone-like compounds in the air down here. You scienced all day but now feel you can science all night.

 

 

[KerikBalm]

Well, I didn't add a smiley face biome... as someone could easily get science data from it without actually finding it under the sea

[njmksr]

Loving Duna-Rald and Kerbin-Rald.  

I feel like kerbistationary orbit will produce cooler screenshot, but Duna-Rald will be more fun.

 

Also, why no jets? I feel like we should be able to use jets on Rald. 

IDK why but I do.

Edited September 12, 2016 by njmksr

[KerikBalm]

You can use jets on Rald....

The wheesley, goliath, and Juno sort of suck because of the thin air, but you can use them. For the inner moon version I thickened the lower atmosphere by 15% so early tech tree airbreathers are more viable.

For the Rald-Duna version especially I have no intention of removing the ability to use jets, as that version of Rald is sufficiently big enough that Rapiers don't toss you to ridiculous heights like a 600 km apoapsis with a PE above the ground

[Benji13]

Can anyone suggest good landing sites that aren't in the desert? Preferably green, near water with little slope. Thanks to any suggestions,

Benji13

[njmksr]

3 hours ago, KerikBalm said:

You can use jets on Rald....

The wheesley, goliath, and Juno sort of suck because of the thin air, but you can use them. For the inner moon version I thickened the lower atmosphere by 15% so early tech tree airbreathers are more viable.

For the Rald-Duna version especially I have no intention of removing the ability to use jets, as that version of Rald is sufficiently big enough that Rapiers don't toss you to ridiculous heights like a 600 km apoapsis with a PE above the ground

Oh, OK. Thank you... This planet is beautiful.

[KerikBalm]

8 hours ago, Benji13 said:

Can anyone suggest good landing sites that aren't in the desert? Preferably green, near water with little slope. Thanks to any suggestions,

Benji13

Well, at least on my game it came out looking more yellowish than greenish from up close (but from orbit, at least contrasted with the red of the rest of the planet, it looks green), but the area surrounding what is now called "Krakatoa Gulf" would fit that requirement... its the area south/west of the volcano derived from Olympus mons.

Its very flat.... just the (purely visual) waves from using scatterer cause a large area of the plains to look wet:

that water is purely visual (and you don't get that effect without scatterer adding waves and reflection to the water)... the land is nice and solid to land on.

Its the area to the left (south) of this image:

Its the area that was previosuly underwater when my height and color maps didn't match so well... that area is so flat that the water being 10 meters higher results in very large areas being flooded:

That crater in the center that is still not flooded is the same one that you can see in the first 2 images in this post (in the 2nd image, its harder to recognize, but you can see the crater rim there

While I was still adjusting the heightmap to get the ocean level "right"... but not as much flooding:

that area is really flat! It makes it hard to define a coastline with the waves from scatterer

[eddiew]

Speaking of flat areas...

Northeast of the Kellas Sea, about 10x10km, precisely zero incline for the lot of it. Mine is 6.7% ore, but I think that varies per person/game. About 15km to the shoreline, with a good view of some nearby mountains. For now, this is probably my favoured option for a base location.

It's not equatorial, but plane changes on Rald don't really cost that much - or at least, not in the Minmus orbit that mine is in. Maybe @KerikBalm's Duna version is a little more challenging.

(Just finished a rover expedition. Debating whether to go for the south pole...)

Edited September 25, 2016 by eddiew

[KerikBalm]

I never realized how flat mars was, at least at the scale that  the MRO can image.

It seems anywhere that isn't cratered/a volcano/a really obvious channel feature, is quite flat.

Also, I hadn't realized there were mountains that steep on rald... but... there they are (keep in mind, rald has at least a 3x vertical exaggeration compared to mars).

Right now I'm on 1.2 pre-release, and kopernicus isn't working, and thus rald isn't either

[KerikBalm]

20 hours ago, eddiew said:

Northeast of the Kellas Sea,

[...]

It's not equatorial, but plane changes on Rald don't really cost that much - or at least, not in the Minmus orbit that mine is in. Maybe @KerikBalm's Duna version is a little more challenging.

(Just finished a rover expedition. Debating whether to go for the south pole...)

Well, orbital velocity is about 40% higher (~1300 vs ~900), so I assume plane changes are about 40% more expensive. Since packing on dV is not linear thanks to the tyranny of the rocket equation, I guess it is more challenging.

That said, your location seems to be relatively close to the equator... what lattitude is that? my guess its is comparable to launching rockets into orbit from Florida. Its not like a 90 degree plane change that you'd have to do if you landed at a pole.

I was thinking... maybe I should split the north and south poles into two different biomes. The north and south polar caps are distinct even on mars... so in this case with one surrounded by the Raldian highlands, and the other surrounded by the Kraken Mare, you'd think that they'd end up pretty distinct too,