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[1.10.x] TAC - Life Support v0.16.0 - Release 17th Oct 2020


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On 6/12/2020 at 9:36 AM, Useless_useR said:

I changed the settings in the config, but nothing has changed in the game. But I noticed that the parameters specified in the config do not correspond to the numerical parameters in the game menu.

If you look at the configuration parameters from saving, it turns out that I am changing the wrong parameters.

TAC_SettingsParms_Sec2
        {
            upgrade135 = False
            displayFoodConsumptionRate = 0.992674
            FoodConsumptionRate = 4.5957129310678553E-05
            displayWaterConsumptionRate = 0.648922
            WaterConsumptionRate = 3.0042686396174959E-05
            displayOxygenConsumptionRate = 100.6398
            OxygenConsumptionRate = 0.004659250047471788
            displayBaseElectricityConsumptionRate = 1008
            BaseElectricityConsumptionRate = 0.046666666666666669
            displayElectricityConsumptionRate = 454.9
            ElectricityConsumptionRate = 0.021060184902615017
            displayEvaElectricityConsumptionRate = 7.117
            EvaElectricityConsumptionRate = 0.11861666838328043
            displayEvaLampElectricityConsumptionRate = 2.089
            EvaLampElectricityConsumptionRate = 0.034816666444142656
            displayCO2ProductionRate = 163.3207
            CO2ProductionRate = 0.0075611432393391928
            displayWasteProductionRate = 0.16982
            WasteProductionRate = 7.8620368407832252E-06
            displayWasteWaterProductionRate = 1.55679
            WasteWaterProductionRate = 7.2073610844435512E-05
        }

The parameters highlighted in red correspond to the parameters from the game menu, but I cannot change them in the game save configuration.

Apparently, I don’t understand something. I want to adjust the settings so that one tank (3.75) with life support is enough for 1 Kerbal for no more than 1 year.

I want to assign the same parameters for waste, 1 tank is filled in an equal number of days. The idea is that Kerbals consume resources and produce waste in a 1x1 ratio, although it is more logical to assume that less waste is produced than resources are consumed.

because in the game UI it displays them at different rates. IE: per day/hour/etc. It tells you what the unit is in the UI in the gam.e

In the cfg file they are all in seconds. So get your calculator out and you good to go.

On 6/17/2020 at 1:11 AM, adriangm44 said:

I don't know how to do mu calculations. Do you guys know how much waste products does a single kerbal generates? I don´t mind if its a minute, a day or whatever. I'd just like to know the numbers cause I havent found them anywhere,

Yup all the calcs are available in the spreadsheet (link is on this page)
https://github.com/KSP-RO/TacLifeSupport/wiki/FAQ

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If I'm using mods that have other forms of power generation (like nuclear reactors from MKS), can I make a module manager patch or do some other config tweakery, to have those generators taken into account in the background resource processing? 
Or...is there a way to completely ignore power as a life support dependency? tbh I'd be quite happy to ignore electricity as a life support resource; as any craft that doesn't have adequate power generation is pretty much doomed anyway.

I guess I can uncheck the "unloaded vessel processing" option, but that seems a pity as aside from electricity I've got craft which are setup for life support recycling/production and i'd like those to carry on working....
Actually, what are the implications of switching that option off? If you have a base that produces and recycles life support resources, do you still get those resources calculated when you next visit the base? Does unchecking that option have any impact on ISRU operations on unloaded vessels?
EDIT: I tried unchecking "unloaded vessel processing" and the problem I now get is that craft with normally working elec production (ie those with just stock solar panels or RTGs) are now being flagged as running out of power (it seems like power drain is still factored, but not power generation....do I have to restart the game for that setting to work?)

So what is the best way to manage power when also using mod power generators? Is there a way to remove power from the equation all together?
Thanks! I love this mod, I've tried other LF mods, but in the end I always come back here. 

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On 6/25/2020 at 8:51 AM, katateochi said:

If I'm using mods that have other forms of power generation (like nuclear reactors from MKS), can I make a module manager patch or do some other config tweakery, to have those generators taken into account in the background resource processing? 
Or...is there a way to completely ignore power as a life support dependency? tbh I'd be quite happy to ignore electricity as a life support resource; as any craft that doesn't have adequate power generation is pretty much doomed anyway.

I guess I can uncheck the "unloaded vessel processing" option, but that seems a pity as aside from electricity I've got craft which are setup for life support recycling/production and i'd like those to carry on working....
Actually, what are the implications of switching that option off? If you have a base that produces and recycles life support resources, do you still get those resources calculated when you next visit the base? Does unchecking that option have any impact on ISRU operations on unloaded vessels?
EDIT: I tried unchecking "unloaded vessel processing" and the problem I now get is that craft with normally working elec production (ie those with just stock solar panels or RTGs) are now being flagged as running out of power (it seems like power drain is still factored, but not power generation....do I have to restart the game for that setting to work?)

So what is the best way to manage power when also using mod power generators? Is there a way to remove power from the equation all together?
Thanks! I love this mod, I've tried other LF mods, but in the end I always come back here. 

No currently it does not support other resource converters, and no it's not a simple cfg file trickery. I took a look and the nuclear generators in MKS are resource converters. So for 1.10 I'll add a new setting I think so you can turn on unloaded resource processing for all generic resource converters - IF they produce EC only. and then it will support your MKS ones. This allows it to be flexible for what you want but not impact others who perhaps don't want that.

As for turning off the unloaded vessel processing. You can do that too. It just means all resource converters, TAC LS, etc will play catchup (process all resources when they are loaded or switched to). Just how TAC LS always worked in earlier versions when unloaded vessel processing wasn't a thing.

 

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11 hours ago, JPLRepo said:

So for 1.10 I'll add a new setting I think so you can turn on unloaded resource processing for all generic resource converters - IF they produce EC only

Thanks dude! That would be a really great addition. Support for all generic resource converters (that only produce EC) would, I think, cover most of the mod power generator options. That would be fab. 

14 hours ago, JPLRepo said:

As for turning off the unloaded vessel processing. You can do that too. It just means all resource converters, TAC LS, etc will play catchup (process all resources when they are loaded or switched to). Just how TAC LS always worked in earlier versions when unloaded vessel processing wasn't a thing.

I did try that, but I got unexpected results, but that might have been because I didn't restart the game after changing the setting in the options UI. I need to try that again.

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Greetings.
I wanted to ask: how is the amount of electric energy generated by the unloaded ship calculated in TAC?

I redesigned the processing modules to my liking and increased their power consumption.

On an active ship it was enough for work, on an unloaded ship it ended within a few hours.
I came to the conclusion that the production of electricity is not connected with the actual generation on an active ship.

Is it possible to change the calculation of electricity?

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On 7/2/2020 at 11:33 PM, Cochies said:

Greetings.
I wanted to ask: how is the amount of electric energy generated by the unloaded ship calculated in TAC?

I redesigned the processing modules to my liking and increased their power consumption.

On an active ship it was enough for work, on an unloaded ship it ended within a few hours.
I came to the conclusion that the production of electricity is not connected with the actual generation on an active ship.

Is it possible to change the calculation of electricity?

Sorry but I am not sure what you are talking about.

What "processing modules" are you referring to?

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Posted (edited)
15 hours ago, JPLRepo said:

Sorry but I am not sure what you are talking about.

What "processing modules" are you referring to?

I talked about a water purifier and a bosh module.
And similar modules in Station Parts Expansion.

The bottom line is how and how much electricity does the TAC generate in the background?
And is it possible to change it?

Edited by Cochies
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5 hours ago, Cochies said:

I talked about a water purifier and a bosh module.
And similar modules in Station Parts Expansion.

The bottom line is how and how much electricity does the TAC generate in the background?
And is it possible to change it?

It generates the same. If you Re seeing different then will need step by step what you did. It’s possible if you changed settings that they won’t change for an existing saves vessels. But i would need more information to investigate.

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On 06.07.2020 at 00:12, JPLRepo said:

Он генерирует то же самое. Если вы видите другое, вам нужно будет шаг за шагом, что вы сделали. Возможно, если вы изменили настройки, они не будут изменены для существующих спасательных судов. Но мне нужно больше информации для расследования.

The more I test TAS the more problems.
For example:
test ship.
356days food / water / oxygen supply
Bosch module, water purifier

2 tests:

1 flight - real time, warp x100.000, flight 322 days
Supplies left:
Food - 35 days
Water: 365 days
Oxygen: 314 days

2 flight - through the tracking station, warp x100.000, 322 days
Supplies left:
Food: 35 days
Water: 199 days
Oxygen: 199 days

I do not think this is a good result.

Charge problems were most likely associated with RSS

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • 2 weeks later...
  • 2 weeks later...

So yeah, I was finding some wonky values, like life support being added by default 3 days instead of two, I went to look at the config files and the calculations spreadsheet for confirmation and the values didn't seem to match. Through skimming I've saw a some post talking about it but I don't its related, anyway, for example:

setting on the config
FoodConsumptionRate = 1.6927083333E-05

default value added for 2 kerbin days
maxAmount = 1.097

first divide by the second = 64807.~
or about 3 kerbin days, or 18 hours

Actually looking into it now, the consumption values seem to be proper according to the sheet, if using L/sec (whose insane idea was to use volume instead mass?).

Anyway, I'm fiddling around with the settings, I just wanted to know if that's intended or not.

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For anyone wishing to declutter the part list and not have 2 or more part switching mods installed, I here present a quick and dirty B9PartSwitch patch:

Spoiler
// Switchable container types with B9PartSwitch, because why not?
// License: GPLv3+ https://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-3.0.en.html
// All credit Greys, TaranisElsu & JPLRepo for the original parts. All ModuleManager syntax errors below credit steve_v. :P
// v0.001: Values calculated from 3.75m LS tank, cursory in-game testing only.
// v0.002: Split-out hexcans due to funky path names, much irritating of my elegance OCD.


@PART[TacLifeSupportContainer*]:HAS[@RESOURCE[Food],@RESOURCE[Water],@RESOURCE[Oxygen],!MODULE[ModuleB9PartSwitch]]:NEEDS[B9PartSwitch&!TACLS-Declutter]:FOR[TACLS_B9Switch]
{
// Change name to match TACLS-Declutter, because I'm trying to eradicate Firespitter from an existing game. ;)
    @name ^= :^:Configurable:
    @title ^= :^:Configurable :
    @description ^= :A :A configurable :
    
// Gotta get a volume reference somewhere, food is as good as any. Quantities appear to be rounded on the original parts, so our results won't *quite* match. Zaroo forks given.
    cap = #$RESOURCE[Food]/maxAmount$
    @cap *= 2.11884811711451410960223
    
    !RESOURCE[Food] {}
	!RESOURCE[Water] {}
	!RESOURCE[Oxygen] {}

	@MODEL,0 {
		!texture,0 =
	}
	
    MODULE
	{
		name = ModuleB9PartSwitch
		moduleID = TACLS
        switcherDescription = Container Type
		baseVolume = #$../cap$
		
        SUBTYPE
		{
			name = LifeSupport
			title = Life Support
			primaryColor = Green
			secondaryColor = Blue
			TEXTURE
			{
                texture = ThunderAerospace/TacLifeSupportContainers/Texture
            }
            RESOURCE
            {
                name = Food
                unitsPerVolume = 0.471954545454545454545454
            }
            RESOURCE
            {
                name = Water
                unitsPerVolume = 0.311954545454545454545455
            }
            RESOURCE
            {
                name = Oxygen
                unitsPerVolume = 47.7787272727272727272727
            }
		}
		
		SUBTYPE
		{
			name = Food
			title = Food
			primaryColor = Green
			TEXTURE
			{
                texture = ThunderAerospace/TacLifeSupportContainers/FoodTexture
            }
            RESOURCE
            {
                name = Food
                unitsPerVolume = 1
            }
		}

		SUBTYPE
		{
			name = Water
			title = Water
			primaryColor = Blue
			TEXTURE
			{
                texture = ThunderAerospace/TacLifeSupportContainers/WaterTexture
            }
            RESOURCE
            {
                name = Water
                unitsPerVolume = 1
            }
		}

		SUBTYPE
		{
			name = Oxygen
			title = Oxygen
			primaryColor = LightBlue
			TEXTURE
			{
                texture = ThunderAerospace/TacLifeSupportContainers/OxygenTexture
            }
            RESOURCE
            {
                name = Oxygen
                unitsPerVolume = 221.134727272727272727273
            }
		}
		SUBTYPE
		{
			name = Waste
			title = Waste
			primaryColor = Brown
			TEXTURE
			{
                texture = ThunderAerospace/TacLifeSupportContainers/WasteTexture
            }
            RESOURCE
            {
                name = CarbonDioxide
                unitsPerVolume = 78.3338636363636363636364
                percentFilled = 0
            }
            RESOURCE
            {
                name = WasteWater
                unitsPerVolume = 0.754
                percentFilled = 0
            }
            RESOURCE
            {
                name = Waste
                unitsPerVolume = 0.0814545454545454545454545
                percentFilled = 0
            }
        }
    }
}

@PART[HexCanLifeSupport*]:HAS[@RESOURCE[Food],@RESOURCE[Water],@RESOURCE[Oxygen],!MODULE[ModuleB9PartSwitch]]:NEEDS[B9PartSwitch&!TACLS-Declutter]:FOR[TACLS_B9Switch]
{
// Change name to match TACLS-Declutter, because I'm trying to eradicate Firespitter from an existing game. ;)
    @name ^= :^:Configurable:
    @title ^= :^:Configurable :
    @description ^= :A :A configurable :
    
// Gotta get a volume reference somewhere, food is as good as any. Quantities appear to be rounded on the original parts, so our results won't *quite* match. Zaroo forks given.
    cap = #$RESOURCE[Food]/maxAmount$
    @cap *= 2.11884811711451410960223
    
    !RESOURCE[Food] {}
	!RESOURCE[Water] {}
	!RESOURCE[Oxygen] {}

	@MODEL,0 {
		!texture,0 =
	}
	
    MODULE
	{
		name = ModuleB9PartSwitch
		moduleID = TACLS
        switcherDescription = Container Type
		baseVolume = #$../cap$
		
        SUBTYPE
		{
			name = LifeSupport
			title = Life Support
			primaryColor = Green
			secondaryColor = Blue
			TEXTURE
			{
                texture = ThunderAerospace/TacLifeSupportHexCans/HexCanLifeSupport/Texture
            }
            RESOURCE
            {
                name = Food
                unitsPerVolume = 0.471954545454545454545454
            }
            RESOURCE
            {
                name = Water
                unitsPerVolume = 0.311954545454545454545455
            }
            RESOURCE
            {
                name = Oxygen
                unitsPerVolume = 47.7787272727272727272727
            }
		}
		
		SUBTYPE
		{
			name = Food
			title = Food
			primaryColor = Green
			TEXTURE
			{
                texture = ThunderAerospace/TacLifeSupportHexCans/HexCanFood/Texture
            }
            RESOURCE
            {
                name = Food
                unitsPerVolume = 1
            }
		}

		SUBTYPE
		{
			name = Water
			title = Water
			primaryColor = Blue
			TEXTURE
			{
                texture = ThunderAerospace/TacLifeSupportHexCans/HexCanDrinkingWater/Texture
            }
            RESOURCE
            {
                name = Water
                unitsPerVolume = 1
            }
		}

		SUBTYPE
		{
			name = Oxygen
			title = Oxygen
			primaryColor = LightBlue
			TEXTURE
			{
                texture = ThunderAerospace/TacLifeSupportHexCans/HexCanBreathingOxygen/Texture
            }
            RESOURCE
            {
                name = Oxygen
                unitsPerVolume = 221.134727272727272727273
            }
		}
		SUBTYPE
		{
			name = Waste
			title = Waste
			primaryColor = Brown
			TEXTURE
			{
                texture = ThunderAerospace/TacLifeSupportHexCans/HexCanWaste/WasteTexture
            }
            RESOURCE
            {
                name = CarbonDioxide
                unitsPerVolume = 78.3338636363636363636364
                percentFilled = 0
            }
            RESOURCE
            {
                name = WasteWater
                unitsPerVolume = 0.754
                percentFilled = 0
            }
            RESOURCE
            {
                name = Waste
                unitsPerVolume = 0.0814545454545454545454545
                percentFilled = 0
            }
        }
    }
}

// Remove originals.
-PART[Tac*Container*|HexCan*]:HAS[!MODULE[ModuleB9PartSwitch]]:NEEDS[B9PartSwitch&!TACLS-Declutter]:FOR[TACLS_B9Switch] {}

// Hide originals. Applies only in career mode, but won't break existing craft.
// @PART[Tac*Container*|HexCan*]:HAS[!MODULE[ModuleB9PartSwitch]]:NEEDS[B9PartSwitch&!TACLS-Declutter]:FOR[TACLS_B9Switch]
// {
// 	@TechRequired = unassigned
// 	@category = none
// }

 

Yeah, I know the values are very slightly wonky. It was that or patch each part individually, which I can't be bothered to do. Feel free to improve.

Ed. What kind of screwey code box is this? It's completely mangled the formatting, and applied line-wrap :confused:. What is the point of a code box that doesn't represent code verbatim? I really hate this forum software.
Here's a link to the non-buggered version.

Ed. Guess I should actually use the right textures on the hexcans, duh. Updated.

Edited by steve_v
Wow, this editor really blows.
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Hi, does this mod produce food and oxygen while the vessel is inactive? I currently have a base that is not producing while inactive, just checking if it is supposed to or not.

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Can EC monitoring be completely disabled?  I'm running into an issue where mod conflicts (probably Kopernicus) are causing BackgroundResources to not be able to access solar panels (endless NREs in the log).  So every time I warp, Kerbals are dying due to running out of electricity while sitting on top of an active nuclear reactor and between two gigantor solar panels.  While it'd be nice if this problem could be fixed (see here for my post going into it) I'd also like to be able to play in the meantime and just track food, water and oxygen.

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@JPLRepo, hey, I think I found a incompatibility issue between TAC and Kopernicus.

Issue:

Electricity is not updated for background vessels, and runs out despite vessels having solar panels. It seems that the electricity simply does not regenerate when vessel is unloaded.

Mods:

KSP 1.10.1.2939

TAC LS 0.15.0 (with all dependencies)

Kopernicus R-T-B Unified "Bleeding Edge" Edition Release 20 (https://github.com/R-T-B/kopernicus/releases)

Steps to reproduce:

1. Launch a vessel with solar panels and lots of batteries into Kerbin orbit;

2. Return to KSC view, open TAC monitor;

3. Time warp;

4. Watch how electricity runs out and everyone dies.

 

I know that TAC is not updated yet for 1.10, but perhaps there is some simple fix for this? Otherwise TAC seems to work great in 1.10 :)

 

P.S. I have attempted to delete SolarPanels.cfg from Kopernicus/config, but it did not help the issue.

 

Edited by aluc24
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5 hours ago, aluc24 said:

@JPLRepo, hey, I think I found a incompatibility issue between TAC and Kopernicus.

Issue:

Electricity is not updated for background vessels, and runs out despite vessels having solar panels. It seems that the electricity simply does not regenerate when vessel is unloaded.

Mods:

KSP 1.10.1.2939

TAC LS 0.15.0 (with all dependencies)

Kopernicus R-T-B Unified "Bleeding Edge" Edition Release 20 (https://github.com/R-T-B/kopernicus/releases)

Steps to reproduce:

1. Launch a vessel with solar panels and lots of batteries into Kerbin orbit;

2. Return to KSC view, open TAC monitor;

3. Time warp;

4. Watch how electricity runs out and everyone dies.

 

I know that TAC is not updated yet for 1.10, but perhaps there is some simple fix for this? Otherwise TAC seems to work great in 1.10 :)

 

P.S. I have attempted to delete SolarPanels.cfg from Kopernicus/config, but it did not help the issue.

 

This is an issue that has been noted before. AFAIK, no one has nailed down the culprit, although it tends to occur when Kopernicus is installed and when using non-stock solar panels. In my own experience, I have noted that if I verify that the panels are in sunlight and generating surplus energy *before* switching to the KSC, the bug doesn't rear its ugly head.

You may want to upload your logs in the hope that someone with a brain (i.e., anyone but me) can figure out what's going on.

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Hi all!

First of all I'm not good with this game, modding and stuff, my english sucks, and i'm more like a total war fan, but from time to time I play this game too so, I just grabbed a bunch of mods for 1.10.1 and TAC Life Support who it gave me the "B9 part switch fatal error"  but after I removed the TAC Life Support mod, everything was okay. I just want to let you know guys, and if anyone know a solution to make it work with this mod.

yaTwRxk.jpg

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4 hours ago, GERULA said:

TAC Life Support who it gave me the "B9 part switch fatal error"  but after I removed the TAC Life Support mod, everything was okay. I just want to let you know guys, and if anyone know a solution to make it work with TAC Life Support mod.

TacLS does not reference "DS_WasteWater" itself. My guess is that some other mod (possibly one that could be abbreviated as "DS") includes compatibility patches depending on TacLS and those patches either do something weird or you're missing additional dependencies.

I'd search for "DS_WasteWater" in GameData and take it from there. Or maybe post a link to a log file.

(copied from another thread ;)

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59 minutes ago, HansAcker said:

TacLS does not reference "DS_WasteWater" itself. My guess is that some other mod (possibly one that could be abbreviated as "DS") includes compatibility patches depending on TacLS and those patches either do something weird or you're missing additional dependencies.

I'd search for "DS_WasteWater" in GameData and take it from there. Or maybe post a link to a log file.

(copied from another thread ;)

Thx for your help, I found where the problem came from.

[LOG 11:31:03.517] Config(B9_TANK_TYPE:NEEDS[Kerbalism]) DeepSky/AirlineKuisine/dsak_B9PS/DS_WasteWater

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Hi,

I've been having an issue with my install. I'm still cooking on 1.9 so I can could hopefully get the mod to work.

I reported the issue on GITHUB but had no reply. Link to GITHUB thread is here - https://github.com/KSP-RO/TacLifeSupport/issues/134

Essentially it boils down to all of my vessels having 'time left on current consumption' being some huge negative number. Not only that, none of my kerbals are actually producing or consuming any resources.

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 8/29/2020 at 3:03 AM, TerrificToby said:

Hi,

I've been having an issue with my install. I'm still cooking on 1.9 so I can could hopefully get the mod to work.

I reported the issue on GITHUB but had no reply. Link to GITHUB thread is here - https://github.com/KSP-RO/TacLifeSupport/issues/134

Essentially it boils down to all of my vessels having 'time left on current consumption' being some huge negative number. Not only that, none of my kerbals are actually producing or consuming any resources.

It would help if you supply more information in the issue on github. Screenshots don't help much.
If you could supply:
Full logs.
List of mods being used.
Attach a copy of the save file that has the problem.

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