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Help? I can't land my plane :(


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15 minutes ago, DracoSilverpath said:

It weighs I think around...8-10 tons, alot of the weight is coming from the larger wings already, so making them even bigger and heavier I think would be counter-productive in this case?

And yes, that's true about the boat thing, but what about engines? Can't run a jet engine underwater for example :) and every time I've tried to make  one, even if the engine was above, ti just -refused- to even move an inch in the water

It's not counter-productive. Think logically. Until wings are over 50% of your craft's mass, this is entirely productive (save for long-range spaceplanes, and your craft is just an airplane). And wings weigh little to nothing.

But why should you make your spaceplane move in water at all in career mode? You just land on water, and recover the plane :wink:

And it is very weird for something to not move in water at all. What happens when you right click the engine after landing on water?

Edited by TheDestroyer111
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In KSP, for a plane like yours (light), I would usually reduce the spring default value, and increase the dampen default value.

(0.75, 1.25)

Tell us how it goes with those change.

 

 

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I have 3 suggestions:

  1. Sometimes the design may just be wonky. I find that if you run out of ideas completely, then rebuilding it from scratch may actually solve it... especially if you make another part the "root" part (i.e. if your first part was the cockpit, start a fresh design, make the fuel tank the first part this time). No need to change anything in the design.
  2. It sounds to me like your problem lies in the front wheel, which is the one that bounces the highest. See if you can replace that, or move that around (if you didn't already do that).
  3. Finally, make sure that the rear landing gear is positioned quite a bit behind the CoM. That ensures that the tail does not flip onto the asphalt/dirt when you land.
Edited by Magzimum
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So, i did some test's with a sort of of stock recreation of your craft to see if i could reproduce the results.

And i sorta did. When i pushed my nose down hard after touchdown, the nose gear started bouncing up and down like crazy. It didn't flip me upside down tough (but it did kick the nose up quite hard).

But on a normal landing (I only press brakes and use my yaw after i touchdown), nothing happened.

So, i think that might be your problem (i have never used FAR, so i'm not sure, but i suspect it might give the plane the extra kick that then flips it upside down).

But it's just a guess since i don't know if you do this while landing.

 

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Finally back! Took a look through the suggestions again to re-acqaint myself with that I needed to test, and sadly, none of the conventional ideas really worked :(

I trtied moving the landing gear around in different configurations, barely behind CoM, further back, etc, didn't change anyhting except how hard it was to take off. I then tried again with 3 other setups of SAS (none, SAS on, and Atomspheric Autopilot) and it did the same thing in all 3 scenarios. Would glide in and bounce like mad, regardless of speed or SAS status.

I tried it also with applying brakes before landing, and also after touchdown, neither way had any effect on the outcome.

I've even tried making an entirely new craft altogether, and despite looking entirely different, it has the exact same landing issue.

Soo...anyone else have any other ideas here? Perhaps the craft is just too light or something, and will bounce up no matter what? Are medium landing gears not good for this sort of plane? According to FAR's graphs, everything is nominal across the board, and it should fly perfectly fine, so I'm just running out of ideas with these darn planes...

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Totally counter-intuitive: lowering the dampening usually improves the situation with engine bearings, which is opposite of what it should be. Usually I use a 1:2 to 1:3 ratio, 1 being the damper setting vs spring setting.

Also, nice plane.

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1 minute ago, Azimech said:

Totally counter-intuitive: lowering the dampening usually improves the situation with engine bearings, which is opposite of what it should be. Usually I use a 1:2 to 1:3 ratio, 1 being the damper setting vs spring setting.

Also, nice plane.

Thanks :) Just wish it could land! I also tried adjusting jsut spring strength in my earlier attempts, it didn't help also.

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How fast are you touching down? I've found that touching down at high speeds (>100m/s) tends to cause the plane to bounce. My method of working around this is to fly very close to the ground and then deploying a drogue chute to quickly slow the aircraft down. It's a bit tricky but it actually works quite well.

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1 hour ago, Giggleplex777 said:

How fast are you touching down? I've found that touching down at high speeds (>100m/s) tends to cause the plane to bounce. My method of working around this is to fly very close to the ground and then deploying a drogue chute to quickly slow the aircraft down. It's a bit tricky but it actually works quite well.

Touchdown has been at a variety of speeds, usually at around 100ms or so, any less and the plane stalls out, regardless of how big or small I make the wings (maybe FAR doing that? idk) The drogue chute is possible for sure, its just not a long term solution really for early game when you may need to bunny hop between multiple biomes.

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37 minutes ago, DracoSilverpath said:

Touchdown has been at a variety of speeds, usually at around 100ms or so, any less and the plane stalls out, regardless of how big or small I make the wings (maybe FAR doing that? idk) The drogue chute is possible for sure, its just not a long term solution really for early game when you may need to bunny hop between multiple biomes.

Are you using flaps? They should lower your stall speed by a bit. Reducing the amount of fuel you're carrying and/or engine would help too. One Wheesley's is probably enough if you're using FAR.

I'm playing career mode (with stock parts and FAR) and most of the contracts are observational ones which do not require more than one landing, so the drogue chute solution works fine for me. :)

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15 minutes ago, Giggleplex777 said:

Are you using flaps? They should lower your stall speed by a bit. Reducing the amount of fuel you're carrying and/or engine would help too. One Wheesley's is probably enough if you're using FAR.

I'm playing career mode (with stock parts and FAR) and most of the contracts are observational ones which do not require more than one landing, so the drogue chute solution works fine for me. :)

See, I got a bazillion contract packs, and a lot of them require multiple biome samples and such...so that makes a problem :) also, I've already cut the fuel down 1/4th the original amount, and it sadly has been negligible as far as effectiveness sadly. I have toyed with flaps a bit as well, and also tried limiting max engine outputs, sadly again to no real effect.

Also, a slight side note/issue I've found, is that my 360 controller seems to behave very differently than when using my keyboard. For instance, using the controller and maxing out a roll/pitch turn, to turn around, takes forever, despite all indication that it is indeed maxed. When using keyboard, the circle is much tighter, and also the plane takes off easier too(sooner rather than later). Also, I seem to be unable to engage normal SAS when using the controller, as it seems to completely lock up the control surfaces.

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1 hour ago, DracoSilverpath said:

Touchdown has been at a variety of speeds, usually at around 100ms or so, any less and the plane stalls out, regardless of how big or small I make the wings (maybe FAR doing that? idk) The drogue chute is possible for sure, its just not a long term solution really for early game when you may need to bunny hop between multiple biomes.

my rule of thumb for landing is vertical speed=2-3m/s

if you cant do it first time, try again. practice makes perfect.

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6 minutes ago, TheGuyNamedAlan said:

my rule of thumb for landing is vertical speed=2-3m/s

if you cant do it first time, try again. practice makes perfect.

Oh vertical speed is definitely not my problem, I'm already coming down at a very low speed, my horizontal speed is around 100 or a bit higher.

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do u have windows 10??

if not, download the xbox app of the store or off the internet. 

windows 10 comes with it so u dont need 2 download it 2 times.

open xbox>open ksp> press window key-G>press multiple times until a tab at the top left corner of ksp opens>click record>go to captures in ur windows explorer> share it with us on youtube or on any file sharing site.

@DracoSilverpath

btw shouldn't this be in gameplay questions??

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7 minutes ago, TheGuyNamedAlan said:

do u have windows 10??

if not, download the xbox app of the store or off the internet. 

windows 10 comes with it so u dont need 2 download it 2 times.

open xbox>open ksp> press window key-G>press multiple times until a tab at the top left corner of ksp opens>click record>go to captures in ur windows explorer> share it with us on youtube or on any file sharing site.

@DracoSilverpath

btw shouldn't this be in gameplay questions??

no idea...someone's welcome to move it if it is!

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37 minutes ago, DracoSilverpath said:

Oh vertical speed is definitely not my problem, I'm already coming down at a very low speed, my horizontal speed is around 100 or a bit higher.

Whoa ... that's way too fast for landing. I design my planes to touch down between 25 - 45 m/s.

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39 minutes ago, DracoSilverpath said:

Beleive me, I'd love to..but as said earlier, anything below 100 and the plane just flops.

Are you 100% sure there's no problem with the B9-FAR lift/drag values? I'd replace all wings with stock and try again. Something smells bad.

 

Besides ... tweakscale is known as another source of problems.

Edited by Azimech
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16 minutes ago, Azimech said:

Are you 100% sure there's no problem with the B9-FAR lift/drag values? I'd replace all wings with stock and try again. Something smells bad.

 

Besides ... tweakscale is known as another source of problems.

I'll give that a shot and see. Will report back soon~

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