Are Scientists/Engineers supposed to have full pilot abilities in sandbox/science modes?

[MiniMatt]

I genuinely can't remember if this is expected behaviour or a bug, so asking first before submitting to bug tracker.

I get that under science & sandbox gameplay modes all kerbonauts start with 5 stars in their fields and thus their abilities are not graduated by experience, but could have sworn individual specialisations were still supposed to be in effect? Is it expected behaviour that Bill & Bob can fly a Mk1 Command Pod just as well as Jeb?

Corollary - do mining rigs in sandbox/science modes function just as well with only Jeb on board as if engineer Bill also tagged along?

 

Sorry, been so long since career was introduced and since it was my sandbox saves are usually just used for testing.

[Red Iron Crown]

Jeb, Bill, Bob and Valentina are special in sandbox mode in that they can perform all the specialties' tasks at maximum experience. Any further kerbals hired will have just one specialty.

Edit: A friend pointed out I was wrong about this, I blame old age and faulty memory.

Edited August 31, 2016 by Red Iron Crown

[Pecan]

8 hours ago, Red Iron Crown said:

Jeb, Bill, Bob and Valentina are special in sandbox mode in that they can perform all the specialties' tasks at maximum experience. Any further kerbals hired will have just one specialty.

Still learning.  Thanks RIC

[Reactordrone]

Was that a 1.1.3 thing. All of my hires in 1.1.2 have full piloting ability regardless of speciality.

[MiniMatt]

14 hours ago, Red Iron Crown said:

Jeb, Bill, Bob and Valentina are special in sandbox mode in that they can perform all the specialties' tasks at maximum experience. Any further kerbals hired will have just one specialty.

Interesting, thanks. In that case we definitely have a bug as silver suited new hire scientists & engineers under 1.1.3 Win x64 definitely have full SAS pilot abilities in Sandbox and Science gameplay modes.

I just tested mining, and what I think confirms it as a bug, is that in sandbox mode engineers on board definitely give a mining rate bonus:

Silver scientist alone: 0.005255/s at lauchpad
Orange Pilot (Jeb) alone: 0.005255/s at launchpad
Silver scientist + silver engineer: 0.131371/s at launchpad (25x the rate, as expected for 5-star engineer)

I can't see it being a design decision that engineers provide unique bonuses in sandbox/science, but that pilot skills are universal. I'll get it logged on the bug tracker.

[Reactordrone]

50 minutes ago, MiniMatt said:

I can't see it being a design decision that engineers provide unique bonuses in sandbox/science, but that pilot skills are universal. I'll get it logged on the bug tracker.

Scientists still have their unique attributes in sandbox as well as engineers, it's just that science serves no purpose in sandbox. I suppose universal piloting ability is desirable in sandbox so you can just throw anyone into the pilot's seat for test flights.

[MiniMatt]

43 minutes ago, Reactordrone said:

Scientists still have their unique attributes in sandbox as well as engineers, it's just that science serves no purpose in sandbox. I suppose universal piloting ability is desirable in sandbox so you can just throw anyone into the pilot's seat for test flights.

Yeah, wanted to test scientists under a clean Science mode test (ie. their performance in labs) but that means levelling up a fresh save.

Have to say I'm hovering over the submit button on the bug tracker right now, as some old v.0.90 threads suggest universal piloting skills were in place back then - 

Wondering if this has come about as far back as v0.22ish when career mode was first toyed with (and became the science mode we have today) - perhaps the desire not to brick 0.21 saves meant everyone has unique pilot abilities but features release subsequent to that (eg. mining, science labs) can safely be tied to specialities under sandbox/science modes.

 

edit: yeah, this is definitely an old design decision - just double checked, even the stayputnik probe has full SAS abilities under 1.1.3 sandbox mode. Think I'm going to log under feedback rather than bug on the bug tracker - I think we can safely brick v0.21 saves, but appreciate others may think differently.

edit 2: logged feedback http://bugs.kerbalspaceprogram.com/issues/10845 - think this is an issue that's grown from a design decision that made sense three years ago that has increasingly become problematic as new features are added. Right now under Sandbox mode every single probe core is functionally identical - the only differentiator is in built torque wheel strength.

edit 3: looking forward, with v1.2 introducing unique pilot skills under the communication array re-work, I suspect what initially started as a clear design decision of "everything is unlocked under sandbox" is only going to become more convoluted over time - we'll have "everything is unlocked under sandbox - everyone can pilot a ship and repair wheels but remote piloting can only be done by pilots, and mining can only be boosted by engineers, and all probes are functionally identical, and only scientists provide lab bonuses, not that they're relevant in sandbox".

Edited August 29, 2016 by MiniMatt