UomoCapra

Update 1.2 has entered Experimental testing!

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11 hours ago, legoclone09 said:

Yes!
I have my ticket ready! In my sig!

*looks at the ticket for a long time and thinks maybe there is something off but I can't put my finger on it*

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8 hours ago, Streetwind said:

If experience from the 1.1 pre-release is any indication: yes it can :P

You are really, seriously getting an active development build there. It will absolutely break on you in some way or another, and be patched every one or two days. These patches may or may not be vessel breaking, save breaking, or both.

In other words: if you're not a modder intent on getting a head start with updating your mod, or a committed bughunter aiming to help out with reporting issues, don't do it! Prereleases are not for regular gameplay.

Yeah but your 1.1 experience was against a working 1.0.5.  1.1 is unplayable for me, so if it's even slightly better than unplayable then it beats it.

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15 hours ago, UomoCapra said:

Those of you who’ve been around for the 1.1 update will remember that we released a ‘pre-release’ test build for everyone to have a go before we officially released the update, and for update 1.2 we plan to do the same thing. Once the pre-release builds are available you’ll only be able to opt-in via the Steam betas, or through the KSP store.

Why do you even bother with a pre-release and/or public testing. Even with all those people 'testing' in the past a large number of horrible bugs still slipped through. All the so called 'testing' did was sow dissent between Steam and non-Steam users. Between those with access and those without.
Again, why bother? Get your act together for once and build a dedicated team that actually KNOWS what they are doing. Find and FIX those darn fragging bugs. For many people the game has been unplayable since 1.1. I am pretty sure they can wait a few weeks longer if this ensures a stable build without moronic in-your-face bugs that should have been spotted.

Edited by Tex_NL

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It's amazing, they do a pre-release with Steam because it has the infrastructure, and people complain it's not on the KSP store.  So they develop a way to add the infrastructure to the KSP Store and people still complain that they once did it without the KSP Store.  What do you guys want?  Time travel?

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7 hours ago, BgDestroy said:

why ? i have KSP from age if ksp = 0.23. FEW YEARS I HAVE KSP. WHY NOT ONLY ONE PRELEASE ACCESS WHY ? I HATE THIS MOMENTS OMFG

 

7 hours ago, MK3424 said:

Patience my dear friend, i've been playing KSP since 0.18. 

And be grateful that you get pre-release access now, it once was different you know..

Well said, my young Padawan: patience...
... probably not worth to download a pre-release, just to settle with some of the first updated mods, and then threw them directly to the recycler bin, as in a couple of weeks will come release 1.2... then bug-fix 1.2.1 to fix some stock antenna ranges... then... uhm... a jump to 1.2.5, with improved something... All the above passages with total, different, uncompatible mod releases... LOL :D:cool::D

Araym
... fellow "Master Jedi kerbonaut" from... uhm... "Sunday Punch" pack... was it for 0.14??? 0.15??? What is it the older version of KSP??? I missed just the "first" one (that should be 0.13...) I'm basically so old that I already lost my memory (... it's probably first symptoms of Alzheimer, as "old" I am...
:confused:)

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1 hour ago, Alshain said:

Yeah but your 1.1 experience was against a working 1.0.5.  1.1 is unplayable for me, so if it's even slightly better than unplayable then it beats it.

No, my experience was with the 1.1 prerelease stand-alone. It did not work well. You would not have enjoyed your time with it. Regardless of whether or not you considered the current release version too buggy for your tastes or not. I don't expect 1.2 to be any better until it actually gets its proper release build.

 

28 minutes ago, Alshain said:

It's amazing, they do a pre-release with Steam because it has the infrastructure, and people complain it's not on the KSP store.  So they develop a way to add the infrastructure to the KSP Store and people still complain that they once did it without the KSP Store.  What do you guys want?  Time travel?

They want to complain, mostly :P Complaining makes you look cool online.

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3 minutes ago, Streetwind said:

No, my experience was with the 1.1 prerelease stand-alone. It did not work well. You would not have enjoyed your time with it. Regardless of whether or not you considered the current release version too buggy for your tastes or not. I don't expect 1.2 to be any better until it actually gets its proper release build.

It depends on if they do it right.  If they have already tested it, it should be much better than 1.1.  I mentioned this in your other thread, but they have to use public testing in addition to normal testing, that didn't happen in 1.1.  However this time they hired a company to test it independently, assuming that has been done, public testing should be for polish, not primary testing.  Time will tell I guess.

The public should never be the primary source of testing, that is why 1.1 testing broke down so badly.

Edited by Alshain

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2 minutes ago, Alshain said:

It depends on if they do it right.  If they have already tested it, it should be much better than 1.1.  I mentioned this in your other thread, but they have to use public testing in addition to normal testing, that didn't happen in 1.1.  However this time they hired a company to test it independently, assuming that has been done, public testing should be for polish, not primary testing.  Time will tell I guess.

The public should never be the primary source of testing, that is why 1.1 testing broke down so badly.

If they do proper testing they won't need public testing. Public testing is a farce. Public WILL NOT TEST. All the public does is take it as a full release and expect it to function as such.

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What? 1.1 public testing was amazing. I made a suggestion and within 24 hours it was implemented and patched in the next prerelease build. Ultimately it got reverted because it had ripple effects that would need proper development attention to address, but the amount of community interaction was outstanding. Reported two bugs as well, and both were eventually fixed before the main release. If I can get some more of that, I couldn't be more satisfied :)

Besides, 1.1.3 isn't nearly as bad as you made it sound. Every major bug I've encountered in my last career was mod-related. A few minor annoyances don't make a game unplayable in my opinion.

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7 minutes ago, Streetwind said:

What? 1.1 public testing was amazing. I made a suggestion and within 24 hours it was implemented and patched in the next prerelease build. Ultimately it got reverted because it had ripple effects that would need proper development attention to address, but the amount of community interaction was outstanding. Reported two bugs as well, and both were eventually fixed before the main release. If I can get some more of that, I couldn't be more satisfied :)

Besides, 1.1.3 isn't nearly as bad as you made it sound. Every major bug I've encountered in my last career was mod-related. A few minor annoyances don't make a game unplayable in my opinion.

speaking of that amazing balance patch that got reverted what were the stats for the balanced xenon tanks again? I might as well get a head start on modding the tutorials and stock craft to run properly with more balanced part stats then I can file a more complete report when the time comes.

Edited by passinglurker

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36 minutes ago, passinglurker said:

speaking of that amazing balance patch that got reverted what were the stats for the balanced xenon tanks again? I might as well get a head start on modding the tutorials and stock craft to run properly with more balanced part stats then I can file a more complete report when the time comes.

Squad said they'd earmark it for the rocket parts revamp. Which from the looks of it is not part of 1.2. So there's probably not that much need to change anything just yet.

But since you asked: the idea was to give all tanks of all fuel types a unified mass ratio of 9:1, just like most tanks already have it today. And since xenon tanks would change the most dramatically through that, it might come with a re-statting of the Dawn engine. Maybe. Maybe not. Who knows.

Edited by Streetwind

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1 minute ago, Streetwind said:

Squad said they'd earmark it for the rocket parts revamp. Which from the looks of it is not part of 1.2. So there's probably not that much need to change anything just yet.

But since you asked: the idea was to give all tanks of all fuel types a unified mass ratio of 9:1, just like most tanks already have it today.

ah well then I'll just focus on bringing balance through modding then

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I for one will not be using prerelease because imo its for people who want to break it and report back to squad.....all I would do is play it and be just as happy as when I started at 0.90 (I started late!) Good luck to the game breakers......you'll all make this wonderful game and update even better than it already is.....and THAT is the sign of brilliance already :)

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1 hour ago, Tex_NL said:

If they do proper testing they won't need public testing. Public testing is a farce. Public WILL NOT TEST. All the public does is take it as a full release and expect it to function as such.

On the contrary, it does help to put a piece of software through real world testing once your internal test team thinks they have found most everything.  No matter how good a test team is, consumers can be unpredictable.  However, it shouldn't be placed in public testing until you think it could be ready for release.  It's a method used to weed out issues that are difficult to predict, and yet consumers somehow manage to find them.

People are complaining that public testers treat the test as a release, but in fact that is exactly what they should be doing and that is exactly what Squad should want them to do.  The pre-release testing should be used exactly as a release would be, it's not intended to be a regression test, it's a play test.

Edited by Alshain

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Hnnng... I instinctively want to opt in as soon as it's available... but it's basically the deathknell for my modded career if I do :( 

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13 minutes ago, eddiew said:

Hnnng... I instinctively want to opt in as soon as it's available... but it's basically the deathknell for my modded career if I do :( 

Nah, it's just another directory of < 5GB, but time might get a bit short of course.

 

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10 minutes ago, Curveball Anders said:

Nah, it's just another directory of < 5GB, but time might get a bit short of course.

Lol, yeah, I will start playing out of a secondary directory as of... basically now :)  But I barely get enough time for one career, let alone two! It's taken me three days to build a one spaceplane, and it still hasn't launched properly :( 

Then again... wheel fixes... dear god I want the wheel fixes... 

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44 minutes ago, Alshain said:

On the contrary, it does help to put a piece of software through real world testing once your internal test team thinks they have found most everything.  No matter how good a test team is, consumers can be unpredictable.  However, it shouldn't be placed in public testing until you think it could be ready for release.  It's a method used to weed out issues that are difficult to predict, and yet consumers somehow manage to find them.

People are complaining that public testers treat the test as a release, but in fact that is exactly what they should be doing and that is exactly what Squad should want them to do.  The pre-release testing should be used exactly as a release would be, it's not intended to be a regression test, it's a play test.

But it should ONLY be accessed by people who are actually willing to contribute. No the general public. Based on what he said @Streetwind seems to be one of those willing to properly report issues. @maceemiller, and me, on the other hand are good examples of those wisely choosing not to participate. I simply do not have the time for it.

In my opinion an unrestricted public test is counterproductive. Real bugs get drowned by false, unrelated and/or poorly documented reports. Please don't get me wrong. I am not against testing be a wider, more diverse group than just SQUAD. But only those that are prepared to spend quality time testing and capable of doing what they're supposed to do should get access.

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18 minutes ago, Tex_NL said:

But it should ONLY be accessed by people who are actually willing to contribute. No the general public. Based on what he said @Streetwind seems to be one of those willing to properly report issues. @maceemiller, and me, on the other hand are good examples of those wisely choosing not to participate. I simply do not have the time for it.

True, but there is absolutely no possible way to control that.  Such is life.  They just have to deal with it.

18 minutes ago, Tex_NL said:

In my opinion an unrestricted public test is counterproductive. Real bugs get drowned by false, unrelated and/or poorly documented reports. Please don't get me wrong. I am not against testing be a wider, more diverse group than just SQUAD. But only those that are prepared to spend quality time testing and capable of doing what they're supposed to do should get access.

In my experience it is quite productive, if done correctly, even if you do have to weed out false reports.  As for being prepared to spend time testing, again consumer testing is nothing special.  The testers should be playing the game exactly how they normally do.  There is nothing to be prepared for.  You aren't running special test cases, that is regression testing and should be done internally.  You are just playing the game normally and reporting problems you have in as much detail as you can provide.

It is certainly helpful if your tester understands the difference between bug and feature request, but in public testing there are always going to be those that do not.  Still the benefits outweigh the detractors.

Edited by Alshain

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Omg. So hype, much update. Wow.

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