SQUAD

Devnote Tuesday: 1.2 is getting ever closer!

Recommended Posts

18 minutes ago, patrioticparadox said:

I have to admit I am confused by this. What exactly is changing?

Previously, KerbNet wrapped around the edges of the latitude and longitude ranges by simply wrapping the numbers, so everything was square and flat. If you zoomed out far enough, you could see the back side of the planet, and if you continued zooming out it would actually start tiling the planetary map. :P

Now, it's based on a semi-raycasted view cone, which means if you fly away from the planet, the map will go from flat, to a sphere, like you see in the gif in the devnotes. In an orbit, the sphere will rotate properly, if you continue to fly away, the sphere will get smaller and smaller, eventually winking out of existence.

Another benefit of this method, is that in the original method, the poles were giant stripes that covered the width of the top and bottom of the map, due to the fact that longitude is meaningless at the poles. With the view cone, the poles look like normal.

  • Like 9

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, Arsonide said:

Now, it's based on a semi-raycasted view cone, which means if you fly away from the planet, the map will go from flat, to a sphere, like you see in the gif in the devnotes. In an orbit, the sphere will rotate properly, if you continue to fly away, the sphere will get smaller and smaller, eventually winking out of existence.

 
3

Thanks for the explanation. I have to admit my understanding of raycasting does not lend itself to the idea of semi-raycasting though I would plead significant ignorance on the issue. Google-ho!! Edit: thanks Google.

Edited by patrioticparadox

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, AlamoVampire said:

personally i do not like this. it makes it sound like new parts will require mods to be used. do not like this at all. <grumbles>

The feedback we were receiving implied that the community would rather have these assets. If you do not wish to use them, that's fine. :)

  • Like 15

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, 5thHorseman said:

I kept saying this was fixable and was told it wasn't.

Who told you it wasn't? That was so obviously aliasing or some graphical artifact (based purely on the fact that the biomes were basically image "heat maps") that anyone claiming otherwise had zero idea what they were talking about.

Edited by regex
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, regex said:

Who told you it wasn't? That was so obviously aliasing or some graphical artifact (based purely on the fact that the biomes were basically image "heat maps") that anyone claiming otherwise had zero idea what they were talking about.

I don't remember the name, but it was the person who did the new biome maps. Well, the old new ones. Not the very first set, but when they added biomes to every world and redid Kerbin Mun and Minmus. I distinctly remember saying at the time to fix the aliasing and being told that it was not possible. I did not get a reason, just that it was. I kind of got the impression that Unity was possibly resizing and automatically smearing out the colors on the edges.

I didn't ever believe it, though. I figured that had to be some way to do it, even if it's loading the image file manually into a big array of numbers, instead of using it as an actual image.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, Arsonide said:

The feedback we were receiving implied that the community would rather have these assets. If you do not wish to use them, that's fine. :)

I gather that the artwork is mostly complete, but the config and stats are not. Will the revamped parts eventually be released as stock parts?

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Can I be the one to make them rocket part revamps?
can do it, I've gotten parts through PartTools before.

Barely.

OK, I got a model. It didn't work.
I just want more sig clutter. :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Arsonide said:

The feedback we were receiving implied that the community would rather have these assets. If you do not wish to use them, that's fine. :)

I'm intrigued. I'll definitely be among those who check out the models. :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Arsonide Sadly your reply does nothing to reduce my concern that it looks like Squad is taking the view (oh god i hope i am wrong) that if a player wants new parts we use a mod or can go take a long walk off a short pier. 

Please tell me i am wrong. That I have read wrong. That this is not how things are really happening, that new parts like the ones porkjet is supposedly doing will be in as stock sooner or later.

Given a personal crisis that is involving the exact opposite of clarity that is unfolding for me, getting genuine clarity would be a relief

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, 5thHorseman said:

I don't remember the name, but it was the person who did the new biome maps. Well, the old new ones. Not the very first set, but when they added biomes to every world and redid Kerbin Mun and Minmus. I distinctly remember saying at the time to fix the aliasing and being told that it was not possible. I did not get a reason, just that it was. I kind of got the impression that Unity was possibly resizing and automatically smearing out the colors on the edges.

I didn't ever believe it, though. I figured that had to be some way to do it, even if it's loading the image file manually into a big array of numbers, instead of using it as an actual image.

Tanuki Chau was not a programmer.  She most likely meant she couldn't fix it through biome editing, and she certainly couldn't.

Edited by Alshain

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Arsonide said:

The feedback we were receiving implied that the community would rather have these assets. If you do not wish to use them, that's fine. :)

I'm a little curious what kind of feedback that was.  You actually had people requesting you hand out the assets of a stock feature in development?  That's just bizzare to think someone, and enough someones to actually make it happen, would have the sheer gall to do that...

I wonder if I asked if Nintendo would give me the assets to Breath of the Wild.

Edited by Alshain
  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
50 minutes ago, AlamoVampire said:

@Arsonide Sadly your reply does nothing to reduce my concern that it looks like Squad is taking the view (oh god i hope i am wrong) that if a player wants new parts we use a mod or can go take a long walk off a short pier.

There are a great deal of new parts that @RoverDude has made for the new communications network stuff, so I'm not exactly sure why you feel this way.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, SQUAD said:

Furthermore, Nestor has some exciting news about the engine parts Chris was working on previously. If you haven’t seen these parts, well… they look awesome! Unfortunately, these parts didn’t make it to this release, but we know you are excited about them and the good news is that we will be releasing these files for you to add them to your creative inventory. Go nuts and show us what parts you can build with these great 3d assets!

I have to admit I am confused at this point. Are we talking about the redesign of the rocket parts as discussed in an earlier devnote Tuesday, or are we talking about the longer jet engines as previously discussed in this topic and displayed in the .gif below?

 

JXBbVK6.gif

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, 5thHorseman said:

I don't remember the name, but it was the person who did the new biome maps. Well, the old new ones. Not the very first set, but when they added biomes to every world and redid Kerbin Mun and Minmus. I distinctly remember saying at the time to fix the aliasing and being told that it was not possible. I did not get a reason, just that it was. I kind of got the impression that Unity was possibly resizing and automatically smearing out the colors on the edges.

I didn't ever believe it, though. I figured that had to be some way to do it, even if it's loading the image file manually into a big array of numbers, instead of using it as an actual image.

Here is the very short version :)

I start with either the source PSDs or whatever image I can get.  Some have nice hard edges, but stuff in weird places (I'm talking to you, Minmus).  Others have varying degrees of antialias built into the source image (Mun is the very worst for this - the poles were a giant gradient).  So first I clean up this.  Then make sure they are set to the same size as Unity is expecting for that biome (i.e. Kerbin gets a lot higher resolution than Gilly).  Then if the sizes match, they chew through a script that takes the source image, and spits out the biome maps we all know and love, base on a pre-determined palette.  So if we toss in a bad map (like Kerbin), it interprets some of the little edge spots as tundra instead of grasslands.  

So it is a combination of source image anti-aliasing and mismatching the asset size with the source image.  With some biomes having some, all, or none of these problems.

 

  • Like 8

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
29 minutes ago, Jasper_f said:

I have to admit I am confused at this point. Are we talking about the redesign of the rocket parts as discussed in an earlier devnote Tuesday, or are we talking about the longer jet engines as previously discussed in this topic and displayed in the .gif below?

Oh! Now that would make sense.  I had forgotten about those.  Except I thought those were already in the game and could be enabled easily with a module manager patch.

I was thinking we were talking about the supposed rocket parts redesign, but now I am wondering myself if I was mistaken.

If it is the Jet engine turbines we are talking about, they might as well be added to the game since the reasoning for keeping them out was VTOL and in the end the air intake changes all but destroyed the possibility of VTOL anyway.  I was against them for that reason but since they killed VTOL craft anyway, you might as well put them in.

Edited by Alshain
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, Arsonide said:

There are a great deal of new parts that @RoverDude has made for the new communications network stuff, so I'm not exactly sure why you feel this way.

When reading the dev notes, my assumption was that the parts would not be released due to a reduction in scope, due to wanting to release sooner rather than later. If that assumption is true, it would make sense to release the finished assets now, since they would require no QA time or resources (modded installs never require resources so limiting them to modded installs implies this). However, this doesn't preclude releasing the parts in a future update, which is what it seems @AlamoVampire is concerned about. Granted, I wouldn't expect a promise of these parts appearing in the future, but it would seem reasonable to expect the obvious clarification, which would be "Just because we're releasing the assets in this release, does not preclude us releasing the assets as parts in the future." That clarification would seem to make everyone happy?

Anyways, thanks for all the awesome work and I will miss videos of exploding Kerbals next to wheels/legs and think of you.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Arsonide said:

There are a great deal of new parts that @RoverDude has made for the new communications network stuff, so I'm not exactly sure why you feel this way.

because, there is a line that mentions the parts available for modders. Meaning to me: these particular parts are never going to be stock. which to me means: use a mod to get these parts or bug off. Then we have both of your replies, while I am super appreciative of a dev taking time to reply to a nobody like me, the lack of clarity on this issue is concerning me. Simply put, are the parts, kerbnet and porkjets and what ever parts I am forgetting to include going to be at some point a stock thing? or are some of these new parts going to be as I am fearing, mod only? This is my line of confusion Arson, will the parts you and the team are dreaming up, drawing up, coding into life and modeling, taking a detour to us via modders for flavor now, and then coming in full, squad official stock stamped parts later? or ...?

40 minutes ago, Conventia said:

When reading the dev notes, my assumption was that the parts would not be released due to a reduction in scope, due to wanting to release sooner rather than later. If that assumption is true, it would make sense to release the finished assets now, since they would require no QA time or resources (modded installs never require resources so limiting them to modded installs implies this). However, this doesn't preclude releasing the parts in a future update, which is what it seems @AlamoVampire is concerned about. Granted, I wouldn't expect a promise of these parts appearing in the future, but it would seem reasonable to expect the obvious clarification, which would be "Just because we're releasing the assets in this release, does not preclude us releasing the assets as parts in the future." That clarification would seem to make everyone happy?

Anyways, thanks for all the awesome work and I will miss videos of exploding Kerbals next to wheels/legs and think of you.

this, this too. clarity of your teams meaning is what we ask, all we ask honestly

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, DMagic said:

This version looks like it's mapping the surface onto a circle with its center at the vessel location. When you zoom out all the way (and it sounds like the max zoom distance is determined by how high the vessel is) the planet is a circle, when you zoom in that projection is maintained, just at a larger scale.

That's pretty close. It's actually an extremely simple ray tracer: no bounces, and terrain is not taken into account, but it removes the concept of a sphere being orientable (ie, the poles no longer have any meaning to the scanner).

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So reading between the lines:

Porkjet's rocket part revamp has essentially been scrapped. The work has been done, and to a high standard apparently but for reasons unknown, it will not be coming to stock. I'm disappointed.

There are old ugly parts in the stock game that need to be replaced, and now this is no longer happening.

I blame consoles. (sharpens pitchfork)

(I don't mean to detract from the out standing work that has been done for this patch, but I cannot hide my disappointment :( )

Edited by Capt Snuggler
  • Like 6

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Capt Snuggler said:

So reading between the lines:

Porkjet's rocket part revamp has essentially been scrapped. The work has been done, and to a high standard apparently but for reasons unknown, it will not be coming to stock. I'm disappointed.

There are old ugly parts in the stock game that need to be replaced, and now this is no longer happening.

I blame consoles. (sharpens pitchfork)

 

Pack KSP as it stands now, integrate Asteroid "DLC"/official mod and parts revamps, label it KSP 2 ...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, Capt Snuggler said:

So reading between the lines:

Porkjet's rocket part revamp has essentially been scrapped. The work has been done, and to a high standard apparently but for reasons unknown, it will not be coming to stock. I'm disappointed.

There are old ugly parts in the stock game that need to be replaced, and now this is no longer happening.

I blame consoles. (sharpens pitchfork)

(I don't mean to detract from the out standing work that has been done for this patch, but I cannot hide my disappointment :( )

It seams to me you are reading too much. Looks like most fo the work has been done, but they likely didn't had enough time to test it, so they are releasing what can't break the game, but can make modders happy and leaving full release for next version. Looks like win-win to me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hm. Strangely few mentions of the new biomes in this thread. Looking forward to see them, and land there!

Also, for those who say Squad keeps too quiet about planned features... I think the spectacle about Porkjet's new parts is a good illustration why it is so. Things may get in the way, you can't implement features the way you envisioned, and if you have already promised something to the fans, they will feel cheated when they don't get it. One might as well keep entirely quiet, and only tell fans about changes after they're safely implemented.

Not that I'm worried, though. 1.2 seems to be mostly about getting the existing stuff to work properly, while only introducing some minor features to make the update stand out. If everything goes as planned, KSP will then have a largely functional base to build new features on. I'm looking forward to 1.3 and 1.4 already.

  • Like 7

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, 5thHorseman said:

You mean some customers love learning unnecessary things about companies they buy products from.

Yes, this is one of those times.

Obviously something changed. Someone does not want the general population to know. We should respect that.

To each his own.  I'm a firm believer that honesty is almost always best.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
42 minutes ago, Corw said:

It seams to me you are reading too much. Looks like most fo the work has been done, but they likely didn't had enough time to test it, so they are releasing what can't break the game, but can make modders happy and leaving full release for next version. Looks like win-win to me.

But they haven't said it will be in the next release. They have only said the assets will be given to modders. other people in this thread have asked for clarity and have not gotten it.

Will Porkjet's Revamped Rocket Parts be made stock?     If the answer is not "yes" then it must be "No".

Of course I'd be delighted to be proven wrong. Please tell me I'm wrong!

Edited by Capt Snuggler
  • Like 7

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now