CommNet Signal Strength Calculator & Antenna Selector

[cyberKerb]

Hi @Poodmund, small question - what are you using to calculate the 1000year avg distances for the Systems Stats tab? Would it be possible to replicate the method to add other systems to my copy of the spreadsheet?

I've modified my copy to include all the antennas from AIES (x1) and VENs(x2) and JX2(the two smaller 300G), but I was starting to look at other planet packs like Other Worlds , ExtraSolar and among others.
 

[Poodmund]

On 12/20/2017 at 12:03 AM, wile1411 said:

Hi @Poodmund, small question - what are you using to calculate the 1000year avg distances for the Systems Stats tab? Would it be possible to replicate the method to add other systems to my copy of the spreadsheet?
 

Sorry, I saw this the other day but forgot to reply until now. I used a spreadsheet that @OhioBob created that accurately plots the positions of bodies around the Sun at midnight at each day... I got the distances between the bodies for each day for 1000 years and took the min and max values.

The spreadsheet is extensible in that I used it to do the same for the Galileo's Planet Pack bodies also. If you are interested in calculating these figures for other planet packs, shoot OhioBob a very polite and friendly message and he may just be able to help.  

[Poodmund]

Update!

• Added Level 4 Tracking Station - DSN as implemented by OPM.

Now you can calculate your comms ranges all the way out to and past Plock.  

[cyberKerb]

Hey @Poodmund, just wondering out aloud here... Your calculator is based on a Kerbin/Gael starting point for the communications. I'm thinking of working out the necessary modifications to change in the systems tab so you could have a dynamic starting point? This would be Kerbin by Default, but the idea would like you pick (for example) Laythe as the CP1 start point or maybe have CP1 set to a circular orbit height of 600,000,000,000 around Sun to simulate CP1 being a satellite starting from far Plock orbit.

I'm thinking of giving this idea a shot with some tinkering. Initial investigations found you have two different methods use to calculate the min/max distance from Kerbin / Gael.
 - For the OPM sheet you use a 1000 year table (from memory this is make to find the max distance by taking the Incl variations at different times.
 - In GPP you use a (Periapsis - source Apoapsis) for the min distance and something similar for the max distance and ignores inclination.

Would there be any material different between the two methods you utilise? Or is it a close enough is good enough kind of thing given what I plan? Alternatively, could I just use a hyponenus calc to get max distance to "vaguely" take into account inclination of the CP2 location - even if it might not ever happen. For the minimum, I'm assuming would always be when they are on the same plane, so no inclination in that calc seeing as I'll be assuming the CP1 orbit wont have an inclination.

 

To keep it simple, I'd probably keep the CP1 start point only able to be set with three values - SMA & Eccent (No inclination) and ArgofPer(Deg).

After your opinion on this one - I worry that people might find it hard to get the ArgofPer(Deg) for a Satellite in an random orbit around the Sun. I know it's available to view it via the Hyperedit interface, but would that be too much of an assumption on my part (even WITH instruction of how to get the info) for the user to be able to get that piece of information?

Edited April 19, 2018 by wile1411

[scimas]

Hey @Poodmund, this is wonderful tool! I was wondering in which software did you create the spreadsheets? Because it works flawlessly when I use it in google docs, but if I download it as an excel file, the whole file gets messed up. The drop down lists show only deep space network 1 (repeatedly in place of all antennas), it somehow interprets blank cells as not numbers and so generates a ton of division by zeros... and so on. I wanted to know if there was any way to fix that.

[Poodmund]

4 hours ago, scimas said:

Hey @Poodmund, this is wonderful tool! I was wondering in which software did you create the spreadsheets? Because it works flawlessly when I use it in google docs, but if I download it as an excel file, the whole file gets messed up. The drop down lists show only deep space network 1 (repeatedly in place of all antennas), it somehow interprets blank cells as not numbers and so generates a ton of division by zeros... and so on. I wanted to know if there was any way to fix that.

Hi Scimas. The whole document was created within Google Sheets and to that note, some functions may not work correctly in Excel (maybe) as the function list between Google Sheets and Excel are different in some areas, however, if you have some Excel knowledge you should be able to trace back the dependency that is causing the issue and change the formula.

Which part exactly is causing the issue, do you have a screenshot, cell and formula reference of it?

On 4/19/2018 at 12:25 AM, wile1411 said:

I'm thinking of giving this idea a shot with some tinkering. Initial investigations found you have two different methods use to calculate the min/max distance from Kerbin / Gael.
 - For the OPM sheet you use a 1000 year table (from memory this is make to find the max distance by taking the Incl variations at different times.
 - In GPP you use a (Periapsis - source Apoapsis) for the min distance and something similar for the max distance and ignores inclination.

Would there be any material different between the two methods you utilise? Or is it a close enough is good enough kind of thing given what I plan? Alternatively, could I just use a hyponenus calc to get max distance to "vaguely" take into account inclination of the CP2 location - even if it might not ever happen. For the minimum, I'm assuming would always be when they are on the same plane, so no inclination in that calc seeing as I'll be assuming the CP1 orbit wont have an inclination.

To keep it simple, I'd probably keep the CP1 start point only able to be set with three values - SMA & Eccent (No inclination) and ArgofPer(Deg).

After your opinion on this one - I worry that people might find it hard to get the ArgofPer(Deg) for a Satellite in an random orbit around the Sun. I know it's available to view it via the Hyperedit interface, but would that be too much of an assumption on my part (even WITH instruction of how to get the info) for the user to be able to get that piece of information?

The GPP calculator does not use a 1000 year table because I was too lazy to calculate all these figures for the 30 or so bodies that GPP has.  

The difference between these two methods is somewhat considerable. Just using the Apo-Peri figures will always give you a larger distance value because the bodies are at the furthest extents and are co-planar. If you just take inclination into account, this is not really representative as you also need to consider the Argument of Periapsis... and then again the Epoch and Universe Time... and at this point you may as well do the calcs to give the figures over a long period of time. Ultimately, just using the Apo-Peri figures will give you worst case scenarios.

If someone had super coding skills, you could reference KSP's API on an external site potentially to dynamically calculate all of these distances pretty easily. There was a Discord plugin that hooked into KSP to give the players game status so I am sure it could be possible.

[Ahres]

I'm sorry guys, I've been trying to do some studying before I ask but I'm still not understanding. Say I wanted to do a relay-lander combo mission. If I just had a dinky little Communotron 16 on the lander and left the relay in orbit around Duna using a DSN 3, how could I enter this in the spreadsheet to find what I'd need on the relay to ensure a connection? Or is that not how this sheet works?

[Poodmund]

On 5/25/2018 at 4:36 PM, Ahres said:

I'm sorry guys, I've been trying to do some studying before I ask but I'm still not understanding. Say I wanted to do a relay-lander combo mission. If I just had a dinky little Communotron 16 on the lander and left the relay in orbit around Duna using a DSN 3, how could I enter this in the spreadsheet to find what I'd need on the relay to ensure a connection? Or is that not how this sheet works?

As long as your relay craft can talk back to the DSN solely on its 'relay antennas' and your lander craft has enough range to communicate with your relay you should be fine.

You can simulate the numbers with these kind of connections but by default the calculator only considers the connection between 2 points.

To do this, calculate the Signal Strength (max/min) between the DSN and your main relay craft, then calculate the Signal Strength between your main relay craft and your lander... do this by changing your Required Range value (Cell K7) to the distance between the two vessels. I'd suggest setting this at the max distance for max reliability. Then multiply the two strengths together i.e. DSN -> Relay min strength = 20%, Relay -> Lander min strength = 50%... therefore through connection min strength = 10%(?) I think this is how it calculates the strength.

Be aware though that all you need is a 0< Signal Strength to have control to your lander.

[Ahres]

That makes perfect sense. Good explanation. Thanks for all you do @Poodmund.

[Poodmund]

Update!

• Added the antennas from the following mods: ReStock Plus, CommNet Antennas Extension and the additional antennas from JX2Antenna.

Please remember that you can toggle your antenna mod packs on/off on the 'Antennas' sheet with the tick boxes in Column B.  

[birdog357]

Great spreadsheet. "Small" issue: The system scale modifier does not change the min/max distances at all. It does update the orbital parameters but that's it.

[Poodmund]

On 8/17/2019 at 6:56 PM, birdog357 said:

Great spreadsheet. "Small" issue: The system scale modifier does not change the min/max distances at all. It does update the orbital parameters but that's it.

Sorry I missed this issue. I think I have fixed the problem so that now when you edit the System Rescale Factor value, the Min. Max. distances between the bodies on the main sheet page are dynamically updated to reflect the rescale modifier.

Update!

• Edited the system stats page to correctly adjust the min/max distances between Kerbin and other bodies depending on the 'System Rescale Factor' value input by the user, which in turn correctly adjusts the 'Can I reach these systems from Kerbin?' chart on the main sheet frontpage.

Edited November 17, 2019 by Poodmund

[Poodmund]

Update!

• Added the Near Future: Exploration antennae to the list for selection.

At this time, I haven't modelled NF:Ex reflector/feed module support into the calculator but I am thinking about how I can do so. No promises but I'd like to.

[Poodmund]

Update!

• Full support for Near Future: Exploration antenna feed/reflector mechanic.

I mulled over how I would be able to handle whether to display the antenna feed/reflector mechanic dependant on whether the user wanted it enabled or not and it would have been a bit of a spaghetti-code nightmare so I have separated it off into its own sheet called: "NF:Ex (Reflectors) Calculator". It works in a very similar manner to the main "Antenna Selector" sheet but also allows you to specify a reflector if you are pointing an antenna at it.

Please Note: The Antenna Feed/Reflector mechanic works as follows 'Buffed Antenna Power' = ('Base Antenna Power' + 'Reflector Boost Power') * 'Antenna Feed Scale'. The 'Buffed Antenna Power' is then considered as the base antenna power when calculating any combined values.

Screenshot of the new "NF:Ex (Reflectors) Calculator" below:

If you have any queries, questions or find any bugs, please let me know.  

Edited May 9, 2020 by Poodmund

[flart]

I believe System Rescale Factor still doesn't change anything.

Also, could you make modifier for the DSN and all antennas like the stock settings. It will make table more-or-less JNSQ-ready

[Poodmund]

On 12/15/2020 at 8:36 AM, flart said:

I believe System Rescale Factor still doesn't change anything.

Also, could you make modifier for the DSN and all antennas like the stock settings. It will make table more-or-less JNSQ-ready

It only wasn't working for cells L14:M14, all the others were being affected by the Rescale Factor, however, thank you for bringing this to my attention, I've fixed that.  

With respect to your other point, O5 is a modifer for all antennae and P5 is a modifer for the DSN, just like the stock settings.

[flart]

Oh, I hadn't seen the O-Q columns, everything works.   
(I was trying to change E1 on system stat table)

 

[Noah Foloni]

what is the difference between control point 1 and 2? Is 2 the craft and 1 the groundstation, or is 1 antenna 1 and 2 antenna 2?

 

nvm i figured it out

 

[Noah Foloni]

Hi Ok so I have a relay of 3 of the RA-100s in Kerbin's Orbit, Minmus's Orbit, Duna's Orbit and Sarnus's orbit. How do I add that signal to my dsn without removing my craft?

[Poodmund]

KSP is only ever interested in the connection between 2 points at any given instance. If you're trying to consider a relayed link from the DSN to a Relay Sat and then onto an Endpoint Sat, first calculate the link between the DSN and the Relay Sat... say signal strength here is at 60%... then calculate the signal strength between the Relay Sat and the Endpoint Sat.. say the strength between these two is 80%. The resultant strength is multiplicative, 60% * 80% is 48%. 

Note that for control you only ever need a greater than zero signal strength.

[Noah Foloni]

I'm Confused, So if I have a signal strength of 100 For DSN --> Relay Sat & 100 for Relay Sat --> Endpoint, I'd only have a signal strength of 1. How does that even work?!

Edited February 25, 2021 by DaBakonAder

[GabeTeuton]

On 2/25/2021 at 4:29 PM, DaBakonAder said:

I'm Confused, So if I have a signal strength of 100 For DSN --> Relay Sat & 100 for Relay Sat --> Endpoint, I'd only have a signal strength of 1. How does that even work?!

1 is equal to 100%, so you'll have the maximun signal strength possible in the situation you just described.

Otherwise if you had 100% between DSN and your Relay Network, and 50% from your vessel to the Relay Network, then the connection strength from your vessel to DSN would be 100% times 50%, or... 1 * 0.5, which end up being 0.5, or 50%.

if you also add an unmanned probe in the surface of whatever planet, there's another connection point in that network for you to also multiply:

DSN >>>(1) Relay Network around Kerbin >>>(2) Main Vessel >>>(3) Probe landed, in this case there's 4 things connected by "3" connections (">>>" = connection), keeping the same numbers as above you are missing one strength, that is the last connection:

>>>(1) strength 100% (or 1)

>>>(2) strength 50% (or 0.5)

>>>(3) let's say strength 30% (or 0.3)

the when the probe is the active vessel you'll see a signal strength of [1 * 0.5 * 0.3] or 0.15/15%

or at least that's how i would calculate it based on what's said previously... i always struggle with relays personally...

[Noah Foloni]

So essentially if my dsn strength is 100% and my relay's Strength is 100% then my other rocket SHOULD be 100%, but only if its in range

 

[Noah Foloni]

Hey quick question poodmund, how do i get the relay strength calculator to calculate the strength of the dsn relay

[Blaarkies]

@Poodmund Thanks for this awesome tool! It has inspired me to make an interactive tool