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[1.12.x] Konstruction! Weldable ports, servos, cranes, and magnets!


RoverDude
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6 minutes ago, invultri said:

Ah like that, will try to do that when i get home (and install kis/kas + send a crew). Thanks again.

@RoverDude

 Could you maybe improve the error message to indicate if the selected port is the root part or the other?

i think it was suggested that he just make it so the konstruction ports cant be root at all, but i dont know if he saw that or decided to put any thought into it.

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3 hours ago, putnamto said:

i think it was suggested that he just make it so the konstruction ports cant be root at all, but i dont know if he saw that or decided to put any thought into it.

make an issue on github

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With some defty engineers to navigate the issues with rooted ports I was able to manage to put together the base for this science station!

IYma1z9m.pngB7iUnpTm.pngo4fm6sWm.png

It was a good exercise to learn the settings on the ports as well, all in all they are a great addition to the station building arsenal. I never got 2 ports to connect under the 90 degree corners nor that they wanted to dock both, is that even possible ? (I now used the collapse+rotate option and just removed the one that was not connecting in the circle)

Edited by invultri
clarification
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On 6/19/2018 at 4:38 PM, invultri said:

With some defty engineers to navigate the issues with rooted ports I was able to manage to put together the base for this science station!

IYma1z9m.pngB7iUnpTm.pngo4fm6sWm.png

It was a good exercise to learn the settings on the ports as well, all in all they are a great addition to the station building arsenal. I never got 2 ports to connect under the 90 degree corners nor that they wanted to dock both, is that even possible ? (I now used the collapse+rotate option and just removed the one that was not connecting in the circle)

nice station.

i use the dock rotate mod for rotation purposes, every time i even thought about messing with any of the settings on the konstruction ports they would break completely until i removed them and reattached them.

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7 hours ago, putnamto said:

nice station.

i use the dock rotate mod for rotation purposes, every time i even thought about messing with any of the settings on the konstruction ports they would break completely until i removed them and reattached them.

Thanks for the tip. I will giving that mod a try.

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11 hours ago, putnamto said:

niiiiiice.

how many parts? and what FPS, and whats your specs(the pc that is)

337 parts as shown on the screenshot at 25fps (the green bar on the performance in the debug) with some dips. However I did do some part welding:

yRnG1PPm.png

As for specs I have a: Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-4790K CPU @ 4.00GHz

Edited by invultri
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  • 3 weeks later...

Did anyone test that idea to make the konstruction ports no longer be root parts? I am yet again running into that issue while building a colony ship in orbit.

Edit: Pro tip bring a small ladder when using KIS to resolve the docking port is a root part issue, it makes it way easier.

Edited by invultri
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@RoverDude A question, if I only want to use the Konstruction/welding docking ports from this mod, do I need anything out of the USI tools folder bundled with this mod, or can I just delete everything else out of the Konstruction folder and add that by itself?

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Hey guys.  I am having issues with the PAL wheel deploying too forcefully and either going through the ground (at which point it becomes completely immobile) or flinging the vehicle it is attached to high into the air (this is on Kerbin, I imagine it is much worse on lower gravity worlds).  Has anyone come up with a fix for this?  I would like to edit the .cfg file to reduce the "deploy force" if that is possible, but I'm not sure where to start.  I see there is also an issue raised on Github but no response as of yet.

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Has anyone had any luck with the construction ports becoming root?  This has been driving me crazy as I try build a mothership in orbit by bringing up a few modules at a time.  I've read through this and tried the KIS/KAS fix but I couldn't get it to work.  I did have my ports suddenly work once but I have no idea what I did to make it work.  I also saw the comment about mated construction ports in the launch vehicle being the cause and I've been trying to find a way around that.  Here's how I usually launch things:

My launch vehicles are standard sub assemblies I've built minus docking ports or decouplers.  I add those close to launch as I start building  the entire rocket.  My current build for my mothership has upper stages that look like this:

(Craft 1 Upper Stage)(Construction Port)(Construction Port)(First Module)

(Craft 2 Upper Stage)(Construction Port)(Construction Port)(Second Module)(Construction Port)   *NOTE There are construction ports on both ends of this module as it's the second module in the chain and will dock with the first one and then have others added on later.

Once both craft are in orbit I decouple Craft 1 Upper Stage from the First Module and then dock Craft Two to the construction port on First Module so it now looks like this:

(Craft 2 Upper Stage)(Construction Port)(Construction Port)(Second Module)(Construction Port)(Construction Port)(First Module)

The plan is to compress the ones in red so it'll look like this:

(Craft 2 Upper Stage)(Construction Port)(Construction Port)(Second Module)( First Module)

Then I'd rinse and repeat down the line bringing up more craft.  The problem is I can't compress the ones I've listed in red as one of them is now the root part.  I tried the KIS/KAS thing and I couldn't get it to work.  The comment somewhere on page 20 of this thread mentioned the mated construction ports on the launch vehicles making the port the root after decouple which if I understand it right, this is happening:

(Craft 1 Upper Stage)(Construction Port)(Construction Port)(First Module) >>>> decouple >>>> (Craft 1 Upper Stage)(Construction Port)         (Root Construction Port)(First Module)

So when I dock craft two to the first module I get this:

(Craft 2 Upper Stage)(Construction Port)(Construction Port)(Second Module)(Construction Port)(Root Construction Port)(First Module)

I was playing around with docking and undocking the upper stages, redocking the first and second modules and at some point something got rerooted and I could compress the parts but I have no idea what I did or how to recreate it.  I was thinking about putting a two way decoupler between the mated construction ports so it would look like this but I'm not sure that would fix it:

(Craft Upper Stage)(Construction Port)(Two Decoupler)(Construction Port)(First Module)

I haven't tried this yet but I think it'll just cause the same issue.  I like the idea of using the construction ports to build my mothership and I don't seem to have these issues when I build stations, just my mother ship.  I could just build the whole ship in the SPH or VAB and Hyperedit into orbit but I like doing the laucnhes and docking, doing it with Hyperedit wouldn't be as fun.  Any help or suggestions would be much appreacted.  For now I'm going to explore ways to get my modules up there without have the construction ports mated on the launch vehicle.  Thanks in advance.

*Sorry if the formatting of my post looks awful

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@blackrabbit How do you construct your vehicles, which delivers modules to the mothership? What is the root part?

 

When I build station, I always reroot to some part on upper stage (probe, cabin) which stays last, just to be sure, that no port is a root.

 

As I look at your description again, try to have the root part of the first craft on a stage which stays in space. If you have it on the upper stage which returns back, then after decoupling will be a port definitelly the root.

Edited by maja
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Thanks @maja.

I made a little progress that seems to be working so far.  So what I'm doing now is putting a two decoupler between the mated construction ports like this:

(Craft Upper Stage)(Construction Port)(Two way decoupler)(Construction Port)(Module)

After docking with the next craft I then undock the craft upper stage and park it nearby, then I decouple the two way decoupler from the upp stage and redock again.  This seems to allow me to collapse the construction ports going down the line.  I may have some issues when I get to the end but I'mm deal with that later.  So it looks like this now:

(Craft 1 Upper Stage)(Construction Port)(Two way decoupler)(Construction Port)(First Module)

(Craft 2 Upper Stage)(Construction Port)(Two way decoupler)(Construction Port)(Second Module)(Construction Port)

Then

(Craft 1 Upper Stage)(Two way decoupler) *parked nearby about 200m away 

(Craft 2 Upper Stage)(Construction Port)(Two way decoupler)(Construction Port)(Second Module)(Construction Port)(Construction Port)(First Module)

Then decouple:

(Craft 2 Upper Stage)(Construction Port)(Two way decoupler)             (Construction Port)(Second Module)(Construction Port)(Construction Port)(First Module)

Then again

(Craft 2 Upper Stage)(Construction Port)             (Two way decoupler)             (Construction Port)(Second Module)(Construction Port)(Construction Port)(First Module)

Then dock

(Craft 2 Upper Stage)(Construction Port)(Construction Port)(Second Module)(Construction Port)(Construction Port)(First Module)   *This seems to reroot allowing me to collapse:

(Craft 2 Upper Stage)(Construction Port)(Construction Port)(Second Module)(First Module)

Then I deorbit the upper stage parked 200m away.  Then I repeat this process and it seems to be working so far.  It's not the best way but it seems to be working so far.

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@blackrabbit It seems a little bit complicated to me, but I don't know what you're trying to build. What I'm doing when I construct something in orbit is this: Ship first module to the orbit. This first part in orbit is the root of a lifter. Every other module is strapped to a lifter. The root part is something in the upper stage of the lifter. Definitelly not anything on the module and I make that sure by rerooting twice (from the current root and to the root I want). I never had a problem with colapsing ports if it's done correctly.

The problems with a port as a root are when the game needs to create a new root after splitting a vessel and don't have the other one defined. The game then selects the first part in the part tree of the new vessel. Usually a port :)

 

edit: I'm writing this on my phone, so I hope that my explanation is understandable. I can't attach images.

Edited by maja
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@blackrabbit

If you have KIS, the easiest way to force a reroot is to detach the port and reattach it. If the port is indeed the root part you have to detach "everything else", thus the part directly connected to the root part.

@maja

Thanks for the tips on the rerooting, I understand the process a whole lot better now. There is still the risk of it happening when you want to move the module after it has been docked (to realign or something).

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So I have an update...

I did manage to get my mothership built.  I was reading some other comments about renaming the ships and changing the vessel types.  What I wound up doing was I would make sure the mothership being built was changed to a "ship" after each build phase.  Then the upper stage/module I was going to dock I made sure I changed that to "station".  Once I docked I was able to compress the construction ports with no issue.  I also made sure on my rocket before launch that my root part was always a part a few modules behind the construction ports with some other stuff in between just in case, so like this:

(Main engines and rest of rocket stages)(Upper Stage)(Root Probe core or Remote Guidance Unit)(RCS tank)(reaction wheel)(Construction ports and module)

These things seemed to stop the port becoming root and I was able to get my ship built.  Thanks guys you were a huge help.

I also made sure that when I attaching the construction ports that they would all line up at the same roll orientation, meaning the handles along the outer edge all lined up when docked.  I don't think that matters but I wanted to make sure.

P.S. I did accidentally compress one of my modules rolled 180 degrees from the orientation I actually wanted it which isn't a big deal.  I didn't notice it until about 2 or 3 modules later.  It's irritating me just enough to want to start over but I won't since my ship is now built and ready to begin my Mun colony missions.

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I ran into the root node issue myself over the weekend. The key thing for me was to remember to re-root the ships in the VAB so that the root node for the vessel was set back from any construction ports

I've added some words to the Konstruction wiki page warning future users of the ports about this :)

If a vessel is launched without ensuring this then you might be able to fix it with the KAS connectors hack, but I've found that it's not always reliable :-(

If it was possible for Konstruction to provide a re-rooting capability, or even do it automatically, that would be awesome. Maybe detect that the root node construction port is a "leaf" node for one half of a join (ie. it has a construction port on one side and something else on the other) and shift the root port back one node to the non-construction-port node.

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I used construction ports for the first time this weekend and ran into the root node problem. The problem port I fixed by changing the KIS settings to let my Engineer move 100T at 50m to yank the construction ports out of the problem area. For the second launch of the same design, all I changed was to add the small domed aero fairing over the problem construction port and that seemed to shift the root node to the fairing. So now I launch construction ports with covers if they are at the front end of my ship. Since they can act as a one time decoupler it's not a big deal to pop the covers before docking. 

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7 hours ago, Tonka Crash said:

I used construction ports for the first time this weekend and ran into the root node problem. The problem port I fixed by changing the KIS settings to let my Engineer move 100T at 50m to yank the construction ports out of the problem area. For the second launch of the same design, all I changed was to add the small domed aero fairing over the problem construction port and that seemed to shift the root node to the fairing. So now I launch construction ports with covers if they are at the front end of my ship. Since they can act as a one time decoupler it's not a big deal to pop the covers before docking. 

Be aware that I've done this and the game has moved the root node back from the thing on top of the port to the port itself post launch. This happened in my most recent construction of a large interplanetary ship, I ended up having to launch a replacement for the (large, expensive) part that I couldn't re-root the darned node on.

This is why I recommend manually choosing a root node back behind the construction port so it won't be moved to the port when the ship is reconfigured.

Edited by r1chardj0n3s
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1 hour ago, r1chardj0n3s said:

Be aware that I've done this and the game has moved the root node back from the thing on top of the port to the port itself post launch. This happened in my most recent construction of a large interplanetary ship, I ended up having to launch a replacement for the (large, expensive) part that I couldn't re-root the darned node on.

This is why I recommend manually choosing a root node back behind the construction port so it won't be moved to the port when the ship is reconfigured.

I've always chosen whatever is commanding the rocket as root and that module usually does not even have a construction port in it.

This is the order I launched:

{top of stack}[1.25 dome fairing][construction port][module 1][construction port][module 2][standard docking port][mk1-3pod (set as root in VAB) fuel & engine][decoupler][booster]{bottom of stack}

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  • 3 weeks later...

Is there a video of the angle stuff for the ports?

I read this: https://github.com/UmbraSpaceIndustries/MKS/wiki/Functions-(Konstruction)

Which was somewhat helpfull, but trying it out on the runway I just can't get it to rotate, from what I understand rotation happens during the "Acquire" process, I've got two cans with ports on each of them, I undocked, reset acquire, it docked, I then twiddled with the rotate and undocked again, but it seemed that reset acquire wouldn't work anymore, I couldn't get it to re-dock.

 

The weld and rotate warning didn't make a hell of a lot of sense on that page either, needed more pictures for that.

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I can't help you with the rotate function on the Konstruction ports as I have been using Dock Rotate before I ever started using Konstruction. I found Dock Rotate works with the Konstruction port, so I never had a reason to try the Konstruction port method. You might try it if you can't get the Konstruction implemented port rotation to work.

 

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Ah yeah I was looking at that and just installed it, it works with the Konstruction ports out of the box? I read the whole thread and people were saying it'd be nice if it did, but I didn't see anywhere that defiantly said it did work with them.

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