[1.12.x] Konstruction! Weldable ports, servos, cranes, and magnets!

[nebuchadnezzar]

@RoverDude I've been playing with the 1.2 Dev version of Kerbal Joint Reinforcement (KJR) and I've noticed an issue when using the collapsible docking ports.  When triggered, the docking ports disappear, but the parts are positioned incorrectly, with gaps where the ports used to be. Also, it appears dependent parts don't move along with the parent part like they are supposed to. Here is a picture to help you see what I'm seeing. Here is my log file.

I know KJR isn't your mod, and as such, not really your problem, but I was wondering if this was something that would need to be fixed on your end or KJR's end. Thank you for all your hard work, I really love all your mods!

[Boiler1]

15 hours ago, DStaal said:

I think you could just leave the keys as they are for that - if the Kerbal is on EVA, it can use a nearby part to help lift, and you don't need to have the keys available for a craft if the craft isn't the 'active' controller when using KIS.

I am planning on doing the same, and sending in a PR with a completed config.  I can leave that to you if you want, or if someone could give me good ideas on what are the max lifting capacities are for the various parts then I could write something up.  (I was going to test that myself, but I can't run 1.2.)  I could set some random max amount, but I think it'd be better if they can only lift the same amount via KIS as they could via their normal controls.    (Same with range: Set it to their reach, instead of just some big number.)

I am thinking 10 tons for anything with a Magnet.  They can pickup this much so it is not something you cannot already do in the game.  This is just an estimation, if someone else has a better number with math to back it up, I am open to suggestion?

5 hours ago, Tarheel1999 said:

But why do the key bindings matter if you can only use KIS functionality while on EVA. Unless something has changed, KIS will not work if the Kerbal is in a command seat, like the Akita. 

You are a few thoughts ahead of me.  I did not realize you cannot use KIS unless on EVA.  So, I agree with you.  I found the module to add KIS pickup (ModuleKISPickup) to a module, but I have not got it to work yet, any suggestions?

Edited October 25, 2016 by Boiler1
spacing

[RoverDude]

56 minutes ago, nebuchadnezzar said:

@RoverDude I've been playing with the 1.2 Dev version of Kerbal Joint Reinforcement (KJR) and I've noticed an issue when using the collapsible docking ports.  When triggered, the docking ports disappear, but the parts are positioned incorrectly, with gaps where the ports used to be. Also, it appears dependent parts don't move along with the parent part like they are supposed to. Here is a picture to help you see what I'm seeing. Here is my log file.

I know KJR isn't your mod, and as such, not really your problem, but I was wondering if this was something that would need to be fixed on your end or KJR's end. Thank you for all your hard work, I really love all your mods!

This is a KJR problem, and he will need to fix this.  Or send me a pull request.

Edited October 25, 2016 by RoverDude

[Mikki]

I welded a huge interplanetary vessel with lots o parts from USI and KerbalAtomics and NFE, with struts and science bits and whatnot. Latest GitHub release looks to work perfect here, all parts are precicely in place after welding from back to front in four large segments, amazing work! It`s just great!

[DStaal]

1 hour ago, Boiler1 said:

I am thinking 10 tons for anything with a Magnet.  They can pickup this much so it is not something you cannot already do in the game.  This is just an estimation, if someone else has a better number with math to back it up, I am open to suggestion?

You are a few thoughts ahead of me.  I did not realize you cannot use KIS unless on EVA.  So, I agree with you.  I found the module to add KIS pickup (ModuleKISPickup) to a module, but I have not got it to work yet, any suggestions?

For the first, my plan was to experiment: Send out a bunch of Kontainers with different weights, and see what it's possible to lift.  That plan's gone by the wayside a bit because I can't run 1.2, but if you don't mind doing the bit of work, you could find out fairly quickly.

As for the second:

@PART[PAL_Crane]:NEEDS[KIS]
{
    MODULE
    {
        name = ModuleKISPickup
        allowPartAttach = true
        allowStaticAttach = true
        allowPartStack = true
        maxDistance = 10
        grabMaxMass = 10
        dropSndPath = KIS/Sounds/drop
        attachPartSndPath = KIS/Sounds/attachPart
        detachPartSndPath= KIS/Sounds/detachPart
        attachStaticSndPath= KIS/Sounds/attachStatic
        detachStaticSndPath= KIS/Sounds/detachStatic
    }
}

I've tested this (with a different part) in 1.1.3, and it worked as expected, allowing me to move parts around.  As I said: If you can get me the realistic max weights, I can work out the rest.  I believe you could probably set those 'true' values to 'false', but I haven't tested yet - my test part is designed for orbital work, so I'm hoping for surface parts so I can test a bit better.

[Tarheel1999]

1 hour ago, Boiler1 said:

I am thinking 10 tons for anything with a Magnet.  They can pickup this much so it is not something you cannot already do in the game.  This is just an estimation, if someone else has a better number with math to back it up, I am open to suggestion?

You are a few thoughts ahead of me.  I did not realize you cannot use KIS unless on EVA.  So, I agree with you.  I found the module to add KIS pickup (ModuleKISPickup) to a module, but I have not got it to work yet, any suggestions?

@DStaal posted a config for this several pages back. Try using his config and change the mass to 10. 

edit - ninjaed

@nebuchadnezzar Ferram asked that problems with the Konstruction ports/parts be raised in the KJR thread and not here. 

 

Edited October 25, 2016 by Tarheel1999

[TheCardinal]

I've downloaded the latest version (0.1.6) and somehow the ports refuse to dock to each other. The magnetism keeps the ports on each other but no docking occurs. A strange thing i noticed was that even though the ports are on each other, the distance is reported as several meters. That seems quite odd as one of the ports is set as target and the other has been set to "control from here". I'm at a loss, since none of those things occured with a prior version, although i can't rule out a nasty influence of another mod.

Are there known incompatibilities?

 

[Boiler1]

DStaal your script worked.  I had the same code but was missing a bracket causing it not to function.  Testing masses now.

10 tons on the magnetic coupler can be lifted while on Kerbin.

6 tons on the crane as it can reach far causing the vehicle to lose leverage, and flip over.

 

@PART[PAL_Claw]:NEEDS[KIS]
{
	MODULE
	{
    		name = ModuleKISPickup      		  
    		allowPartAttach = true
    		allowStaticAttach = false
    		allowPartStack = false
    		maxDistance = 12
    		grabMaxMass = 10
    		dropSndPath = KIS/Sounds/drop
    		attachPartSndPath = KIS/Sounds/attachPart
    		detachPartSndPath= KIS/Sounds/detachPart
    		attachStaticSndPath= KIS/Sounds/attachStatic
    		detachStaticSndPath= KIS/Sounds/detachStatic
	}
}

@PART[PAL_Magnet]:NEEDS[KIS]
{
	MODULE
	{
    		name = ModuleKISPickup      		  
    		allowPartAttach = true
    		allowStaticAttach = false
    		allowPartStack = false
    		maxDistance = 12
    		grabMaxMass = 10
    		dropSndPath = KIS/Sounds/drop
    		attachPartSndPath = KIS/Sounds/attachPart
    		detachPartSndPath= KIS/Sounds/detachPart
    		attachStaticSndPath= KIS/Sounds/attachStatic
    		detachStaticSndPath= KIS/Sounds/detachStatic
	}
}

@PART[PAL_Gripper]:NEEDS[KIS]
{
	MODULE
	{
    		name = ModuleKISPickup      		  
    		allowPartAttach = true
    		allowStaticAttach = false
    		allowPartStack = false
    		maxDistance = 10
    		grabMaxMass = 6
    		dropSndPath = KIS/Sounds/drop
    		attachPartSndPath = KIS/Sounds/attachPart
    		detachPartSndPath= KIS/Sounds/detachPart
    		attachStaticSndPath= KIS/Sounds/attachStatic
    		detachStaticSndPath= KIS/Sounds/detachStatic
	}
}
@PART[PAL_Crane]:NEEDS[KIS]
{
    MODULE
    {
        name = ModuleKISPickup
        allowPartAttach = true
        allowStaticAttach = false
        allowPartStack = false
        maxDistance = 16
        grabMaxMass = 6
        dropSndPath = KIS/Sounds/drop
        attachPartSndPath = KIS/Sounds/attachPart
        detachPartSndPath= KIS/Sounds/detachPart
        attachStaticSndPath= KIS/Sounds/attachStatic
        detachStaticSndPath= KIS/Sounds/detachStatic
    }
}

 

Edited October 25, 2016 by Boiler1
spelling

[colfighter]

9 hours ago, Tarheel1999 said:

Actually this willl only work on 1.2. It was released during 1.2 pre-release and Spacedock didn't have 1.2 option. Regardless, it is probably better to download from Github. 

https://github.com/BobPalmer/Konstruction/releases

Thanks!

[DStaal]

4 hours ago, Boiler1 said:

DStaal your script worked.  I had the same code but was missing a bracket causing it not to function.  Testing masses now.

10 tons on the magnetic coupler can be lifted while on Kerbin.

That the max?  Either way: Looks good.  Do you want to submit that as a PR to RoverDude, and hopefully get this into his next release?  (Or should I double-check it and submit it myself?)

[dboi88]

On 10/23/2016 at 1:13 PM, RoverDude said:

Looks like the pad is missing - I'll take a peek

Any news on this? At the minute any module i try picking up ends up spinning around, i guess this wouldn't happen with a targeted pad on top of the module?

Cheers

[Tarheel1999]

22 minutes ago, dboi88 said:

Any news on this? At the minute any module i try picking up ends up spinning around, i guess this wouldn't happen with a targeted pad on top of the module?

Cheers

I thought he added it in the lastest update. Have you looked for it there?

According to the GitHub repo it should be there. 

Edited October 26, 2016 by Tarheel1999

[RoverDude]

Your stuff is going to tend to spin around with a single magnet regardless - better to try with two, or grapple it with a claw.

[Boiler1]

12 hours ago, DStaal said:

That the max?  Either way: Looks good.  Do you want to submit that as a PR to RoverDude, and hopefully get this into his next release?  (Or should I double-check it and submit it myself?)

Can you double check it and submit?  As I have never submitted anything can you tell me the process to submit a PR?

[goldenpsp]

14 minutes ago, Boiler1 said:

Can you double check it and submit?  As I have never submitted anything can you tell me the process to submit a PR?

I'm not positive I do it right but the general way I have done it is...

1. Sign in to github on my account.

2. go to repo and fork it.

3. make your changes in your fork.

4. submit a PR back to roverdude's repo (as dev not master).

[DStaal]

35 minutes ago, goldenpsp said:

I'm not positive I do it right but the general way I have done it is...

1. Sign in to github on my account.

2. go to repo and fork it.

3. make your changes in your fork.

4. submit a PR back to roverdude's repo (as dev not master).

Basically, yep.  From what I understand.  You don't always need to do steps 2 and 3, depending on the type of change.

If you've used a version control system before, it's fairly straightforward.

Either way, I’m going to take a look at it in-game (with my back-ported parts under 1.1.3...) and unless you say not to I'll do a PR of my own once I've done that.

[dboi88]

5 hours ago, Tarheel1999 said:

I thought he added it in the lastest update. Have you looked for it there?

According to the GitHub repo it should be there. 

The parts been included in every release it just isn't showing in the VAB/SPH. I'm using the latest version.

3 hours ago, RoverDude said:

Your stuff is going to tend to spin around with a single magnet regardless - better to try with two, or grapple it with a claw.

I've tried 1,2,3 and 5 and they always spin around. You mean the stock claw? Is it intended that the Magnopad is currently not showing as an available part?

[Tarheel1999]

13 minutes ago, dboi88 said:

The parts been included in every release it just isn't showing in the VAB/SPH. I'm using the latest version.

I've tried 1,2,3 and 5 and they always spin around. You mean the stock claw? Is it intended that the Magnopad is currently not showing as an available part?

The part config file is borked. The part won't load until this is fixed. There's no Github issue for this which is probably why it's not changed. 

Yes, the stock claw. Konstruction adds a magnet to it. 

[dboi88]

3 minutes ago, Tarheel1999 said:

The part config file is borked. The part won't load until this is fixed. There's no Github issue for this which is probably why it's not changed. 

Yes, the stock claw. Konstruction adds a magnet to it. 

Awesome, i hadn't noticed the addition of a magnet to the stock claw, i'll have a play.

I've added an issue on the Github page. 

Thanks for your help.

[DStaal]

Ok, everyone lined up and ready for testing?

Hmm.  Minor problem Huston; we seem to have missed one:

Testing complete:

---

So, things seem to work ok.  Minus the one miss.    I'd assume the forklift can probably lift quite a bit - should I set it at 20 tones or something like that?

Oh, and taking a 20ton mass off of an Akita flatbed will shoot the Akita into the sky as the suspension releases.  Not a major problem on Kerbin - it only went a couple of meters up and came right back down - but I could see that could be a major issue on Minmus or something...

And as a suggestion direct to RoverDude: the Buffalo hitch is *very* useful in conjunction with these parts - the Akita parts especially.  Any chance we could get a similar part designed to match these?  (It's just a docking port, in a form factor designed for rovers.  Best view above is probably the center pic, with one on both ends of the flatbed.)

[Boiler1]

I left the forks off on purpose.  It is not safe to work on machinery lifted by fork trucks.  Rule several factories I have worked in have had.  In a game world, I don't see any issue with 20 tons for the forks though.  And for Kerbals, Safety 3rd!

[DStaal]

I tend to think of what we're trying to simulate here as an abstraction - 'lift and place with equipment, then fasten down by hand.' I mean, there is only one Kerbal there, he can't run the forklift and his wrench at the same time...

[Stikkychaos]

Are there more people who have issue with construction docking ports not joining? I read the issue on gthub and have to say that reloading does nothing for me - instead of locking in the ports were just smooching up a storm. I am also using KJR if that affects anything.

Edited October 26, 2016 by Stikkychaos

[Mun_Man]

On 10/3/2016 at 7:16 PM, RoverDude said:

Glad you dig it - enjoy, let me know if you have any questions or hit any bugs

 

 

hey you guys should add or make a mod that lets you explore the crafts you build and interact with them from first person EVA. So yeah love your work

[Boiler1]

StikkyChaos, The construction ports are rotation dependent, unlike standard docking ports.  If the rotation is off, they do not dock.  Although you can adjust torque and the craft will rotate into place if it is not too large.

DStaal, I envisioned KIS as the Kerbal wrenching the parts apart.  Using cranes and winches to lift and support modules.  I agree with you in principal using a fork truck to lift something up into place is reasonable.  It is just not the safe thing to do in that situation.  Considering this is a video game about little green guys that make unsafe rockets that blow up all the time, I don't think not allowing the fork truck due to safety is in line with the game.  So if you want to put it in I don't have an issue with it.

Something else to consider, what about a vehicle with 2,3, or 4 of the lifting components.  It is not hard to get the KIS mass limit to 50 which would be over the capacity of the framework.  I don't see any way to limit this do you?