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Kerbal Space Program 1.2: Loud & Clear release date and more!

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56 minutes ago, Nils277 said:

Pretty sure your Kerbals won't get a horse armor :D
 

Maybe Kerbal armor... or just bunch of pillows attached together with duct tape for "softer" lithobraking :D

 

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3 minutes ago, Dr.Wolfram said:

Maybe Kerbal armor... or just bunch of pillows attached together with duct tape for "softer" lithobraking :D

 

Or better airbags that activate (aka. explode) on "touchdown". That would be kinda kerbal. 

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33 minutes ago, TheCardinal said:

 Eeeeehmmm . those are spiders, not bugs ....:wink:

http://i3.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/112/480/OpoQQ.jpg

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4 minutes ago, Nils277 said:

Or better airbags that activate (aka. explode) on "touchdown". That would be kinda kerbal. 

Well airbags has been used (with success) for landing on Mars :wink:

 

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2 hours ago, Hannu2 said:

From where you got that crazy scenario? Modding does not conflict with DLCs. However, there are some very bad limitations in KSP's engine. For example 2D planets restrict severely terrain generation. There are things which are complex and expensive to make, like multiplayer support, large graphical overhauls etc. It is quite unrealistic to expect such things happen if there are no economic advantage to Squad to do them. Many of them are impossible to mod and others are quite impractical or mod solutions have bad restrictions. If Squad implemented the new possibilities to the core engine and sell it as DLC, modders could also use them and produce new content and KSP would be kept going and developing.

I think that there is no reason to fear that Squad will remove modding possibilities. Modders make so much free work for them and the whole game and community is based on mods. Forbidding that would probably be the economic suicide for the game.

I personally, do not feel a game should have to resort to paid DLC or paid updates if they constantly give good and new content with every new major update. As the game expands, they can increase the price ever so slightly, to make a little more money for the new content, and offer the updates for free as they have always done to those whom have already paid. I can see expansion packs, going into sections of possibilities that wouldn't be generally considered for the vanilla game. But I wouldn't want to see KSP turned into another cash cow of the video game industry. Increasing support for the game, and better updates, with better advertisement will increase profits better than offering something that used to be, or would have usually been, a free update, or mod, to those whom have already paid. 

Again expansions, things that might add things such as ocean topography, biomes, and underwater science expansions, a weapons and war expansion, adding an ever expanding, and hostile enemy space program that career has you launch attacks against, and will penalize you if you don't get to certain achievements, i.e. orbit, to the mun, or Duna before them, or a realistic Space Program expansion, allowing you to have full size earth and solar system, with properly scaled rocket parts, and models of astronauts instead of kerbals, I would gladly pay for a few of those. But having part expansions that would often be part of the vanilla game, planetary system expansions, and aerodynamic, or physics updates, disguised as "expansions" I would not be ok with. An expansion pack should be something similar to what a modder will add, but take it to a level that will either make the version with the expansion both unique, and still the same game, so each update would not remove the expansion, and possibly add to it. 

So to clarify, since I sorta rambled a bit. Expansion packs, that add a new feature to the game, that either doesn't fit the main games theme or changes the way the game is usually paid, are ok, because they are optional. But DLC or expansions that have content that the community has been accustomed to receiving in the free updates is most definitely not ok. 

If anything else, SQUAD can always invest in producing another game, and build a new community around that to continue to make a profit. It would be yet another expensive undertaking, but as long as they did not neglect their current major games project, and properly utilized the skills and experiences they had gained from the development of KSP, they not only will, but I see very little doubt that they cannot succeed. I believe this because of the track record KSP has set for SQUAD as a developer. With only one game being developed at the moment, and incredible success from it, anything they put their name behind may struggle to fail, unless it is a truly horrible project with no effort or care put in.

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29 minutes ago, Rocketscience101 said:

I personally, do not feel a game should have to resort to paid DLC or paid updates if they constantly give good and new content with every new major update.

It still takes humans to create this content on an ongoing basis. Those humans generally like to be paid in a currency useful to them to pay their living expenses. Unless there is a money tree in the Squad break room, or perhaps some sort of goose that lays platinum eggs on a continual basis, Squad needs to acquire this money via commerce.

29 minutes ago, Rocketscience101 said:

As the game expands, they can increase the price ever so slightly, to make a little more money for the new content, and offer the updates for free as they have always done to those whom have already paid.

At this point in the software's life cycle, new sales likely do not make the revenue needed to sustain support. At $40 US per copy, assuming a rent & utilities cost of $10,000 per month, you'd need to sell several hundred copies per month just to earn that (yes, the math is 10k/$40 = 250, but Squad doesn't keep all $40 from each sale). You haven't even touched on development costs at that rate. 

An option would be a massive marketing campaign to try to generate some new sales, but they are already likely near saturation. Pretty much everyone that is going to buy the game has bought the game. You might get a decent 1 time bump, but nothing to sustain development.

 

29 minutes ago, Rocketscience101 said:

But I wouldn't want to see KSP turned into another cash cow of the video game industry.

If a company is no longer making a profit by producing or sustaining a product, they stop making or sustaining that product. That's how business works. Business that lose money go out of business. 

This isn't a game like Everquest or World of Warcraft where you can continue to develop and roll out new content to a massive player base on a regular basis. There isn't much new to offer outside of expanding the game world or adding new parts. As optional content, Squad could offer this to those who want to purchase it. Those that do not wish to purchase it do not lose any functionality in the game for which they've already paid. 

And chances are, the mods for what Squad would offer already exist for free, anyway. 

To me, if there is any kind of long term development in the works, that would mean the chances are better you'd see a KSP2, built on a better engine, with better performance and more features, sold as an entirely new product. 

Edited by Torgo
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People gotta moan...

But in all seriousness; I can actually agree with some kind of update fee down the line. It's not like this game is $60 and only patched 2-3x after release like the triple-A games. For the amount of fun I have had (mainly due to mods) in KSP at $40, this is the best value I have ever gotten out of a game for my money. I'd gladly pay $20 for a big upgrade to the game, even $5-10 for the yearly updates (i.e. 1.1 > 1.2).

More functionality in the game would be great, as well as a more balanced science path (labs are seriously OP) with added options for transmitting/storing (like the science container in 1.2).

Still missing in KSP (IMHO):
- Joint Reinforcement (seriously!!!!!)
- Mechjeb. Yeah yeah... but after 2000+ launches and dockings it gets tedious to the point of becoming a chore, so lets automate this. It's not like current spacecraft need manual input for every action, heck even Apollo had computers for a lot of the work.
- Alarm Clock
- Better contracts window (nitpicking)
- Clouds
- Real solar system option (to scale, tweak gravity to 1/10 for stock play and let RSS/RO tweak it back to 1.0x, best of both worlds, litteraly)
- Science re-balance and an expanded tech tree like CTT
- Something to do besides getting science, like building a launch base on another planet (logistics, mining etc).
- Simple life support system
- More part categories (1.2 is an improvement)
- Expand the engines with LH2/Ox types

Edited by Jimbodiah
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8 minutes ago, Torgo said:

To me, if there is any kind of long term development in the works, that would mean the chances are better you'd see a KSP2, built on a better engine, with better performance and more features, sold as an entirely new product. 

I would much rather see them develop a new game, to open a new franchise then have us pay for things that have come free up until this point. They would have greater success with a new game, especially with all the development experience they now have from KSP, and have now gotten their feet wet in the video games market, giving them a recognized developer boost. Like Mojang, Valve, and even Bunji.

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36 minutes ago, Rocketscience101 said:

So to clarify, since I sorta rambled a bit. Expansion packs, that add a new feature to the game, that either doesn't fit the main games theme or changes the way the game is usually paid, are ok, because they are optional. But DLC or expansions that have content that the community has been accustomed to receiving in the free updates is most definitely not ok. 

Well frankly the community can suck it up. No money in - no Squad produced KSP content out.

 

41 minutes ago, Rocketscience101 said:

If anything else, SQUAD can always invest in producing another game, and build a new community around that to continue to make a profit. It would be yet another expensive undertaking, but as long as they did not neglect their current major games project, and properly utilized the skills and experiences they had gained from the development of KSP, they not only will, but I see very little doubt that they cannot succeed. I believe this because of the track record KSP has set for SQUAD as a developer. With only one game being developed at the moment, and incredible success from it, anything they put their name behind may struggle to fail, unless it is a truly horrible project with no effort or care put in.

Isn't it lovely to be so generous with other people's time and money. But provided the community gets a continued supply of free stuff - who cares right? Besides Squad are not a game publisher. They got lucky with KSP - there's absolutely no guarantee that a future Squad released game would be a success, even assuming they were minded to develop one. 

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10 minutes ago, Jimbodiah said:

People gotta moan...

But in all seriousness; I can actually agree with some kind of update fee down the line. It's not like this game is $60 and only patched 2-3x after release like the triple-A games. For the amount of fun I have had (mainly due to mods) in KSP at $40, this is the best value I have ever gotten out of a game for my money. I'd gladly pay $20 for a big upgrade to the game, even $5-10 for the yearly updates (i.e. 1.1 > 1.2).

Provided patches fixing bugs and glitches are still free of charge, that seems reasonable to me. I would rather have developers moving on from KSP because there's nothing more they are able to add to it than because they can't sustain themselves out of it.

As for the arguments about milking players, let's be reasonable, folks: Charging 5-10 bucks for an update isn't going to hurt anyone's pocket, and even those who can't afford that now could get it latter on sales or bundles.

This whole discussion is incredibly silly. Squad will do whatever they got to do to maintain themselves while still respecting the community that provided them the leverage to be in the position they are now, I truly believe that. If and when such a DLC or expansion pack comes along we can discuss if the price being charged is decent to the content being provided. As for its practice being conflicting with the existence of a modding community, there's plenty of evidence on the contrary for us not to worry about it.

Can we move on to the 1.2 hype train, pls? :cool:

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1 hour ago, TheCardinal said:

 Eeeeehmmm . those are spiders, not bugs ....:wink:

Nope, they're bugs ... Arachnids have segmented body's where lady bugs, Aphids and the like do not

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32 minutes ago, Jimbodiah said:

- Joint Reinforcement (seriously!!!!!)

Probably you missed it, but it is already in 1.2

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Ok, I'm done talking about paid crap. 

Can't wait for this update though. Seriously making some great strides. I'm sorry a load of developers left, and I wish them the best.

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56 minutes ago, Rocketscience101 said:

I personally, do not feel a game should have to resort to paid DLC or paid updates if they constantly give good and new content with every new major update.

I completely disagree. After several years on the market, the majority of people that will ever buy this game have already bought it. The more they raise the base price the LESS likely new players are to buy it to begin with. If anything they will have to LOWER the price to get new sales from this point on (http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/LarsDoucet/20131216/206916/The_Stegosaurus_Tail_when_quotThe_Long_Tailquot_grows_spikes.php) The only practical way to make it so that we can buy new features is to offer them as paid DLC.

If they add quality, substantial new features to the game moving forward then we should be willing to pay for it. I am not talking about fixes to the features in the game right now, but if its a substantial new feature that was not in the game when I bought it I am completely willing to pay for it.

I would even be willing to pay for officially supported and expanded versions of some of the more substantial mods like Kolonization. These game are not cheap to make and support and people should stop expecting to get everything for free.

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11 minutes ago, DoctorDavinci said:

Nope, they're bugs ... Arachnids have segmented body's where lady bugs, Aphids and the like do not

Since they have eight legs, they're spiders. Aphids and the like have only six. :cool:

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6 minutes ago, TheCardinal said:

Since they have eight legs, they're spiders. Aphids and the like have only six. :cool:

Sorry, but that is not correct ... a Daddy Long-legs has 8 legs yet isn't a spider :rolleyes:

Arachnids aren't arachnids due to how many legs they have

 

Edited by DoctorDavinci
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8 minutes ago, Bluejay said:

I completely disagree. After several years on the market, the majority of people that will ever buy this game have already bought it. The more they raise the base price the LESS likely new players are to buy it to begin with. If anything they will have to LOWER the price to get new sales from this point on (http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/LarsDoucet/20131216/206916/The_Stegosaurus_Tail_when_quotThe_Long_Tailquot_grows_spikes.php) The only practical way to make it so that we can buy new features is to offer them as paid DLC.

If they add quality, substantial new features to the game moving forward then we should be willing to pay for it. I am not talking about fixes to the features in the game right now, but if its a substantial new feature that was not in the game when I bought it I am completely willing to pay for it.

I would even be willing to pay for officially supported and expanded versions of some of the more substantial mods like Kolonization. These game are not cheap to make and support and people should stop expecting to get everything for free.

 

23 minutes ago, BadLeo said:

Provided patches fixing bugs and glitches are still free of charge, that seems reasonable to me. I would rather have developers moving on from KSP because there's nothing more they are able to add to it than because they can't sustain themselves out of it.

As for the arguments about milking players, let's be reasonable, folks: Charging 5-10 bucks for an update isn't going to hurt anyone's pocket, and even those who can't afford that now could get it latter on sales or bundles.

This whole discussion is incredibly silly. Squad will do whatever they got to do to maintain themselves while still respecting the community that provided them the leverage to be in the position they are now, I truly believe that. If and when such a DLC or expansion pack comes along we can discuss if the price being charged is decent to the content being provided. As for its practice being conflicting with the existence of a modding community, there's plenty of evidence on the contrary for us not to worry about it.

Can we move on to the 1.2 hype train, pls? :cool:

I understand what y'all are saying, and would like to than you for being respectful about it. 

I agree now. but I don't feel it should happen yet. The community is still growing, and there is still more room for improvement. If they keep minor updates free, I'll be cool, and make the major ones relatively reasonable so that we can all afford them and they are able to make a profit, I'll be content with it. 

Now back to the hype. I really like the new layout of the debug menu. It'll make it so much easier to produce videos, and test vehicles in sandbox, but I really want a system so that I can design a craft in sandbox, and test it, then move the craft file over to my career mode game, so I don't have to rebuild the ships after testing them.

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11 minutes ago, DoctorDavinci said:

Sorry, but that is not correct ... a Daddy Long-legs has 8 legs yet isn't a spider :rolleyes:

Arachnids aren't arachnids due to how many legs they have

 

All arachnids have eight legs, but not all arachnids are spiders. And this is horribly off topic in the announcements section... sorry.

Yay 1.2!

Edited by Randazzo
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33 minutes ago, Rocketscience101 said:

Now back to the hype. I really like the new layout of the debug menu. It'll make it so much easier to produce videos, and test vehicles in sandbox, but I really want a system so that I can design a craft in sandbox, and test it, then move the craft file over to my career mode game, so I don't have to rebuild the ships after testing them.

You can copy the craft file over to your career file in the game directory, It's not as stream lined but it's easy enough to minimize the game and do that.

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5 minutes ago, Grease1991 said:

You can copy the craft file over to your career file in the game directory, It's not as stream lined but it's easy enough to minimize the game and do that.

Yeah, but it was the same solution we used to do for space shuttle developing, by building the shuttle in the SPH, then moving the craft file to the VAB. Which was bipassed when they added the option to select which hangar to load from. Besides, this is aeronautical and space development shouldn't everything be as streamlined as possible.:rolleyes:

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Ah, my young kerbal padawan. Once you get to Rocketscience 301 you will have realized hard work and effort is needed to become a true KSP Jedi.

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