5thHorseman

"There's no easy way to say this."

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1 minute ago, klgraham1013 said:

Companies only use NDAs to cover their backsides.  Very few things actually need to be secret if you follow good ethics.

That is so incredibly incorrect.  Companies usually use NDAs to protect products in development so their competitors won't steal the idea before they put it on the market simply by hiring an ex-employee with knowledge of it.

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1 minute ago, EliasDanger said:

I kinda feel like Squad is holding all those devs that quit in a NDA basement...all tied up and gagged.

:rolleyes:

1 minute ago, EliasDanger said:

Those devs were super active on this forum and now it seems like they aren't allowed to interact with us at all, as they haven't posted anything since their resignation on reddit.

@sarbian literally posted this hour. They're probably just catching up on sleep.

Or trolling you.

That's what I'd be doing.

This drama is delicious.

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1 hour ago, Kobymaru said:

8 Devs, some of them have been there for ages, some of them have joined recently and have been *very* enthusiastic about working on the game - suddenly they decide to "move on"? 1 Week before the release? Fixing bugs only 1 day prior? Now going completely silent while all are still online on the forums?

I'm not sure if we're on the same page with regards to how such contracts end. It's not like the devs write a mail to Squad saying "WE ALL QUIT, TODAY" and march out the door, never to be seen again. I highly doubt their contracts would allow them to quit without giving notice well in advance, and they'd have certain obligations to fulfill. If Squad's NDA is so powerful that people claim in this thread, their terms of resignation probably go along the similar lines.

Instead, I think they are contracted on a project basis. People were hired to work on a version, say 1.1, then stayed on board until work was wrapping up. Then Squad would send inquiries to its employees, asking who would like to stay  to work on 1.2. Those who say yes begin negotiations for the next term. Those who say no would see their contract end once the version is shipped, probably with a clause or two about staying on board for X amount of time afterwards to fix bugs.

Thusly, the people who quit would not have made that decision yesterday. There's no way they could drop their pencils and leave without Squad being in their full rights to withhold payment or deny them references, possibly even seeking other compensation too. If you've ever signed a work contract, you'll know that you're not allowed to just walk when it suits your whim.

So here's my theory: After 1.2, KSP is shifting away from the focus on a "next version". Making KSP v. 1.3, as we know a version with a bit of code rewrites and a bit of content, is not the next objective, it's making content packs that work well with KSP 1.2. Many of the people hired for 1.2 were there to fix the engine, to fix bugs, fix behind-the-scenes stuff. Keeping the game up to shape. When asked if they would continue to work under a different model, many of the devs would feel the times changing, and decide to move on. Working on the same project under a different schedule and different goals, or leaving at a good opportunity, with a stable game behind them, solid references and a pocketful of payment? I wouldn't be surprised if many of the mails responding to Squad contained phrases like "Thanks, but I think this is where I'll move on".

Okay, so now you have a bunch of developers peacefully quitting. How to you break the news to the community? For certain, you won't let the news drop one by one. Every dev leaving would rock the big boat of the forum community. You would have to let them quit together, to soften the blow. Imagine waking up to the news of Mike (Mu) leaving one morning. At noon Bill (Taniwha) announces his resignation. NathanKell and Sarbian in the afternoon. The next day, absolute chaos on the forums. Then Jim (Romfarer) on the morning of the third day. Brian (Arsonide) in the afternoon. Two more days of the forums howling about five devs leaving. On the fifth day, Chris (Porkjet). At this point there would be absolute carnage, and Squad would find itself in the middle of the worst crapstorm ever. News of the remaining two would kill the community completely. No, dropping one big bomb would be the only logical way to break such news.

Also, you can't announce anybody leaving until they have decided not to renew their contracts. That question would have to have been asked rather recently, since only recently did they determine when 1.2 would release (and therefore fulfill the termination condition for their existing contracts). That means, right before a version's release is when they know whether people will continue or quit. Like it or not, such news would have to drop close to the release of a new version.

Would you have preferred them to keep their departure under wraps until the version had shipped? That would only work assuming the community would not find out in advance, since if such news leak through unofficial channels, you have a crapstorm of epic proportions coming your way. The resignation of The Eight being posted on Reddit before the forums is what sparked this giant discussion to begin with. And even if you DID keep it secret for a while, then what? "Devnote Tuesday: Still relaxing after 1.2, 1.2.4 is a stable release, also eight of the most well-known staff left us three weeks ago and we didn't tell you". Yeah, that would go well with the community.

 

TL;DR:

  • It makes sense for the devs to leave at this point, assuming they were hired with a similar termination clause in their most recent contract ("contract of employment will have to be renewed following the stable release of version 1.2" or similar).
  • Changes in the direction of KSP's development makes the release of 1.2 a very natural point for a developer to reconsider his employment, and a good opportunity to move on.
  • The devs would be under contract not to leave without sufficient prior notice - they can't leave suddenly in protest without losing BIG in the process, unless Squad's employment contracts are amazingly sloppy.
  • News of their departure would have to be broken in one sitting.
  • News of their departure would have to be broken shortly after they agreed not to renew their contracts, which would coincide with the release of a new version.

Squad did make a bit of a blunder in terms of communicating the circumstances of the devs leaving, though. In most software companies, developers quitting would not affect the customers much. For Kerbal Space Program, the developers are known by name and alias by most of the active fan base. Seeing them leave is like seeing a piece fall off the game. Somebody, somewhere, underestimated this connection between the devs and the community, which left us heartbroken, confused and angry. I hope this is cleared up, some of The Eight speaking out, and that the ire dies down soon. Because I think we're far more angry than we have logical reason to be.

Happy flights, all The Eight! May your prograde vector align quickly with your nose cones!

Edited by Codraroll

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NDA's are also don't apply to salaries or reasons for quitting FYI.  They only apply to intellectual property that has not been released or is "known" through other means.  For example, the former devs could discuss 1.2 all they want because we already know what it has and therefore doesn't qualify.

I went through this whole thing with a lawyer not to long ago when I signed for a severance package. (I'm actually under an NDA until March in fact)

Edited by Alshain

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4 minutes ago, Alshain said:

That is so incredibly incorrect.  Companies usually use NDAs to protect products in development so their competitors won't steal the idea before they put it on the market simply by hiring an ex-employee with knowledge of it.

Very few things.  Medical records and trade secrets (grandma's best selling chili recipe) I understand.  Forcing people into silence is not.  If you treat your employees well, any claim to the contrary can be disputed.  Silence only brings suspicion.  As we have evidenced.

Edited by klgraham1013

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1 minute ago, Alshain said:

NDA's are also don't apply to salaries or reasons for quitting

This is completely true. If anything is prompting these devs to refrain from talking about their departure, it's not NDA, but the fact that badmouthing former employers looks bad to future employers.

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2 minutes ago, regex said:

:rolleyes:

@sarbian literally posted this hour. They're probably just catching up on sleep.

Or trolling you.

That's what I'd be doing.

This drama is delicious.

Well, at least we know one is still alive and hasn't been fed to the kraken to insure his silence.

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4 minutes ago, Jarin said:

This is completely true. If anything is prompting these devs to refrain from talking about their departure, it's not NDA, but the fact that badmouthing former employers looks bad to future employers.

This is true.  Especially online where a simple background check could show it.

4 minutes ago, klgraham1013 said:

Very few things.  Medical records and trade secrets (grandma's best selling chili recipe) I understand.  Forcing people into silence is not.  If you treat your employees well, any claim to the contrary can be disputed.  Silence only brings suspicion.  As we have evidenced.

An NDA is not powerful enough to force people into silence as you suggest.  That isn't what is keeping them silent.

EDIT: At least from the standpoint of U.S. Law, I don't know the laws of every country.  In our country there are very few things that can limit your freedom of speech, and NDA's have to be very thoroughly proven in court before  lawsuit against a violator will succeed.

Edited by Alshain

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2 hours ago, Wallygator said:

"Hiring more Devs..."

hahaha, we so need this. Stealing for my new signature.

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The bad part about Arsonside leaving is imho, contracts have had a long way to go before they were really cool.  

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8 hours ago, RX2000 said:

Having lived & worked in Mexico, I'm guessing that Squad doesnt pay its devs what most people in the developed world would consider a "good" wage. I have professional friends that live in Mexico who only make the equivalent of $500 a month or so. If its true that most of Squad's devs are spread out all over the world, I'm sure they must be doing that job as a side gig, as they almost certainly wouldnt be able to live in a developed country making Mexican wages.

Wikipedia says the per capita GDP of Mexico is about $10K, and further, this is highly unequally distributed. Software devs might not make as much as they would in Silicon Valley, but I think they should still make a "developed-world" wage.

Quote

At the municipal level, economic disparities are even greater: Delegacion Benito Juarez in Mexico City has an HDI similar to that of Germany or New Zealand, whereas, Metlatonoc in Guerrero, would have an HDI similar to that of Malawi

 

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So much tinfoil hat, so little flying.

But in the mean while I saw saw Ariane 5 launch, and did 2 in KSP :)

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3 minutes ago, FullMetalMachinist said:

No offense, but even your TL;DR was too long, I didn't read it. 

It would have taken less time to read it than it did to quote, snip, and respond to it, I thinks.

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18 minutes ago, Alshain said:

NDA's are also don't apply to salaries or reasons for quitting FYI.  They only apply to intellectual property that has not been released or is "known" through other means.  For example, the former devs could discuss 1.2 all they want because we already know what it has and therefore doesn't qualify.

I went through this whole thing with a lawyer not to long ago when I signed for a severance package. (I'm actually under an NDA until March in fact)

Well, talk is cheap on the internet and all, but I *AM* a lawyer and what you wrote is at best over-generalized and at worst, completely wrong. Further, the laws governing such things can vary from US state to US state, let alone country to country. And the determination of which state or country's law applies is a matter of both contract between the parties as well as the laws of the jurisdictions in question. So you absolutely cannot say with certainty what the Departing Devs can or cannot talk about, nor for how long. 

tl;dr - nope, sorry. Not true.

OBLIGATORY DISCLAIMER: None of the above is to be construed as legal advice, and no attorney/client relationship is created or implied. Further, unless you live in my U.S. state, I am not admitted to practice law in your jurisdiction. Do not taunt Happy Fun Ball™ ... 

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1 minute ago, LameLefty said:

Do not taunt Happy Fun Ball™ ... 

But ... I want to ... so bad ...

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4 minutes ago, LameLefty said:

Do not taunt Happy Fun Ball™ ... 

 

2 minutes ago, regex said:

But ... I want to ... so bad ...

 

You are only allowed to give 25 likes per day. You cannot give any more likes today. ;.;

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Well me personally . . . if I sign an NDA then my policy is . . .

 

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tbh I think the devs who left probably just want a break from ksp for a while, they've put time and effort into something and may come back to it later! They deserve it and @SQUAD and our amazing moderator team (whom I shall simply call @Red Iron Crown cause writing one is tricky with limited internet!! I know you guys wouldn't bow to pressure from anyones agenda!!) should have our thanks for the work they do. Be cautious and hopeful. A lot of what I have been reading has being opinion and worries that hopefully the aforementioned squad can either lay to rest or explain why (as to play KSP I assume a certain level of comprehension!) 

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3 minutes ago, parameciumkid said:

OAH3yQW.png

Smokin'.

In two days we are almost half way to the same number of replies as the Hype thread in a month.

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I wonder when this thread became a parody of itself...

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Wow, I just saw this.  And from the very little I can find, this bodes very very poorly for KSP and Squad.

Will have to see what happens.  With 1.2.  What happens to the mods some of these guys provide.

But until I hear differently, I'm assuming the worst.

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17 minutes ago, Andem said:

I wonder when this thread became a parody of itself...

Probably right about here:

On 10/4/2016 at 6:09 PM, 5thHorseman said:

I'm surprised that this was posted on Reddit an hour ago and hasn't been reposted here yet.

submitted an hour ago by NathanKellRSS Dev/Former Dev

All good things must come to an end, and so it is for us. It is time for each of us to move on from Squad. Kerbal Space Program is an incredible game and has truly been a joy to create. We have greatly enjoyed working together with such a tightly-knit, professional, and talented development team, and with such a wonderful community. Over the last update cycle we’ve taken KSP to new heights and achieved great things with such a small team. We’ve finished work on update 1.2 and when Squad releases it, it will be a product of which we can be truly proud. We hope you share that opinion and we hope you enjoy playing it as much as we loved creating it.

Thank you all for the incredible community support. So long, and thanks for all the snacks!

Signed, in no particular order, your Kerbal developers Mike (Mu), Bill (Taniwha), Nathanael (NathanKell), Sébastien (Sarbian), Jim (Romfarer), Brian (Arsonide), Chris (Porkjet), Nathan (Claw)

 

Though TBH I didn't really expect it to go much different. People are mad and confused, along varying ranges of reasonableness. If anything I'm surprised the whole thing has been so civil.

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