[1.8 - 1.9.x] Nehemia Engineering Orbital Science (NEOS) (0.9.1)

[micha]

2 hours ago, Brigadier said:

 Have fun and I'm looking forward to a new release.

Cheers. Discovered while testing that I've partially broken Kemini during a recent refactor - it's just not visible because I also accidentally released with testing enabled lol.

As for KEES, it was always @N3h3mia's intention to remove the hard dependency on KIS. Not sure if there's some way I can use the new Surface Experiments from Breaking Ground to reimplement KEES.

 

[banditsan]

@micha Why this mod is so specific with kemini experiments? Just taking stock adds it just in 2 mods, skips mk1-3 and lander cans. Why  not use universal patch like this:

@PART[*]:HAS[@MODULE[ModuleCommand],#CrewCapacity[1]]:FINAL
{
	MODULE
	{
		name = Kemini_Module

		abbreviation = Kemini Science Experiment
		minimumCrew = 1

		NE_LabEquipmentSlot
		{
			type = KEMINI
		}
	}

	MODULE
	{
		name = ExperimentStorage
		identifier = Kemini 1
		chanceTexture = false
		type = KEMINI
	}
}
@PART[*]:HAS[@MODULE[ModuleCommand],#CrewCapacity[>2]]:FINAL
{
	MODULE
	{
		name = Kemini_Module

		abbreviation = Kemini Science Experiment
		minimumCrew = 1

		NE_LabEquipmentSlot
		{
			type = KEMINI
		}
	}

	MODULE
	{
		name = ExperimentStorage
		identifier = Kemini 1
		chanceTexture = false
		type = KEMINI
	}

	MODULE
	{
		name = ExperimentStorage
		identifier = Kemini 2
		chanceTexture = false
		type = KEMINI
	}
}

 

[micha]

11 hours ago, banditsan said:

@micha Why this mod is so specific with kemini experiments? Just taking stock adds it just in 2 mods, skips mk1-3 and lander cans. Why  not use universal patch like this:

Hi Banidtsan, and thanks for playing with NEOS

Feel free to mod it if you feel that's how it should work.  @N3h3mia's premise for Kemini was to be a set of experiments for the early space program mimicking the actual experiments performed during the US Gemini missions.  Thus it's restricted to 1-2 Kerbal orbital capsules.  To be completely true-to-form it would have to be restricted to 2-Kerbal capsules, but those weren't available in stock when this mod was first released, so it works with the Mercury-analogue capsules as well.

In fact there's some argument to restrict Kemini further to just Low and High space around Kerbin..  Or perhaps, open it up to more capsules once a certain level of the Space Centre has been upgraded. Hmm, something to consider.

Cheers,

 - Micha.

[Kaboose]

Hey @micha

I would totally love to add this mod to my current 1.8.1 save but I am not sure how well this will work given the KIS requirement. Just checking though is the latest release on Github (0.8.2) compliled with 1.8? Also, on Github is NEOS broken into its 3 main componenents? I noticed that OSS 0.8.2 is separate from NEOS so, can I run it without NEOS or KIS dependencies?

Cheers and thanks for your time.

[micha]

6 hours ago, Kaboose said:

Hey @micha

Hey @Kaboose,

Interestingly the last official release still works with KSP1.8+ despite being compiled for KSP1.7.  Just goes to show that things don't always need recompiling..  I have updated the projects, but then got stuck in some rework and haven't really had time to progress to making a release. I really need to set aside some time for this! At the very least making a beta release.

As for the GitHub downloads, yes, you can just download "OrbitalStationScience" which does not require KIS - only KEES does.  On GitHub the 3 main components are stand-alone, so people can mix-n-match.
I am considering splitting the mod up again into its 3 main components on CKAN too since Kemini and KEES are pretty much feature-complete and rarely need any updates, whereas OSS still has a lot of work in the pipeline.  N3h3mia did that before (on my suggestion) but because the plugin remained a shared component every change to the source code meant releasing an updated version of all the mods anyway. I'm now thinking of truly splitting them apart, even though it will mean some duplication of code between the 3 mods.

[Kaboose]

@micha

All good, thanks for the reply. I guess I can give KEES and OSS a try, I mean I already have KAS installed so KIS won't kill me if it means getting to do some interesting science 

[strudo76]

I'd really love to see this mod made compatible with the Kerbalism science system. I love these experiments, but I don' think they'd work properly given how Kerbalism changes science collection.

[micha]

3 hours ago, strudo76 said:

I'd really love to see this mod made compatible with the Kerbalism science system. I love these experiments, but I don' think they'd work properly given how Kerbalism changes science collection.

Send me a PR   As long as it doesn't break things for non-Kerbalism players I'll merge it in.

[strudo76]

2 hours ago, micha said:

Send me a PR   As long as it doesn't break things for non-Kerbalism players I'll merge it in.

Sadly my KSP modding skills wouldn't be up to the task. I thought I might have more time now we're in isolation, but I have to home school the kids. I thought that was going to be pretty straight forward, but turns out it's far more painful than I imagined.  

[Michel Bartolone]

I think I've got an interesting contract idea, or possibly a modification to an existing one. We get contracts (I think) for use of some of the experiments, like the ultrasound based experiments, I'd like to see one that has you look at 2, or 3 kerbals twice, with some defined period between them. For example, if I had to include the USU based experiments with a space camp, and to complete the contract, you have to run 2, or 3 kerbals (depending on the experiment) once within the first 10 days of space camp, and then those same kerbals again, within the last 10 days of the space camp. Get perhaps 1.5 or 2x what the experiment normally gets as far as  science points. Since we already get automatic NEOS alarms (if you're using the alarm clock mod), perhaps those could be used to tell a particular kerbal to report to the module with the USU installed for their second scan? The logic being you'd see the changes that being on orbit for a period of time causes.

 

[alien3109]

hi @micha does this work with KSP 1.9.x?? i love this mod and all the science that add to the game, it gives me a reason to have a kerbal up in orbit for more than a few hours.....

[Jansn67]

2 hours ago, alien3109 said:

hi @micha does this work with KSP 1.9.x?? i love this mod and all the science that add to the game, it gives me a reason to have a kerbal up in orbit for more than a few hours.....

1. rule: try it in a fresh install. (maybe in use of ckan.)
2. rule: if something seems work wrong, try to analyze it in debug-console (F12) and/or KSP.log.
3. rule: learn and try to fix with selfmade configs (important for keep modded ksp ongoing up and running)
4. rule: if an error seems to show "incompatible" with an individual ksp-installation, let the mod go.
5. rule: look to modders home page, how often and/or when they last visited.
6. rule: read through mod-threads, sure you will learn a lot about modding/patching/fixing ksp (can be annoying on long threads)
7. rule: google mods, (if avaiable) look to github, specially to issues, no neccessary to fringe modders if a "bug" is already announced
(IIf you know how to compile, try to do it for yourself, take care of licenses!!! if you want to publish)
8. rule: share your experiences in threads.
9. rule: good luck and have much fun.

Edited June 4, 2020 by Jansn67

[alien3109]

4 hours ago, Jansn67 said:

1. rule: try it in a fresh install. (maybe in use of ckan.)
2. rule: if something seems work wrong, try to analyze it in debug-console (F12) and/or KSP.log.
3. rule: learn and try to fix with selfmade configs (important for keep modded ksp ongoing up and running)
4. rule: if an error seems to show "incompatible" with an individual ksp-installation, let the mod go.
5. rule: look to modders home page, how often and/or when they last visited.
6. rule: read through mod-threads, sure you will learn a lot about modding/patching/fixing ksp (can be annoying on long threads)
7. rule: google mods, (if avaiable) look to github, specially to issues, no neccessary to fringe modders if a "bug" is already announced
(IIf you know how to compile, try to do it for yourself, take care of licenses!!! if you want to publish)
8. rule: share your experiences in threads.
9. rule: good luck and have much fun.

thanks for the recomendation....

as of KSP 1.9.1.2788, with making history and breacking ground (plus another 36 mods) seems to be working with no problem with the mod 0.8.2 version.

[micha]

Sorry for late reply, and yes, rather surprisingly, the current version still does work in 1.9.

I'm totally bogged down in an update; I probably should just recompile and re-release the current version for now since the update seems to be dragging on forever.

[alien3109]

1 hour ago, micha said:

Sorry for late reply, and yes, rather surprisingly, the current version still does work in 1.9.

I'm totally bogged down in an update; I probably should just recompile and re-release the current version for now since the update seems to be dragging on forever.

no problem, here is only 11:50pm so... thanks for the answer. Seems to work just fine and as expected.

[micha]

Just released 0.9.0.  Some minor bug fixes and official recompile for KSP1.9.1 (But _should_ still work from 1.8.x onwards).

My bigger changes will have to wait..  despite the current global situation I'm not really getting much time for KSP these days

[OrbitalManeuvers]

2 hours ago, micha said:

Just released 0.9.0. 

Thank you for working on this! Couple quick questions:

1. If I ignore the KIS requirement (i.e. I don't have it), should I also remove some parts of the mod, or will it fail gracefully? (Also, do you think Breaking Ground's inventory slots could be an alternative to the KIS functionality?)

2. Does this have usable experiments even in Science mode, or does it require career mode?

Thanks!

[Brigadier]

4 hours ago, micha said:

Just released 0.9.0.  Some minor bug fixes and official recompile for KSP1.9.1 (But _should_ still work from 1.8.x onwards).

Well, it's marked as 1.8.0-1.9.99 compatible in CKAN so I guess we're gonna find out :-).  Charge.... (in the cavalry sense, not the battery sense )

4 hours ago, micha said:

My bigger changes will have to wait.. 

Do what what fits in your schedule.  That's all we can ask.  It's been great so far.

2 hours ago, OrbitalManeuvers said:

Thank you for working on this! Couple quick questions:

1. If I ignore the KIS requirement (i.e. I don't have it), should I also remove some parts of the mod, or will it fail gracefully? (Also, do you think Breaking Ground's inventory slots could be an alternative to the KIS functionality?)

2. Does this have usable experiments even in Science mode, or does it require career mode?

Thanks!

BG's slots cannot replace KIS functionality.  The dev of KIS said he tried but it's a limitation of KSP at the moment.

AFAIK, science is science.  I don't believe, you need a contract to perform it.  Create Science mode game for testing and use Hyperedit or the in-game cheat to orbit to put a test craft into orbit and run the experiment.

[Clamp-o-Tron]

Yay! An update! Thanks @micha for the great work.

[micha]

5 hours ago, Brigadier said:

BG's slots cannot replace KIS functionality.  The dev of KIS said he tried but it's a limitation of KSP at the moment.

Ah, interesting. It's been on my "todo" list to investigate. Then again, KEES is much simpler overall to general KIS construction, so I might have a play with it regardless.  The other thing is that KIS is free whereas people would have to buy Breaking Ground.

8 hours ago, OrbitalManeuvers said:

1. If I ignore the KIS requirement (i.e. I don't have it), should I also remove some parts of the mod, or will it fail gracefully? (Also, do you think Breaking Ground's inventory slots could be an alternative to the KIS functionality?)

It _should_ fail gracefully.  The KEES experiments will not be available. (For BG, see my reply to Brigadier)

8 hours ago, OrbitalManeuvers said:

2. Does this have usable experiments even in Science mode, or does it require career mode?

Experiments should work fine in Science mode, although most of my testing is done in Career.

[Cheesecake]

I have problems with the Kemini-experiments and Kerbalism. The Experiments works but at the end when I complete the experiment I can only choose between "send" and "hold". There are Antennas and a slot for samples. But I can`t find the samples/data there.

Newest Kerbalism and NEOS, KSP 1.8.1

[micha]

14 minutes ago, Cheesecake said:

I have problems with the Kemini-experiments and Kerbalism. The Experiments works but at the end when I complete the experiment I can only choose between "send" and "hold". There are Antennas and a slot for samples. But I can`t find the samples/data there.

Newest Kerbalism and NEOS, KSP 1.8.1

I'm really sorry, I've never tried Kerbalism before. My understanding is that it overrides the way science works, or at least how it is collected, and NEOS does major changes to the way science is handled, so I'm guessing any interoperability is going to be somewhat fragile. I thought the new Kerbalism basically just exempted all NEOS experiments from its own handling. I don't know what you mean by "slots for samples" - if that is a Kerbalism thing, then it most definitely will not work with Kemini experiments.
 

[alien3109]

On 6/7/2020 at 9:55 AM, micha said:

Just released 0.9.0.  Some minor bug fixes and official recompile for KSP1.9.1 (But _should_ still work from 1.8.x onwards).

My bigger changes will have to wait..  despite the current global situation I'm not really getting much time for KSP these days

THANKS!!!!!! I love this mod and I cannot pllay KSP in career without it.... (it gives me a meaning to stay in orbit with my ships for longer than 5 sec after getting into orbit.... :p)

[OrbitalManeuvers]

@micha Just getting started checking this out, but thought I'd mention a couple other command pods that you may or may not be interested in supporting ...

The Bumblebee is unmanned ... not sure if that's pertinent or not.

[KSPrynk]

I'm surprised I hadn't looked into this mod until just recently.  It really gives some incentive to maintain space stations and gives small capsules something to do other than bring Kerbals up and down.

That said, is there a reason that the Material Exposure Platform is a whopping 8 tons when the Kolumbus, nearly three times its size, is only 3 tons (comparable to Stock MPL)?  Did a decimal point get lost, because 0.8 tons makes more sense.

Also, what is the difference between the KEES POSA I and II, aside from the massive amount of science the POSA II can collect?  Except for being a level higher in the tech tree, it has pretty much the same physical and monetary costs.