micha

[1.8 - 1.9.x] Nehemia Engineering Orbital Science (NEOS) (0.9.1)

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Just a heads-up in case it's an issue, but I had a bit of trouble earlier with KEES contracts not registering the return and recover experiment objective (the actual test in orbit ran fine and that objective worked with no issue). I used the POSA1. Might've used one of the other modules too, but definitely tried a few times with POSA1. Didn't have a lot of time to mess around with it too much, but I'll give it another go next time I'm on KSP on my home PC and see if it's still acting up and share logs. Worked fine for me in 1.4.5 with previous update of NEOS (updated both KSP to 1.5.1.2335 and NEOS to 0.8.0 since last successful KEES contract which I did a few days back). Normally play with a heap of mods, but in trying to figure out the issue I cut it down to only the mods needed to reload saves in that run—Kerbalism, K2 Command Pod, KerbalEngineer, KIS, KAS, and of course NEOS.

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11 hours ago, TeddyBearBonfire said:

... KEES contracts not registering the return and recover experiment objective ...

Argh! Not this bug -again-. :(  I haven't changed -anything- which could have affected this...


But could people PLEASE provide log-files and -ideally- a savegame (with minimal other mods) which can repro any issue. I don't really have enough spare time these days to investigate bug reports without more information. Sorry..

EDIT: Ps. @TeddyBearBonfireI know you said you didn't have so much time and will send logs later; thank you very much for if/when you do. Quick question : do you know the version of KIS you are using?

Edited by micha

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thanks for the time you do spend keeping it going man. 

this station science and surface experiments are really great and for me give space stations a purpose. 

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Hmm, nevermind, NEOS itself isn't the issue. It seems it's an interaction with Kerbalism after all. I tried it with only NEOS, KAS, and KIS, and it worked fine, added back in Kerbalism and it worked in a save with the test already completed prior to reintroducing Kerbalism, with just reentry to go, but didn't work on a save where the test was still to be performed with Kerbalism. I wonder if it's because of the way Kerbalism stores science—since in the save with the test already completed I'd presume the data is stored the normal vanilla way, but the save where the test still had to be performed with Kerbalism would inevitably go through Kerbalism's data storage system (very much a layman's guess ;) ).

I suppose that's just what happens dipping my toes into various different mods ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Can just console complete anyway. Sorry for the false alarm! :P Keep up the good work

 

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3 hours ago, TeddyBearBonfire said:

Hmm, nevermind, NEOS itself isn't the issue. It seems it's an interaction with Kerbalism after all.

Thanks for testing and the update.  I'll add a note on the front page for now. I haven't used Kerbalism before so have no idea what that mod's about, but perhaps the mod author and I can figure out a fix.

PS. If you have the save-game, can you please either send it to me, or to the author of Kerbalism? He requests a reproducible scenario on his front-page.

Edited by micha

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Oh nice, didn't think you'd be fussed about intermod compatibility—that's cool. I made a bunch of saves while messing with it. I tried with POSA1, with PPMD, and just out of curiosity I tried the Kemini (not KEES) TEST experiment too. Kemini's TEST works fine, but neither KEES completes if Kerbalism was installed while the experiment was done.

I have a bunch of saves, just threw them all in a RAR for your flexibility. Will have to explain a little though: Saves titled KEES TEST are testing POSA1 in particular. All saves made with Kerbalism installed are simply numbered, i.e. KEES TEST 1, PPMD TEST 2, etc. Any save made without Kerbalism installed is numbered V1, or V2 (V for vanilla, even though it's not strictly vanilla—minimal mods essentially, just NEOS essentials)

Otherwise, they are what they say they are—KEMINI TEST is specifically the Kemini module called TEST, and PPMD is me going for another KEES test just to see if it was specific to POSA1, which it's not. I saved at frequent intervals from contract acceptance to touchdown immediately prior to recovery. If Kerbalism is installed when the experiment results are finalised, the 2nd objective will not complete on recovery. If Kerbalism is not installed at the point when the experiment is finalised, the 2nd objective will complete on recovery, even if Kerbalism is reinstalled between those two points. I've repeated this a few times now and those results come as I predict every time.

Most of the saves were just to cover all bases and help me pinpoint where the change seems to happen, have a look at these particular saves:

  • KEES TEST 8 SPLASHDOWN—POSA1 done with Kerbalism, should result in incomplete objective, whether you have Kerbalism at this point or not.
  • KEES TEST V2 SPLASHDOWN—POSA1 done without Kerbalism, should result in completion, whether you have Kerbalism at this point or not.
  • KEES TEST 6 ORBIT PRE-FINALIZE—this is the branching point, if you want to try for yourself with and without Kerbalism. This will load as POSA1 has filled its timer and just needs to be finished.

 

  • PPMD TEST 4 TOUCHDOWN—PPMD done with Kerbalism, should result in incomplete objective, whether you have Kerbalism at this point or not.
  • PPMD TEST V2 TOUCHDOWN—PPMD done without Kerbalism, should result in completion, whether you have Kerbalism at this point or not.
  • PPMD TEST 2 PRE-FINALIZE—As above, the branching point but for PPMD instead.

 

I also included my Kemini TEST run, but since it worked fine with Kerbalism I don't know if it'll be of any value. There are no non-Kerbalism saves with that one since it worked.

 

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1HbB1qvgY-Gqp9c-ZNj6ojx9J5rJavtJr

Does the log flush itself out with every session of the game btw? I've not used it before, I was going to share it but I think I've lost the log for those sessions I just did because of restarting KSP a few times. If the saves aren't enough on their own I'll see about reproducing those runs to get the log—it's the file named KSP in the parent installation folder, right?

Anyway, hopefully that's useful, cheers. :) 

Edited by TeddyBearBonfire

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yeah the log starts over everytime.

you may find it in windows/system32/gamedata thats where mine winds up at. 

but its ksp.log

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1 hour ago, TeddyBearBonfire said:

Oh nice, didn't think you'd be fussed about intermod compatibility—that's cool. I made a bunch of saves while messing with it.

That's awesome, thanks so much!  And no, should be fine without logs. (In my case, the logs end up in the same directory as the KSP.exe; I guess it depends on how you install the game).

I've got a pretty good idea of what's going on based on Kerbalism's abstract. It appears to gather all science data into its own module, which, of course, will break NEOS experiments, since the special thing about them is that the science must stay attached to the experiment part in order to be returned to Kerbin for the contracts. So I guess we'll have to try to get Kerbalism to exempt (some of) the NEOS experiments from this behaviour. Or change the way NEOS contracts work with Kerbalism installed.`

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Oh, is that what's going on? I was wondering about that, so the science never actually goes back into the pod but stays attached to the part itself (I was wondering why I couldn't review it in the pod like other science). And that would explain why Kemini contracts still work—because it's not designed to stay attached to any particular part? Or am I going down the wrong direction? I just want to satisfy my curiosity by this point :P

Edited by TeddyBearBonfire

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16 minutes ago, TeddyBearBonfire said:

Oh, is that what's going on? I was wondering about that, so the science never actually goes back into the pod but stays attached to the part itself (I was wondering why I couldn't review it in the pod like other science). And that would explain why Kemini contracts still work—because it's not designed to stay attached to any particular part? Or am I going down the wrong direction? I just want to satisfy my curiosity by this point :P

Yeah pretty much. Kemini and OMS experiments also have special handling compared to stock experiments, but don't use KIS.  Nehemiah did some rather clever stuff, but unfortunately it doesn't mesh 100% with the stock way of handling experiments. So if there's other mods which also mess with the way experiments are handled it sometimes goes a bit pearshaped.

10 minutes ago, Gordon Dry said:

Eh, you were too fast ;)https://github.com/steamp0rt/Kerbalism/issues/249

Edited by micha

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Just thinking, it might make sense to only have missions generate for Kerbin orbit for these. These experiments only have one set of science defs, and it's hard to see why'd they yield different results in different places.

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1 minute ago, dlrk said:

Just thinking, it might make sense to only have missions generate for Kerbin orbit for these. These experiments only have one set of science defs, and it's hard to see why'd they yield different results in different places.

Well, historically for sure these experiments were only run around Earth. And only by very specific craft. ie, Kemini is Gemini, but without mods or MakingHistory, KSP doesn't even have a Gemini capsule; KEES experiments have their origins from the Mir EEP so soviet station experiments. 

But as for your point, agreed, some of these experiments are unlikely to give other results elsewhere, but conversely a lot are location-specific.  And even replicating the same results in a different environment is scientifically interesting.

 

I'm open to people submitting alternate result strings :)
 

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Hi Micha

I've had a bit of an idea, but I have not much clue as how to implement it. Since this mod already does something similar, I though it might be something you'd be interested in looking at. or maybe giving me a hand with if I decide to take it on myself.

First stage is I'd like to make some of the bigger vanilla science experiments take time, like the Kemini and KEES do. Things like the Goo and the Materials Bay. How easy/hard would that be to implement?

Second stage is I'd like to add completion times to other things, and things from other mods. Things like attaching things using KAS, and merging components using the construction docking ports from MKS. I understand that might require a better knowledge of how those other mods operate (or even require some liaising with those mod's authors to work support in).

I just feel there is scope to make things take longer where they should be a complex job, rather than the instant result that is more common throughout the game.

Thoughts? I can put together MM patches pretty easily. I do some programming in VB.NET, but have never really grasped the C based languages.

Thanks

Simon

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2 hours ago, strudo76 said:

First stage is I'd like to make some of the bigger vanilla science experiments take time, like the Kemini and KEES do. Things like the Goo and the Materials Bay. How easy/hard would that be to implement?

Hi Simon,

I'm guessing you could modify the Goo part configuration (MM patch would do), remove the "ModuleScienceExperiment" and replace it with a suitably-coded-up module (either derived from, or inspired by, "OMSExperiment") which in turn derives from "ModuleScienceExperiment".  However I haven't figured out yet how to hook into some of the stock GUI yet, such as the "Reset" button on the science popup.  Regardless you'd need to code up some sort of "ModuleScienceDurationExperiment" to do the actual work.

So while you might be able to add things like multiple steps and/or time to run, to the Goo, you'd lose some of the other stock features unless you can figure those bits out.

 

2 hours ago, strudo76 said:

Second stage is I'd like to add completion times to other things, and things from other mods. Things like attaching things using KAS, and merging components using the construction docking ports from MKS. I understand that might require a better knowledge of how those other mods operate (or even require some liaising with those mod's authors to work support in).

That I have no idea about, sorry.

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2 hours ago, dlrk said:

Do the station experiments take time on-orbit?

The NEOS ones do, yes. Station Science is another mod which adds complex experiments to stations and they also take time to complete.

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Was trying to find the Kemini experiments since I got contracts for them, but they aren't showing up in the Editor. Upon investigation I see that ALL the Kemini experiments have the Category set to "none", which prevents them from being shown:

D5.cfg:         category = none
D7.cfg:         category = none
D8.cfg:         category = none
D10.cfg:        category = none
MSC3.cfg:       category = none
TEST.cfg:       category = none

Is this intended?

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1 hour ago, linuxgurugamer said:

Was trying to find the Kemini experiments since I got contracts for them, but they aren't showing up in the Editor. Upon investigation I see that ALL the Kemini experiments have the Category set to "none", which prevents them from being shown:


D5.cfg:         category = none
D7.cfg:         category = none
D8.cfg:         category = none
D10.cfg:        category = none
MSC3.cfg:       category = none
TEST.cfg:       category = none

Is this intended?

From memory, Kemini experiments get loaded in the VAB into slots in command modules via a right click interface. They aren't parts you drag and drop in the VAB

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(these line got deleted)

I was coming back to mention that I was wrong.

However, once stream viewers got me straightened out, I then realized that something else was odd.  I understand that these experiments are intended to replicate the real-world experiments done in Mercury and Gemini, but it doesn't make sense that he includes a patch for only a few 1 and 2 person command pods.  There are a lot of other mods which have 1 & 2 person command pods, so I wrote the following patch to add the experiments to all 1 and 2 person command pods.  It's not too efficient, and I wrote it with the idea of not deleting the current patches, which is why there are three lines deleting the existing modules.  If this patch were to be included in the mod (giving my permission now for that to be done), then those three lines can be deleted along with the existing individual patch files in the mod

// Adds the Kemini_Module to all command pods with crew capacity of one or two
@PART[*]:HAS[@MODULE[ModuleCommand],#CrewCapacity[>0],#CrewCapacity[<3]]:NEEDS[NehemiahInc]:AFTER[NehemiahInc]
{
	// First delete any existing modules, then add them back for all
	-MODULE[Kemini_Module] {}
	-MODULE[ExperimentStorage] {}
	-MODULE[ExperimentStorage] {}
	
	MODULE
	{
		name = Kemini_Module

		abbreviation = Kemini Science Experiment
		minimumCrew = 1

		NE_LabEquipmentSlot
		{
			type = KEMINI
		}
	}
}

@PART[*]:HAS[@MODULE[ModuleCommand],#CrewCapacity[1]]:NEEDS[NehemiahInc]:AFTER[NehemiahInc]
{
	MODULE
	{
		name = ExperimentStorage
		identifier = Kemini 1
		chanceTexture = false
		type = KEMINI
	}
}
@PART[*]:HAS[@MODULE[ModuleCommand],#CrewCapacity[2]]:NEEDS[NehemiahInc]:AFTER[NehemiahInc]
{
	MODULE
	{
		name = ExperimentStorage
		identifier = Kemini 1
		chanceTexture = false
		type = KEMINI

	MODULE
	{
		name = ExperimentStorage
		identifier = Kemini 2
		chanceTexture = false
		type = KEMINI
	}
}

 

Edited by linuxgurugamer

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Play with this mod for a long time. On experiments Kemini and KEES no questions and no problems. Everything works fine. Contracts to hold them in my career were regularly received, not only in the orbit of Kerbin, but also in the orbit of Mun and Minmus.

But there is a question on experiments of OMS and KLS. I now have in orbit Kerbin modular station type Russian orbital station MIR. It consists of three modules with laboratories MEP-825, ML-600 and MSL-1000. Cargo ships delivered equipment for these modules and installed in the appropriate laboratory. Thus, all three laboratories are ready to conduct experiments. However, I do not have a single contract to conduct experiments in these laboratories. As a test, the CCF experiment was launched. Everything went well, the experiment was conducted, completed and successfully returned to KSC. Accrued points for this science is obtained. So everything works as intended. But there are no contracts. 

I also use the Contract Configurator mod. But as far as I know, it has nothing to do with the mod NEOS. What could be the reason and is it possible to fix it?

6 hours ago, linuxgurugamer said:

Was trying to find the Kemini experiments since I got contracts for them, but they aren't showing up in the Editor. Upon investigation I see that ALL the Kemini experiments have the Category set to "none", which prevents them from being shown:

I don't know what your problem is, but I have Kemini experiments appearing in all command pod stock games and other mods, like from Nertea.

 

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16 minutes ago, Sokol_323 said:

Play with this mod for a long time. On experiments Kemini and KEES no questions and no problems. Everything works fine. Contracts to hold them in my career were regularly received, not only in the orbit of Kerbin, but also in the orbit of Mun and Minmus.

But there is a question on experiments of OMS and KLS. I now have in orbit Kerbin modular station type Russian orbital station MIR. It consists of three modules with laboratories MEP-825, ML-600 and MSL-1000. Cargo ships delivered equipment for these modules and installed in the appropriate laboratory. Thus, all three laboratories are ready to conduct experiments. However, I do not have a single contract to conduct experiments in these laboratories. As a test, the CCF experiment was launched. Everything went well, the experiment was conducted, completed and successfully returned to KSC. Accrued points for this science is obtained. So everything works as intended. But there are no contracts. 

I also use the Contract Configurator mod. But as far as I know, it has nothing to do with the mod NEOS. What could be the reason and is it possible to fix it?

I don't know what your problem is, but I have Kemini experiments appearing in all command pod stock games and other mods, like from Nertea.

  

Late at night, when I updated my previous message, some lines got deleted.  I was made aware of this by some viewers in my stream, go back and read the previous message before yours, I've updated it

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Thanks @linuxgurugamer for your Kemini patch.  The simple reason why "he" didn't add patches for -all- 1 and 2 Kerbal pods is that "he" doesn't play with every mod ever made. Most patches are from people contributing as and when they play with Kemini and the pods they like to play with don't have out-of-the-box support for Kemini.  It's also rather trivial to add (simply copy existing pod patch and modify to suit).

One reason speaking against a generic patch (which I'd considered in the past) is that there's also a couple of pods where it doesn't make much sense (for example, in HGR, the Soyuz-style pods consist of orbital and re-entry modules; having Kemini experiments added to both is odd).

So I'm undecided whether to add the blanket Kemini-for-all config. Could always write Remove-Kemini scripts for any pods which shouldn't have it, but that's just the flip-side of the argument.

----

@Sokol_323 Thanks for the report. Offhand I'm not actually sure whether there's a missions-generator for the "big" experiments yet.  I've got a couple of long-distance flights coming up so I should get some time to take a look then.

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4 minutes ago, micha said:

One reason speaking against a generic patch (which I'd considered in the past) is that there's also a couple of pods where it doesn't make much sense (for example, in HGR, the Soyuz-style pods consist of orbital and re-entry modules; having Kemini experiments added to both is odd).

Are both command modules?  Even if you had to add a small patch to fix that, it's more efficient to have one patch to remove the modules from an extra part than to create patches for all small command pods.

One thing I didn't think about was the Mk1 & Mk2 cockpits, which are designed for airplanes rather than spaceflight.

Either way, your decision, but could you include it as an optional patch (use PatchManager for that) if you don't incorporate it directly?

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On 12/10/2018 at 4:49 PM, linuxgurugamer said:

Late at night, when I updated my previous message, some lines got deleted.  I was made aware of this by some viewers in my stream, go back and read the previous message before yours, I've updated it

 

When I answered your post, there were only lines for your patch. Without comments to them. Since I don't speak English fluently, I guess I didn't quite understand what I was talking about. Sorry.

On 12/10/2018 at 5:20 PM, micha said:

@Sokol_323 Thanks for the report. Offhand I'm not actually sure whether there's a missions-generator for the "big" experiments yet.  I've got a couple of long-distance flights coming up so I should get some time to take a look then.

I just started the game and looked at the Contract Configurator settings. It turns out in this fashion, you can choose which contracts from the NEOS it will configure. And there is KEMINI and KEES but no OMS and KLS. Maybe that's the reason. But why is this happening I do not understand.

Edited by Sokol_323

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