Mycroft

What Facts Do We Know About The Devs Leaving?

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20 minutes ago, Nils277 said:

-snip-

wanting to post my 2 cents( or less). like what has nils said. you cannot squeeze a game for cash. It will eventually die out like a cow. when you milk it for too long.. milk does not not come out anymore. so it may seems that ksp has reached this breaking point. where there is nothing more a dev can add and the hype train just falls.

and also kiwi. can you try not to be so rude? thanks people will appreciate it :)

Edited by Joshwoo70
typos cause yay!

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38 minutes ago, kiwi1960 said:

One point to what you said, is it any of our business as to what is going on in squad... do we own shares in the company?

no.

We've been through this whole protest at least twice now, and the last time, I had to put this idiotic "we don't have a share in SQUAD so we have no business discussing this" thing out of our misery, and frankly, I'm sick and tired of people resurrecting this dead horse! But, clearly, killing it twice is not enough, so here goes another one. Just like a zombie apocalypse :D. Third time's a charm, they say.

The basic principles of free speech dictate that people have the right to say whatever the heck they want, without fear. All posters in this thread are well within their rights to say whatever they want. That doesn't make the statements correct or the demands legitimate by default. So people can ask whatever they want, and nobody has the right to stop them. (But oh how I wish I did sometimes). 

On the other hand, SQUAD is not required to answer their clamoring, no matter how loud they get. Honestly, it's very likely to be the wisest choice, as no matter what they say, people are certain to find a negative way to interpret it. You would not believe how hard people cling to their rumors, no matter what anybody says. 

Short version: Both parties are well within their rights. You are not. Ironic, isn't it? Weren't you just accusing a bunch of people of exceeding the limits of their rights? And as you probably noticed, I'm a bit annoyed that I have to kill this dead horse again. And yeah, I know, I shouldn't be. I'll calm down soon enough. 

38 minutes ago, kiwi1960 said:

I accept that there is much more going on than we have been told, but ... a witch hunt... will have the opposite effect of giving us answers. That is why its not good for anyone.

So why are you perpetuating it? No offense, but honestly, your post only serves to stir the coals of an already dying fire. If you had left well enough alone, the fire would not be this hot now. Controversy, rumors, and wild speculation are already dying down. The fewer who post, the fewer who perpetuate the situation. Please, just let this controversy die, and once it is good and dead, SQUAD will then feel freer to provide answers. 

Sigh. Okay. I got it outta my system. Please do not make me kill this thing again. I agree with the moderators. This thing is blown way out of proportion, and the best thing to do is let it blow over. 

My sincere apologies if I offended anyone.

Also, please keep in mind the original intention of this thread, as stated in the OP.

Edited by Mycroft

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1 hour ago, Nils277 said:

Really wanted to stay of of this whole witch-hunt (thanks you @kiwi1960 for this more than fitting description) but i can't get around also giving my two cents about this:

Yes, it also hit me by surprise that so many devs left a mere week before the big 1.2 release. At first i thought that this was really a sudden decision but looking back at the DevNotes since 1.0 had some signs of this to happen. I talk about two things:

  1.  I read multiple times that they are working on documenting the internal code. As a developer myself i can assure you that this is considered to be quite the opposite of fun for most of us. And extending the documentation in a big way can be a sign that the software is planned to be handed to another developer. The documentation should help the next dev to understand the code faster and to prevent bugs from only partially understanding it.
  2. They did a massive clean up of the deprecated and unused classes and functions. Yes, this does also kinda speed up the game but is also often done before handing the code over to another developer. This makes it easier to understand what is going on and prevent the next dev to accidentally use the old code and cause a huge mess. Personally i also clean up some code before handing it over because i consider some part of the old code as dirty and don't want others to see it.

I believe that (as already said) some of the devs were contracted only for the release of 1.2. And that the employed long term devs decided to also leave Squad after 1.2 together with the contracted ones because 1.2 will be the closest they believe KSP will ever be to their vision of it. 

At a last note: That the development of KSP can't continue forever as it did until now should be obvious to everyone. You have to generate money from a product when you want to pay the people working on it. When this is not the case anymore you either have to stop the development or find new ways to generate money with it.

I am out of likes for today, so I would like to express my thanks for this post this way!

Hear, hear! :)

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21 hours ago, Mycroft said:

We've been through this whole protest at least twice now, and the last time, I had to put this idiotic "we don't have a share in SQUAD so we have no business discussing this" thing out of our misery, and frankly, I'm sick and tired of people resurrecting this dead horse! But, clearly, killing it twice is not enough, so here goes another one. Just like a zombie apocalypse :D. Third time's a charm, they say.

The basic principles of free speech dictate that people have the right to say whatever the heck they want, without fear. All posters in this thread are well within their rights to say whatever they want. That doesn't make the statements correct or the demands legitimate by default. So people can ask whatever they want, and nobody has the right to stop them. (But oh how I wish I did sometimes). 

On the other hand, SQUAD is not required to answer their clamoring, no matter how loud they get. Honestly, it's very likely to be the wisest choice, as no matter what they say, people are certain to find a negative way to interpret it. You would not believe how hard people cling to their rumors, no matter what anybody says. 

Short version: Both parties are well within their rights. You are not. Ironic, isn't it? Weren't you just accusing a bunch of people of exceeding the limits of their rights? And as you probably noticed, I'm a bit annoyed that I have to kill this dead horse again. And yeah, I know, I shouldn't be. I'll calm down soon enough. 

So why are you perpetuating it? No offense, but honestly, your post only serves to stir the coals of an already dying fire. If you had left well enough alone, the fire would not be this hot now. Controversy, rumors, and wild speculation are already dying down. The fewer who post, the fewer who perpetuate the situation. Please, just let this controversy die, and once it is good and dead, SQUAD will then feel freer to provide answers. 

Sigh. Okay. I got it outta my system. Please do not make me kill this thing again. I agree with the moderators. This thing is blown way out of proportion, and the best thing to do is let it blow over. 

My sincere apologies if I offended anyone.

Also, please keep in mind the original intention of this thread, as stated in the OP.

Why am I perpetuating it???? SERIOUSLY.... **YOU STARTED THIS** ... not me... and you NOW agree with the moderators?????

Wow.... a cop out if I ever heard it. You started the thread, you could say SORRY and ask for it to be locked....

But to blame others for something you started.... seriously.... low....

 

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First of all, I've only read the first four pages and the last two of this thread.

It is clear that the creator of this thread had no incling of the emotions it would summon. Some of the comments i've read were really appalling. I can understand that emotions run high but please, (self-)moderate the tone and contents of the comments in such a way that you wouldn't be offended by it if someone else would comment it on/about you. Remember that bickering is as pointless as wild speculations. It only leads to resentment. Try to keep in mind that the game is fun. The forum is a place to share the fun, not a place to vent personal beliefs and/or frustrations.

By the way, don't call me a Squad puppet as well. I haven't even had a job offer yet. :wink:

 

 

 

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27 minutes ago, TheCardinal said:

First of all, I've only read the first four pages and the last two of this thread.

It is clear that the creator of this thread had no incling of the emotions it would summon. Some of the comments i've read were really appalling. I can understand that emotions run high but please, (self-)moderate the tone and contents of the comments in such a way that you wouldn't be offended by it if someone else would comment it on/about you. Remember that bickering is as pointless as wild speculations. It only leads to resentment. Try to keep in mind that the game is fun. The forum is a place to share the fun, not a place to vent personal beliefs and/or frustrations.

By the way, don't call me a Squad puppet as well. I haven't even had a job offer yet. :wink:

Its easy to forget that the age of forum members is not always immediately obvious, and that there is likely a fairly wide range.

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First of all: @TheCardinal: YOU ARE A SQUAD PUPPET! :wink:

I know that it might seem a little bit off topic but is anybody here aware of who is Johnny Turbo?

Yesterday I made up my mind, thinking that it was better to simply move on and wait for my Football Manager yearly dose to settle my pain.

Then I thought to myself "well then, a whole team moving... What would you do if you are ManU and Leicester won the league last year?"

I would hire them all off course.

 

Could this just be a sign that "Somebody" is starting to work on a new project based on KSP experience? 

Could this hypotetical project be KSP 2.0?

Could FTE be that company and Johnny Turbo be that "somebody"?

They already state on their site that they are currently "co-developing" KSP 1.1 ("Turbo" charged, of course).

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16 hours ago, nestor said:

I was great working with all of them

Very modest of you, hehe

EDIT : Ooh, just read some of the thread. Not too good there people, could have been nicer.

@RoverDude have some time with your family, thanks for working on the game I like to play. Hopefully you have not been put off from doing so by the way people have treated you.

Edited by John FX

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11 hours ago, Andem said:

Well not all of his assertions stood up to scrutiny, and neither did *heaves* Freud's.They still brought a lot of important... ah, developments to the table. After all, Albert Einstein rejected many notions about quantum mechanics because it implied things that didn't fit into his world view. Everyone has there hits and there misses. :P

The old saying theres an exception to every rule, but i have to say i love tinterweb arguments! no heard feelings to anyone just fun to rage for a while, and if your like me and read up to make sure your rite you always end up on an interesting but completly unrelated wikipedia page!

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12 minutes ago, Space Kadet said:

The old saying theres an exception to every rule, but i have to say i love tinterweb arguments! no heard feelings to anyone just fun to rage for a while, and if your like me and read up to make sure your rite you always end up on an interesting but completly unrelated wikipedia page!

I gotta say, once a thread devolves into quoting research papers on psychology and reaches a critical mass of "logical fallacy" invocations, with bonus points for using latin names (I lost count of how many times "straw man" was used, ironically, often as a straw man.), then it really is time for the thread to /thread.

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5 minutes ago, p1t1o said:

I gotta say, once a thread devolves into quoting research papers on psychology and reaches a critical mass of "logical fallacy" invocations, with bonus points for using latin names (I lost count of how many times "straw man" was used, ironically, often as a straw man.), then it really is time for the thread to /thread.

Meh, the Illuminati and the Freemasons haven't been brought in... yet!

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7 minutes ago, Kerbart said:

Meh, the Illuminati and the Freemasons haven't been brought in... yet!

For that matter I haven't seen Godwin's law invoked either. Although to be honest, you don't see many Hitler references on this forum. 

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6 hours ago, J.Random said:

Funny you should say this. What happened to the "all critics are haters with pitchforks" and "stop the negativity or else" general attitude back from 4 months ago? =)

That happens with every bit of news around here, in my experience. Some call the critics "haters with pitchforks" while others call those with positive views "fanboys", and IMO one group isn't larger than the other but many seem to feel the opposing camp characterizes the forum as a whole. Frankly I find it distasteful, it's argumentum ad hominem and doesn't really add anything to the discussion. I don't recall any "stop the negativity or else", though.

Apologies to @p1t1o for adding more Latin.

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9 minutes ago, MaxPeck said:

For that matter I haven't seen Godwin's law invoked either. Although to be honest, you don't see many Hitler references on this forum. 

I've seen a few rule 34s being thrown around, but honestly I dont see where pornography comes into the discussion.

Yes I know its forumrule 3.4 : )

 

*edit*

2 minutes ago, Red Iron Crown said:

...argumentum ad hominem - Latin.

Aaaah! Aaaah! What are you doing to me!? Strawman! STRAWMAN!! HITLEEEEEER!!

 

Edited by p1t1o

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17 minutes ago, J.Random said:

I don't see how this unit of measurement is relevant here.

We all know you completed the Kessel run in less than 12 Hitlers, but there's no need to elbow it into conversation like that.

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They left. They are gone. I don't care why.

Would my caring change the situation in a way that is better for me? No.

If they wanted me to know, I'm sure I would have had a message or read about it in the forums. I didn't.

Not my problem. Not my concern. Let's move on.

 

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32 minutes ago, Daveroski said:

They left. They are gone. I don't care why.

Would my caring change the situation in a way that is better for me? No.

If they wanted me to know, I'm sure I would have had a message or read about it in the forums. I didn't.

Not my problem. Not my concern. Let's move on.

 

Agreed.

nie mój cyrk, nie moje małpy - translates from Polish to, "Not my circus, not my monkeys"

My boss uses this a lot, and even has a sign posted in the studio.

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6 hours ago, Mycroft said:

The basic principles of free speech dictate that people have the right to say whatever the heck they want, without fear. All posters in this thread are well within their rights to say whatever they want. ... So people can ask whatever they want, and nobody has the right to stop them.

Free speech doesn't really apply here.  Squad's forum, Squad calls the shots of what can be discussed here.  "Free speech" only means you're not going to get arrested or fined by the government for saying something.  It does not mean that everyone has to provide you with a platform to say it.  Note that there are bans on what can be posted, like asking for release dates, profanity filters, rules on adult content.  These are all limits on speech, enforced by those who run the forum.

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4 minutes ago, MaxxQ said:

Agreed.

nie mój cyrk, nie moje małpy - translates from Polish to, "Not my circus, not my monkeys"

My boss uses this a lot, and even has a sign posted in the studio.

I tried that at my office.

But my team protested loudly, and even started to throw "stuff" at me.

They demanded to be referred to as 'apes'.

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*Looks at thread up and down*

Storm, meet teacup!

Unless they were shackling their workers to stocks and throwing tomatos at them, then there really is not much to get het up over. In business, people come, people go. The game goes on.

When an MMO comes out, there's a lot of people leave straight away, because the game is -complete-. The same goes for most offline games too to some degree. After 1.0, the game migrated to Unity 5, which was a big push post-release of a game, so i imagine the devs needed all hands on deck still. Now 1.2 is coming out and most of the game is complete, the ship doesn't need as many hands. Conspiracy theorists looking to blow this out of proportion really need to step back and take a breath. Even if things werent all rosy behind closed doors, well, again, that happens in business, too. Does it make Squad the devil? Nope. Does it make it worse - does it make them EA? Hell no.

2 weeks time no one will give a rats hairy behind about any of this. It's forum rage for forum rage's sake.

Edited by Stevie_D

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3 hours ago, p1t1o said:

Aaaah! Aaaah! What are you doing to me!? Strawman! STRAWMAN!! HITLEEEEEER!!

 

Godwin's law proven.  The circle is complete.

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3 hours ago, Red Iron Crown said:

...Frankly I find it distasteful, it's argumentum ad hominem...

What's this? “The Romans, they go house?!”

Here’s some lessons in Latin for those who preferred those hours in high school sleeping:

 

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On 10/6/2016 at 11:30 AM, RoverDude said:

...

I'm just going to drop the mic right here.

And you've been very nice to even start posting in this incredibly unproductive thread.
I'd like to thank you for this, as well as all the time and effort you gave to KSP ; And for the future too !

Oh, and I shouldn't push at open doors here, but I believe most of KSP fans ARE NOT posting in this  thread to ask for explanation they don't deserve.
Think about all these people who are just thankful of your work and don't tell you how you should behave :kiss:
Are they the mast majority ? I do think so.

Have a nice day @RoverDude !

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