Angel-125

[1.7.x] Snacks! - Friendly, Simplified Life Support

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1 hour ago, tomkpunkt said:

Hi, i think 1.4 is broken, the game cant find snackscontainer anymore ;(

Yeah I can confirm that the 1.4 release is broken - all parts are in the "Payload" folder whereas the config files still refer to a "FuelTank" folder.

Simple enough to fix.  Just make a FuelTank folder, and move all the *.mu and *.dds files into it.  Or edit the config files.

 

EDIT: I'm guessing the file-move was done on purpose, so I've gone ahead and edited the config files instead.  Updated config files can be downloaded from here until @Angel-125 creates a patch release.

Edited by micha

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3 hours ago, micha said:

 

Yeah I can confirm that the 1.4 release is broken - all parts are in the "Payload" folder whereas the config files still refer to a "FuelTank" folder.

Simple enough to fix.  Just make a FuelTank folder, and move all the *.mu and *.dds files into it.  Or edit the config files.

 

EDIT: I'm guessing the file-move was done on purpose, so I've gone ahead and edited the config files instead.  Updated config files can be downloaded from here until @Angel-125 creates a patch release.

Ah nuts. Ok, I'll fix that asap. Also, with snack recycling and snack tins now available, I'm considering reducing snack per non-command space to 200 per seat. A 4-kerb part like the Hitchhiking and mk2 crew cabin would get 800 snacks each. I'll have to run some numbers to see what that looks like for interplanetary trips.

Edited by Angel-125

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1 hour ago, Angel-125 said:

Ah nuts. Ok, I'll fix that asap.

No worries - I've sent you a pull request.

Also, is there a way to override the number of snacks for a Command-Pod seat?  Thinking of rebalancing a couple of 2-Kerbal pods, in particular the Corvus capsule is very small so I want to reduce the resources it can contain. That'll balance it against the K2 pod a bit more.

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This is an interesting point. I like using OPT space plane parts, but some of them are fairly large for how many people they carry. They might have the opposite issue, where they should be able to carry more snacks. I understand it makes it good for compatibility without the mod needing to specifically support it, but would be nice to adjust.  I know of some tiny vehicle capsules/pods in some mods that should have a capacity of maybe 5 snacks.

Maybe a part could have a snack multiplier tag?

Edited by AmpCat

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5 hours ago, micha said:

No worries - I've sent you a pull request.

Also, is there a way to override the number of snacks for a Command-Pod seat?  Thinking of rebalancing a couple of 2-Kerbal pods, in particular the Corvus capsule is very small so I want to reduce the resources it can contain. That'll balance it against the K2 pod a bit more.

 

2 hours ago, AmpCat said:

This is an interesting point. I like using OPT space plane parts, but some of them are fairly large for how many people they carry. They might have the opposite issue, where they should be able to carry more snacks. I understand it makes it good for compatibility without the mod needing to specifically support it, but would be nice to adjust.  I know of some tiny vehicle capsules/pods in some mods that should have a capacity of maybe 5 snacks.

Maybe a part could have a snack multiplier tag?

You can change the patch.cfg file to change how many snacks per seat. Also, you'll find that some stock parts specify the number of snacks they hold. Right now I have hard-coded values in the plugin for when you add Snacks to an existing save (fixes the vessels with 0/0 case), but I can look into making that an option in the patch.cfg as well.

Just a heads up, I've built a spreadsheet to help me balance out the various Snacks parts (recycler, processor, etc), and will be releasing it as a trip planner. An in-game trip planner is also in the works but won't be available next release. Also, I think I can get away with reducing snacks per crew capacity back down to 200 per, now that I can see the effects on recycling and such.

Edited by Angel-125

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38 minutes ago, Angel-125 said:

You can change the patch.cfg file to change how many snacks per seat. Also, you'll find that some stock parts specify the number of snacks they hold.

Thanks. I should, of course, have had a look into the config files myself before asking. But following that pattern I can override snack capacity for specific parts and add them to other (uncrewed) parts.  My specific example is the Corvus pod - I think it's too small to hold much of anything apart from the Kerbals, so want to move carrying capacity to the nose cone part instead.

 

EDIT: Here's my config file ("Corvus_Snacks.cfg") if anyone is interested.

Spoiler

// MKW - The Corvus capsule is so small I think it only deserves very small Snack storage
@PART[Corvus_Exterior]:AFTER[Snacks]:NEEDS[Snacks]
{
	@RESOURCE[Snacks]
	{
		@amount = 10
		@maxAmount = 10
	}
}

// MKW - Otoh, the Corvus nose cone should contain some Snack storage
@PART[Corvus_Nose]:AFTER[Snacks]:NEEDS[Snacks]
{
	%RESOURCE[Snacks]
	{
		%amount = 100
		%maxAmount = 100
	}
}

 

 

Edited by micha
Add sample config

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Is it possible to add some penalties that could hurt you more in sandbox? Also, does this mod leave any traces if uninstalled (breaking a save?) :)

Edited by Yoshidude

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49 minutes ago, Yoshidude said:

Is it possible to add some penalties that could hurt you more in sandbox? Also, does this mod leave any traces if uninstalled (breaking a save?) :)

It is possible, and I'm open to suggestions, but any penalties would have to 1) not brick your mission and 2) not brick your save if the mod is uninstalled.

If you uninstall the mod, there won't be any save-breaking traces.

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19 minutes ago, Angel-125 said:

It is possible, and I'm open to suggestions, but any penalties would have to 1) not brick your mission and 2) not brick your save if the mod is uninstalled.

If you uninstall the mod, there won't be any save-breaking traces.

Hmm, maybe (using the loss of consciousness thing added in 1.2?) kerbals could go unconscious for a little while for snack deprivation :confused:? I also can't seem to find the new snack parts under Payload?

Edited by Yoshidude

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1 hour ago, Yoshidude said:

Hmm, maybe (using the loss of consciousness thing added in 1.2?) kerbals could go unconscious for a little while for snack deprivation :confused:? I also can't seem to find the new snack parts under Payload?

New snack parts is a known issue that will be corrected shortly. I like the idea of going unconscious! That might be possible to do as long as the unconscious state is not persistent. It could work similarly to the high-g unconscious feature. Thanks for the suggestion, I'll look into it. :)

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Ok, here we go, here is Snacks 1.4.5!

- Fixed an issue with snack tins not showing up.
- A single kerbal can now consume up to 12 snacks per meal and up to 12 snacks per day.
- By default, a single kerbal consumes 1 snack per meal and 3 meals per day.
- Reduced Soil storage in the Hitchhiker to 200. This only applies to new vessels.
- Reduced Snacks per crew capacity in non-command pods to 200 per crewmember. This only applies to new vessels.
- Added the SnacksForExistingSaves.cfg file to specify number of Snacks per command pod and snacks per non-command pod. These are used when installing Snacks into existing saves for vessels already in flight.
- Added new ISnacksPenalty interface for mods to use when implementing new penalties. One of the options is to always apply the penalty even with random penalties turned off. Of course the implementation can decide to honor random penalties...
- Added a Snacks Trip Planner Excel spreadsheet. You'll find it in the Docs folder. An in-game planner is in the works.

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And now I have a machine gun. Ho. Ho. Ho.

C0EGiFG.png

@Yoshidude Er, I know how to render a kerbal inactive! Now it's just a matter of designing a system so that if you miss enough meals (configurable of course), then your kerbal will black out. Another configurable option will set the nap time. Since it's not a persistent value, the kerbal will wake up if you uninstall the mod. It also lets me add a "food coma" option. :)

Edited by Angel-125

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Given a more serious lack-of-snack kerbal response it might be necessary to prioritise any remaining snacks. 

Eg let the Scientist (poor Bob) starve while the Pilot performs the final maneuvers to dock with the resupply vessel already orbiting Jool. Or have a way to cold-store Kerbals where they only consume 1 snack per week but are useless in the meantime and consume up to 5 snacks immediately on waking up.

 

Starting to get a bit beyond the "simple" life support remit though. :wink:

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19 minutes ago, micha said:

Given a more serious lack-of-snack kerbal response it might be necessary to prioritise any remaining snacks. 

Eg let the Scientist (poor Bob) starve while the Pilot performs the final maneuvers to dock with the resupply vessel already orbiting Jool. Or have a way to cold-store Kerbals where they only consume 1 snack per week but are useless in the meantime and consume up to 5 snacks immediately on waking up.

 

Starting to get a bit beyond the "simple" life support remit though. :wink:

True, but with the events I'm putting in place and other changes I'm making, you will be able to mod Snacks to add said functionality. :)

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This is a nice change of pace for other LS mods that have food, water, air and waste versions of the previous. Like'd and downloaded!

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3 hours ago, TopHeavy11 said:

This is a nice change of pace for other LS mods that have food, water, air and waste versions of the previous. Like'd and downloaded!

Glad you like the mod, I definitely have been having fun rewriting it. It is how I would do life support for the stock game. Technically Snacks has a waste resource in the form of Soil, but only if you have recycling turned on.

Edited by Angel-125

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@Angel-125, I'm not sure I understand exactly how Snacks determines how much food to give a part, so I'll ask:

Does the mod look for any part that can carry kerbals, and if so they get x food per seat if it's also a command part, then x*2 food if it's not a command slot?

This seemed real simple and it automatically supported any part from any mod without a mod having to explicitly support it. I like the idea of adding further options to parts, like specifying how many snacks it can hold, but it would be nice if someone updates the global 'snacks per person' number, all parts are kept in sync. Specifying a particular number of snacks per part could make this harder to keep flexible. I suppose you could always alter consumption rate instead. 

Love this mod, just asking you not make it too complex or require edits to support other parts. That would ruin part of the beauty of this mod. 

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2 hours ago, AmpCat said:

@Angel-125, I'm not sure I understand exactly how Snacks determines how much food to give a part, so I'll ask:

Does the mod look for any part that can carry kerbals, and if so they get x food per seat if it's also a command part, then x*2 food if it's not a command slot?

This seemed real simple and it automatically supported any part from any mod without a mod having to explicitly support it. I like the idea of adding further options to parts, like specifying how many snacks it can hold, but it would be nice if someone updates the global 'snacks per person' number, all parts are kept in sync. Specifying a particular number of snacks per part could make this harder to keep flexible. I suppose you could always alter consumption rate instead. 

Love this mod, just asking you not make it too complex or require edits to support other parts. That would ruin part of the beauty of this mod. 

It's all done with ModuleManager patches. Parts with command modules get 50 snacks per crew capacity, while non-command parts get 200. To make something like that configurable through the options menu would be a pretty complex process. You'd have to not only change every part in flight, but also all the prefab parts (the parts in your catalog that haven't been attached to a vessel yet). That's why you have the ability to change snacks per meal and meals per day.

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14 hours ago, Angel-125 said:

And now I have a machine gun. Ho. Ho. Ho.

C0EGiFG.png

@Yoshidude Er, I know how to render a kerbal inactive! Now it's just a matter of designing a system so that if you miss enough meals (configurable of course), then your kerbal will black out. Another configurable option will set the nap time. Since it's not a persistent value, the kerbal will wake up if you uninstall the mod. It also lets me add a "food coma" option. :)

Thank you for considering my idea :) Makes me feel appreciated

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Quick question - how to I get to the Snacks! configuration panel? KSPedia shows it being a new tab in the game's "Settings" screen, but it doesn't show up. Bug, or no longer a feature?

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8 minutes ago, micha said:

Quick question - how to I get to the Snacks! configuration panel? KSPedia shows it being a new tab in the game's "Settings" screen, but it doesn't show up. Bug, or no longer a feature?

Go to Game Difficulty button.

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21 minutes ago, Angel-125 said:

Go to Game Difficulty button.

Oh wait, right, it's per-game, not overall. Duh!

Nevermind me :P

 

PS. It might be good to either link the original thread into your OP, or copy all the info from it into your OP... KSPedia is excellent and all, but doesn't cover everything in the same amount of detail (although the details may have changed by now). Also, the original thread had a list of mods which interact/supplement Snacks!

Edited by micha
Add PS

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I noticed a new potential problem.  While they are no longer on a hunger strike, my kerbals apparently don't like the menu.  I get a Hungry Kerbal Penalty for all my active kerbals regardless of how many snacks are available.  I checked, they are in fact eating the snacks, or at least the snack supply is reducing by the correct amount per kerbal per meal, for all I know Jeb is flushing them down the zero-gee toilet.

Edited by Capt. Hunt

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