Why cant we all just get along

[flyboy67109]

The new release came out last night and I got on the forum to see the status of my favorite mods. I don't download any this early because they're always buggy and the modders need time to work them out. But, I looked and see that not only are the mod not ready (as expected) but some have thrown in the towel due to some toad pestering and insulting the modders. Now, I understand about being anxious about getting the updates to your favorite mods but everyone needs to just take a breath and chill out until they are ready. All you are doing is making the modders anxious and creating more bugs in the process. Wait a week for your mod and give them time. You'll end up with a happier modder who will build a better mod in the end.  So, relax, don't worry, and have a homebrew while you wait. And a big thanks to all the modders out there working hard.  We look forward to all the wonderful things you want to give us.

[V7 Aerospace]

100% agree with you here, sometimes people can become too entitled, as if the modders owe them something.

people just need a bit more patience.

[regex]

People getting aggro about their free content? Tell me it ain't so...

[klgraham1013]

Because human nature.

[samstarman5]

I definitely agree, and have to ask, Why rush for mod updates? Those pushing to get the mods updated aren't seeing the forest for the trees. There is so much new content in 1.2 that really should be explored first. Some of those mods might not even be relevant anymore.

If you honestly care more for mods to a game than the game itself, then you don't care for the game much at all.  I hate the thought of modders giving in to spoiled brats, but this might be a good time for the modders to just take their time before getting their updates out.  The brats can either find something else to do, or actually take the time to explore the new game update itself.

[TheSaint]

I think that everyone involved, developers, modders, and players, should all do what I'm doing: Take a break. Take a long weekend. Get some fresh air. Spend time outdoors with your families. Get some perspective. It's a video game, for Pete's sake.

[wossname]

While daydreaming on the bus the other day I was thinking about this very problem.  I think there is some psychology at play here.

I think I am right in saying that KSP is probably the most successful early-access, highly moddable game ever made, if popularity is anything to go by.

That is a new idea in itself.  People download pre-release versions and their community / consensus feedback is used to improve the game, players (on aggregate) feel part of the cycle of development.  It is only natural that people who perceive that they have played a part in something feel somewhat responsible for it and feel they are owed something in return.

Whether technically correct or not, this attitude of "I helped you make it slightly better so I own a little bit of it" is (in my practically worthless opinion) something that is culturally programmed into people.  Not all cultures do it to the same extent of course, some cultures are more cooperative than others, especially in these modern times.

People don't usually get good stuff for free ("no strings attached" as it were), especially not entertainment.  The consequences of "free stuff" can manifest in strange ways.

I do not hereby justify these fools' behaviour, but merely offer a naive explanation.

 

In summary then, we need a good old-fashioned war.  Or something.  I dunno.

Edited October 12, 2016 by wossname

[Hands MCML]

I agree that we need to be a little patient with the modders who do so much to make KSP more enjoyable and sometimes more playable. If you really want to show your appreciation, how about contributing a few dollars when you can. I know that I have been guilty of not showing my appreciation as I should, but I would never dis them.

[RX2000]

I'm kind of hoping that MJ just dies hahaha. I think people have gotten too used to MJ doing everything for them. Its funny to me thinking about them having to actually play the game themselves again.

Of course thats just me being a punk. At the end of the day I dont really care how people enjoy their own single player games. If having MJ do everything for you is fun for you, go right ahead I guess.

[regex]

13 minutes ago, RX2000 said:

Of course thats just me being a punk.

No kidding.

[Martian Emigrant]

2 hours ago, regex said:

People getting aggro about their free content? Tell me it ain't so...

Free content done on spare time.

 

ME

[razark]

I think it's reasonable for people to ask if there are plans for a mod to be updated.  After all, some people do move on to other hobbies, or otherwise lose interest in modding.

 

Not repeatedly asking about updates or otherwise pestering the modders should just be common sense, though.

[RX2000]

35 minutes ago, regex said:

No kidding.

[Randazzo]

1 hour ago, RX2000 said:

I'm kind of hoping that MJ just dies hahaha. I think people have gotten too used to MJ doing everything for them. Its funny to me thinking about them having to actually play the game themselves again.

Of course thats just me being a punk. At the end of the day I dont really care how people enjoy their own single player games. If having MJ do everything for you is fun for you, go right ahead I guess.

Seeing as you've only just completed your first docking yesterday, I can understand why you feel the way you do. When you've done it 100+ times, the joy has gone out of it. Mechjeb extended the life of KSP for me personally by a tremendous amount.

It's nice that you're proud of yourself, but that's no reason to wish doom and gloom on others, even if you follow it up with platitudes laced with thinly veiled insults.

[Alshain]

2 hours ago, Randazzo said:

Seeing as you've only just completed your first docking yesterday, I can understand why you feel the way you do. When you've done it 100+ times, the joy has gone out of it. Mechjeb extended the life of KSP for me personally by a tremendous amount.

It's nice that you're proud of yourself, but that's no reason to wish doom and gloom on others, even if you follow it up with platitudes laced with thinly veiled insults.

Funny, I've done it thousands of times and it's still just as fun for me as it always was.

BTW, what modders have 'thrown in the towel'?

[RX2000]

3 hours ago, Randazzo said:

Seeing as you've only just completed your first docking yesterday, I can understand why you feel the way you do. When you've done it 100+ times, the joy has gone out of it. Mechjeb extended the life of KSP for me personally by a tremendous amount.

It's nice that you're proud of yourself, but that's no reason to wish doom and gloom on others, even if you follow it up with platitudes laced with thinly veiled insults.

I dunno, if something is fun it usually stays fun.

I see your point though, but like I said before, no matter how you play the game its not ruining anything for anyone else since KSP is only singleplayer, so you do you man.

[magnemoe]

2 hours ago, RX2000 said:

I dunno, if something is fun it usually stays fun.

I see your point though, but like I said before, no matter how you play the game its not ruining anything for anyone else since KSP is only singleplayer, so you do you man.

Very happy for getting mechjeb back, doing all the burns get boring, learned something new however, how to change the timing of the burn on an Minmus return to cut down the time, 
Has become much better at docking large ships, yes the improved performance help in that its less lag.
Alarm clock is also very nice then running many missions at once. 
Engineer was esensial, had it not worked for 1.2 pre I would played something else
 

[pxi]

TBH I can think of few things that are more toxic to this community than someone attempting to *ahem* speed up the release of a mod via pestering the author.

One of the things I find most annoying in my professional life, is when something requires fixing and being interrupted constantly by people asking 'Is it fixed yet?' 'When will it be fixed?'  'Why isn't it fixed yet?' and so on.  Not only is it annoying, but it takes time away from actually fixing the issue.  I'm expected to tolerate this, and I do, because after all, I am being paid to do it.

Contrast that with the mod authors we have in this community who are doing what they do, seemingly for little else other than kudos.  If they would prefer that we simply wait for them to release updates when their schedule permits, that seems like the bare minimum that we as a community owe them.

[Snark]

10 hours ago, razark said:

Not repeatedly asking about updates or otherwise pestering the modders should just be common sense, though.

And, indeed, it's not just common sense (and basic human decency)... there's also a forum rule about it. Rule 2.3.f.

So... if you see someone doing that... please report the post, which will alert the moderator team and we can then do our part to keep the forum as a welcoming place for modders.

Note that rule 2.3.f allows ONE query. It's repeated queries that are out of bounds. So, what's officially not OK is asking for an update or ETA if anyone (same user or different one) has already asked.

However... I would also add that although that first query may not be actually forbidden, it's also not very nice forum etiquette. So... let's hear it for not being "that guy", shall we?

[Flayer]

I've skipped over 1.1 because of some pulseaudio issue that seems to have been resolved in 1.2 (and because I needed a break from KSP anyhow), and now I'm back for some more rocketry. I'm getting to know the absolute rear-end load of changes to the stock game over these past two versions while I'm waiting for KCT and CLS to get updated. I think those are the only core mods that I need that haven't been updated yet. Especially now that apparently RemoteTech functionality has been so elegantly included in the stock game. I have to get to know all the new parts as well. If I have any complaint, it is that there's been so many changes I don't even have time to complain to modders about updating their mods.

[razark]

22 minutes ago, Snark said:

And, indeed, it's not just common sense (and basic human decency)... there's also a forum rule about it. Rule 2.3.f.

I was kind of aiming at the point that there really shouldn't need to be a rule.

 

22 minutes ago, Snark said:

I would also add that although that first query may not be actually forbidden, it's also not very nice forum etiquette.

I'd say it's possible to ask without violating etiquette.  That's the difference between asking "Are there any plans to update this mod for 1.2?" and "1.2 is out!  When are you going to update this mod?" Of course, that only holds true as long as the modder hasn't posted something stating their intent or possible delays already.

 

Edit:

Also, asking as soon as KSP updates is unreasonable.  Give the modders a bit of time.  It's not like they don't know there's a new KSP version out!

Edited October 13, 2016 by razark

[Deddly]

Since this in about the community rather than the game, I moved the discussion to Kerbal Network. Hope you don't mind.

[Snark]

6 hours ago, razark said:

I was kind of aiming at the point that there really shouldn't need to be a rule.

Strongly agreed... but alas, there is, and probably always will be.  And while I applaud the spirit behind this thread, I doubt it'll have much impact on the problem, since I expect that the kinds of people who really need to read this (i.e. the mod-pesterers) are precisely the ones who are unlikely to be reading it.  As it stands, I suspect that much of this thread is basically preaching to the choir-- the folks here generally seem to be in agreement that pestering mod authors is a Bad Thing. 

(Might be nice to mention "Please don't pester the mod authors" in the OP title, or something, so it's more obvious to someone browsing the forum just what the thread is about.  "Why can't we all just get along" sounds like it could just be another one of the "let's not be grouchy at each other" threads, so anyone who doesn't actually look into the thread's content might be inclined to just skip over it.)

[NuclearMikenetic]

Console person here:

 

What do you do in KSP if mech jeb does all of the piloting? Most of the appeal for me is directly controlling the craft, docking myself, intercepting, experimenting and making mistakes.

 

That said I'm sure people who have been playing for years might be a bit sick of fiddling with RCS moves... but if you are sick of piloting aren't you simply done with KSP (if not for just a break?)

[legoclone09]

15 minutes ago, NuclearMikenetic said:

Console person here:

 

What do you do in KSP if mech jeb does all of the piloting? Most of the appeal for me is directly controlling the craft, docking myself, intercepting, experimenting and making mistakes.

 

That said I'm sure people who have been playing for years might be a bit sick of fiddling with RCS moves... but if you are sick of piloting aren't you simply done with KSP (if not for just a break?)

I usually use MJ just for ascents, I do really like doing docking/orbital manuvers myself. Sometimes it does get tedious and I use MJ, but the most fun for me is just executing my plans and the engineering part.