allista

[1.7] Configurable Containers

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I noticed that while the USI 1.25m tank is slightly shorter then the FL-T100 fuel tank, when using this mod, the T100 provides less space the the USI tank. The USI tank holds up to 500 food and 500 fertilizer while the T100 holds 469.1 Colony supplies and 432.1 fertilizer.

Also, are the tanks hard coded to have 2 sections with a fixed ratio? because there are 2 edit buttons on the tank that need to be used to get that much.

 

Edit, ok, this is a bug. I can use 2 edit option to give the full normal amount of LFO while using the second to give it other stuff without reducing the amount of fuel it can carry.

And I see the USI tank only holds 10 fertilizer. Though they used to hold equal amounts. Might be a change for 1.2

Edited by Vorg

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I think this mod looks interesting. I've been using other tank switching mod for a long time. But if I am to change all my switching to this, I first need to understand how to determine how many m3 I need to convert all my tanks into.

So I'm asking about the math.

Say I have a resource

RESOURCE_DEFINITION
{
	name = DarkGoo
	density = 0.001
	flowMode = ALL_VESSEL
	transfer = PUMP
	isTweakable = false
	unitCost = 500
	isVisible = true
	color = 1,0,0
	volume = 1.2
}

And I have a tank which should be able to hold 150 units of the DarkGoo, then how do I determine how many m3 that is? I'm guessing it some function of density and volume in the resource def? (what is the RESOURCE_DEFINITION volume actually measured as - Units/L or L/Unit or something else? I'm pretty sure density is mass/unit)

Next question. The TANKCONF, is that for defining the ratios for mixed tanks?

 

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22 minutes ago, Warezcrawler said:

I think this mod looks interesting. I've been using other tank switching mod for a long time. But if I am to change all my switching to this, I first need to understand how to determine how many m3 I need to convert all my tanks into.

1) So I'm asking about the math.

Say I have a resource


RESOURCE_DEFINITION
{
	name = DarkGoo
	density = 0.001
	flowMode = ALL_VESSEL
	transfer = PUMP
	isTweakable = false
	unitCost = 500
	isVisible = true
	color = 1,0,0
	volume = 1.2
}

And I have a tank which should be able to hold 150 units of the DarkGoo, then how do I determine how many m3 that is? I'm guessing it some function of density and volume in the resource def? (what is the RESOURCE_DEFINITION volume actually measured as - Units/L or L/Unit or something else? I'm pretty sure density is mass/unit)

2) Next question. The TANKCONF, is that for defining the ratios for mixed tanks?

1) Currently, the volume in RESOURCE_DEFINITION is not used by anything, neither by Squad, nor by any other mod I know of. So the way I would do it is this:

  • If this is a real substance and there's no such resource in other mods, define the density in tons/liter (like all the densities in CommunityResourcePack), then made your model so that its internal volume (as computed by your modelling software) was enough to hold the required amount: neededVolume(m3) = neededAmount(unit = L)*1000
  • If it's something totally fictional and you're at liberty to define density as you like, then again, define it as tons/liter and use the same conversion as above.
  • If it is an existing resource, things get worse: to produce a viable TANK definition you need to calculate the in-part densities (I use Blender + mu-import-export plugin to calculate volume) for parts in the mods that use this resource. As a rule, these densities differs a lot. One mod may have 100u of SomeResource in a cylinder, while the other may have 1000u in a sphere of the same volume. Then you have to decide what density to use (on of the mod's, some average or what?). I do this all the time ;.;

2) Indeed. Ratios, initial amounts and so on.

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2 hours ago, Vorg said:

I noticed that while the USI 1.25m tank is slightly shorter then the FL-T100 fuel tank, when using this mod, the T100 provides less space the the USI tank. The USI tank holds up to 500 food and 500 fertilizer while the T100 holds 469.1 Colony supplies and 432.1 fertilizer.

Also, are the tanks hard coded to have 2 sections with a fixed ratio? because there are 2 edit buttons on the tank that need to be used to get that much.

 

Edit, ok, this is a bug. I can use 2 edit option to give the full normal amount of LFO while using the second to give it other stuff without reducing the amount of fuel it can carry.

And I see the USI tank only holds 10 fertilizer. Though they used to hold equal amounts. Might be a change for 1.2

2 edit buttons??? :0.0:

This is definitely a bug. This means the tank has two ModuleTankManager MODULEs.

Could you post some screenshots?

And thanks for the report!

*considering volume difference -- I'm not to blame. Rare part developer bothers to actually calculate part's volume and the amount of resources the part can hold. They just type in the number out of the blue. When CC convert an existing part, it does not change the amount of resources defined in the original config, but rather calculates the corresponding part's "volume"; thus you can have two identical models with very different "volume" inside them. See my previous post for more details. 

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On 10/29/2016 at 8:30 PM, NeuroticGamer said:

This it the same issue I reported on the CKAN thread a few days ago.  My guess is that @allista is right and it hasn't updated yet.  I figured on waiting a week, then retesting the CKAN load.  In the meantime, all that is missing are the 2 root folder CFG files that can be copied manually from the OP install link.

It seems I've found a bug in metadata for CC and, hopefully, fixed it. We'll have to wait until CKAN re-reads it, though.

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FYI, CC means Contract Configurator to a lot of folks - so a heads up, might want to consider alternate abbreviations.  Have fun with the CKAN/JSON setup - it can get a bit squirrelly with the nested dependencies and version number interactions.

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10 hours ago, allista said:

2 edit buttons??? :0.0:

This is definitely a bug. This means the tank has two ModuleTankManager MODULEs.

Could you post some screenshots?

And thanks for the report!

*considering volume difference -- I'm not to blame. Rare part developer bothers to actually calculate part's volume and the amount of resources the part can hold. They just type in the number out of the blue. When CC convert an existing part, it does not change the amount of resources defined in the original config, but rather calculates the corresponding part's "volume"; thus you can have two identical models with very different "volume" inside them. See my previous post for more details. 

The edit window on the left is for the upper tank and the one on the right is the lower tank. I get a different window for single fuel tanks vs dual fuel (LFO) tanks.

QdvIjqK.png

I looked for dupe DLL's but there are no DLL's in the configurable containers tree. Also, I looked at the other 2 early tech LFO tanks and same thing.

Edited by Vorg

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8 hours ago, Vorg said:

The edit window on the left is for the upper tank and the one on the right is the lower tank. I get a different window for single fuel tanks vs dual fuel (LFO) tanks.

I looked for dupe DLL's but there are no DLL's in the configurable containers tree. Also, I looked at the other 2 early tech LFO tanks and same thing.

The strangest thing I've saw! :confused:

Maybe some mod conflict?

I need to see the logs to find out.

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Started game, went into sandbox vab, pop those 2 tanks on a command pod, opened the info windows and then exited. trying to keep the log down to more useful info. Log seemed to be about the same size as when I had been in for over an hour.

 

Edited by Vorg

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1 hour ago, Vorg said:

Started game, went into sandbox vab, pop those 2 tanks on a command pod, opened the info windows and then exited. trying to keep the log down to more useful info. Log seemed to be about the same size as when I had been in for over an hour.

Thanks!

But next time could you, please, upload it zipped to a fileshare or cloud storage?

This much text in a forum post kills the browser :confused:

Edit: in fact, could you delete the spoiler? I've already copied its content.

Edited by allista

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@Vorg, I see the problem. You have installed the new ConfigurableContainers and the AT_Utils (which are bundled with the Containers) atop the old ones, without removing the folders. Hence, you have some old .dlls in AT_Utils (which does not matter much), and the two sets of patches in ConfigurableContainer/Parts folder. I recommend you to reinstall from scratch.

Note: If you have the ConfigurableContainer/VolumeConfigs.user file, move it somewhere and then place back after reinstallation.

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Ok, I don't automaticly delete old folders unless I see a notice requiring it because a number of them have configs that you ether have to hunt down and save or redo settings in the game.

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Ok so I'm a bit confused by something. I don't see a way to access a pre-configured tank setup. The tanks have their default of LFO, but if I remove those and try to add back LFO there doesn't seem to be any way to do that. Also, if I load up a tank and then name and save it, I see no way to retrieve that configuration for another tank.

I've gotta be missing something...

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1 minute ago, Nori said:

Ok so I'm a bit confused by something. I don't see a way to access a pre-configured tank setup. The tanks have their default of LFO, but if I remove those and try to add back LFO there doesn't seem to be any way to do that. Also, if I load up a tank and then name and save it, I see no way to retrieve that configuration for another tank.

I've gotta be missing something...

LFO as any custom tank setups should be in the same dropdown list as basic tank types.

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Ahh, that would be what I missed... I thought it had something to do with the arrows on the bottom right of the screen. :blush:

Edited by Nori

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1 minute ago, Nori said:

Ahh, that would be what I missed... I thought it had something to do with the arrows on the bottom right of the screen. :blush:

It has: custom tank setups can be cycled through with these arrows for management: you can overwrite or delete a custom setup, when it is selected there.

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On 10/30/2016 at 4:41 PM, allista said:

It seems I've found a bug in metadata for CC and, hopefully, fixed it. We'll have to wait until CKAN re-reads it, though.

I'm pretty sure you fixed the missing CFG files issue.  CKAN freaked out at me because I had those files and it was trying to add them in after your latest metadata change.  I deleted my copies and CKAN proceeded to put them back and not issue errors/warnings.

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Is it possible to change the behavior of the mod so that procedural parts tanks get updated to a new size automatically? I often change the length of them to optimize my rockets and I have to delete and recreate the tanks now every time. 

Edited by Kolago

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43 minutes ago, Kolago said:

Is it possible to change the behavior of the mod so that procedural parts tanks get updated to a new size automatically? I often change the length of them to optimize my rockets and I have to delete and recreate the tanks now every time. 

This is a known bug which I've already fixed in the development branch. I will publish the updated version within a day!

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Couple of thoughts.

Were you able to look at the Cryo module Nertea uses for his mods to simulate boiloff of H2? It isn't added to any of your tanks so I'm not sure if it is compatible with Configurable Containers.

I thought I saw mention of this, but not sure. For ModuleSwitchableTank in the VAB, you have to empty the tank to change it. Is this because the tanks are changeable in flight and have to be empty there? I was also wondering what the criteria is for using that module vs the tank manager module.

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1 hour ago, Nori said:

Couple of thoughts.

Were you able to look at the Cryo module Nertea uses for his mods to simulate boiloff of H2? It isn't added to any of your tanks so I'm not sure if it is compatible with Configurable Containers.

I thought I saw mention of this, but not sure. For ModuleSwitchableTank in the VAB, you have to empty the tank to change it. Is this because the tanks are changeable in flight and have to be empty there? I was also wondering what the criteria is for using that module vs the tank manager module.

I was able to, but it will take some time to reimplement this inside the Containers.

Correct, a tank needs to be empty in flight; I'll fix that for editor.

The criteria is pretty arbitrary: the volume is < 8m3 = simple tank; otherwise tank manager. I'm not sure if it's even reasonable to make this distinction at all. It just seemed to me that small stock tanks with a single resource should not be allowed the partitioning.

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1 hour ago, allista said:

I was able to, but it will take some time to reimplement this inside the Containers.

Correct, a tank needs to be empty in flight; I'll fix that for editor.

The criteria is pretty arbitrary: the volume is < 8m3 = simple tank; otherwise tank manager. I'm not sure if it's even reasonable to make this distinction at all. It just seemed to me that small stock tanks with a single resource should not be allowed the partitioning.

Cool. In flight it totally makes sense, but it is just a extra step in the editor, so thanks for looking into it.

That criteria makes sense. The one caveat I have with it is that decent size Mk2 parts of stuck with simple tanks. I was playing around with spaceplanes for hours last night and kept wishing I could have multiple tanks.

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51 minutes ago, Nori said:

Cool. In flight it totally makes sense, but it is just a extra step in the editor, so thanks for looking into it.

That criteria makes sense. The one caveat I have with it is that decent size Mk2 parts of stuck with simple tanks. I was playing around with spaceplanes for hours last night and kept wishing I could have multiple tanks.

But they all have LFO counterparts which do have tank managers in them.

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9 minutes ago, allista said:

But they all have LFO counterparts which do have tank managers in them.

True, true. But then I have to think.  :P  I think I should just hide the LF only tanks...

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I dont know if you already fix this in dev version: If I revert my ship into VAB or SPH the tank definitions I made are no longer accessible and I can define more tanks and use the full volume again.

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