ThatHomelessGuy

Sending science to space lab

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It seems that considering how the lab works, once you have reached the point of getting into space you can stop collecting science on Kerbin early. You could later go around the KSC and the rest of kerbin collecting data and just have a lander can near the launch pad where you can deposit it until you have gathered all the kerbin surface science.  Am I correct in assuming that if you have say Jeb collect the data and climb a ladder to a rocket on it's way to say duna or even just kerbins orbit and stick the science into a station with a lab you can actually improve the ammount of science you get from it. I know that the lab won't give extra science on Kerbin but I kinda want to try it out later in my career mode game and was wondering if it would actually work.

I think it will work based on what I have read about the lab but haven't found any examples of anyone actually trying it.

Thanks in advance.

@Moderators Why does everything I post or reply to have to be approved by a moderator? And how do I make it stop?

Edited by ThatHomelessGuy

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You get very little science return from the lab for science on Kerbin, its gimped on purpose. 
Now put it in orbit or another body and it makes sense. 
You collect experiments and stuff in lab, this can either be science equipment on the base itself, kerbal on eva or science stored in science containers or pods who you move to lab.
then you analyze it to get science, after some weeks transmit the science back.


 

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I'm sorry but I already said I understand how the lab works and that it doesn't produce any science of actual value on Kerbin. My question pretty much said I understand everything you said, I was just looking for clarification as to whether it will work.
I wish people would actually read before replying.

I guess I should have summarised it as "Is it the lab or the science itself that is nerfed on kerbin?" Or a least presented it as another question beside my main one of "Will it work?"

I guess it will I'll just have to try.

Edited by ThatHomelessGuy
Spelling because of a stupid autocorrect

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Yes, it would work. So far i've sent two Science Labs to orbits of Mun and Minmus - both were loaded with experiments on the surface and in flight in Kerbin's atmo. Science return rate went up as my ships put more distance between them and home. Send the same experiment data to Duna or Eve and you will get even more Science.

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That's so silly. Hiw does a temperature scan from Kerbin's surface become more significant when studied over Duna?

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37 minutes ago, Veeltch said:

That's so silly. Hiw does a temperature scan from Kerbin's surface become more significant when studied over Duna?

One might say you are sending a control sample from Kerbin to compare to the samples you observe around Duna. I mean the little dudes are taking allot of time doing work in that lab some times.

 

 

2 hours ago, Scotius said:

Yes, it would work. So far i've sent two Science Labs to orbits of Mun and Minmus - both were loaded with experiments on the surface and in flight in Kerbin's atmo. Science return rate went up as my ships put more distance between them and home. Send the same experiment data to Duna or Eve and you will get even more Science.

Thank you that's pretty much what I was looking for. Saves me doing the science on it myself since If it didn't work I'd have to either send the data home again or collect it all again and well that would be a pain in the the kass.

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2 hours ago, Veeltch said:

That's so silly. Hiw does a temperature scan from Kerbin's surface become more significant when studied over Duna?

Maybe you're comparing the temp at Kerbin and at Duna (we'll just pretend that they got the science... somehow).

Edited by Bill Phil

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I did a recent check of science returns. TLDR version:

- Kerbin on the ground: don't bother.

- Bonus for the lab being in the same situation as the science being processed: land it on Duna, add science from local area, get 6x as much science out as data in.

- Data returned to a lab anywhere else at all (except Kerbin ground): 5x as much science out as data in, regardless of where the data came from.

My conclusion is the right place for a lab is either on the active vessel, or in LKO where it's easy to access :)  That extra 20% for being on-site is rarely worth chasing, imho.

*edit* You can however load up data from KSP, walk it to a rocket, send it up to LKO and load it into a lab there for 5x processing, as with any other data. Terrestrial space programs do this - that's why it's legit :) 

Edited by eddiew

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1 hour ago, Bill Phil said:

Maybe you're comparing the temp at Kerbin and at Duna (we'll just pretend that they got the science... somehow).

Well... But that's like taking a paper with the results of a temp scan from Kerbin to Duna and once you're there the ink suddenly changes it's shape and says that the temperature was different.

What kind of Schroedinger ink is that?

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1 minute ago, Veeltch said:

Well... But that's like taking a paper with the results of a temp scan from Kerbin to Duna and once you're there the ink suddenly changes it's shape and says that the temperature was different.

What kind of Schroedinger ink is that?

Idk, but it seems like a good idea to compare planets... We do refer to them in units based on Earth sometimes. Earth Radii, Earth Mass.

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1 hour ago, Veeltch said:

Well... But that's like taking a paper with the results of a temp scan from Kerbin to Duna and once you're there the ink suddenly changes it's shape and says that the temperature was different.

What kind of Schroedinger ink is that?

We are assuming like any self respecting kerbonaut that they haven't gone to Duna just to study Kerbin science data and that they will actually be doing Duna science there as their primary objective. Since science data (sorry but I have to break the fourth wall for a sec) and any extra credit we get for it in the lab is is expended when we return it to the KSC it makes sense for gameplay reasons that it would be required to send it to duna before actually claiming the science or simply loose the "extra credit" we would get for comparing Duna science to documented studies already published on Kerbin.

Hey that's a cool idea for a mod that increases how much science you get from each planet based on how many other bodies you have claimed that science from already. Like if you have done all or part of the biome temp studies on Kerbin then you get more science for biome temp studies on Duna when you do them and then even more once you have Kerbin and duna when you take biome temp studies on Eve.

Sorry for the delay in approving the post - The moderation team. <- feel free to delete the sentence in all caps directed at you.

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1 hour ago, ThatHomelessGuy said:

Sorry for the delay in approving the post - The moderation team. <- feel free to delete the sentence in all caps directed at you.

No problem Thanks guys appreciate it. I'm going to bed now I think heheh

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There is no need to collect data on the surface of kerbin

each lab is independent and will accept repeated data

so sending 3 lab + lander ships on a trip to orbit,  mun, minmus, sun, will provide all the data needed to unlock the tech tree

 

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Honestly, I don't like the lab.  It's drastically overpowered.  Land a lab on Minmus and run the data from every Minmus biome through it, and you should be almost done with the whole tech tree.

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Lab is definitely op, at least only unique data should be accepted, allowing duplicate data means science could be farmed.

 

Makes for less incentives to push your sphere of influence 

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What's your goal in the science/career game? If it's purely to unlock the tech tree as quickly as possible before starting a new game then the lab might be OP for you. Maybe try setting science returns to 50% (that's how I play stock) and not using the lab.

The great thing about KSP, flawed as it may be, is that you can play it pretty much however you want. You can even sit in Kerbin SOI and finish an entire tech tree. If you want to challenge yourself, though, you should be prepared to set your own goals and restrictions.

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I plan to use the science lab for training kerbals on interplanetary missions rather than for science points.

Seems to me a great way to make it useful enough to bring without being OP.

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I doubt I have ever collected more than 100-200 science points form labs before finishing the stock science tree, after that it is just a question of how much science do you end up collecting.

(my 1.1(.3) game had almost 30K unspent science points after unlocking the entire community tech tree by the time 1.2-pre came out, and my Jool ship had not even made it back to return collected data... I should really try out that R&D mod)

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4 hours ago, regex said:

What's your goal in the science/career game? If it's purely to unlock the tech tree as quickly as possible before starting a new game then the lab might be OP for you. Maybe try setting science returns to 50% (that's how I play stock) and not using the lab...

^^ exactly this.  My own newly minted career is set at 40% for science, funds and rep.  Much more challenging.  And the end goal isn't just to fill the tech-tree, its to put a base on all bodies, ISRU in each system, and grand tour or three, and visit all anomalies which is something I have never done before.  All within the confines of $@40%.

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1 hour ago, Terwin said:

I doubt I have ever collected more than 100-200 science points form labs before finishing the stock science tree, after that it is just a question of how much science do you end up collecting.

(my 1.1(.3) game had almost 30K unspent science points after unlocking the entire community tech tree by the time 1.2-pre came out, and my Jool ship had not even made it back to return collected data... I should really try out that R&D mod)

Yes you should. It came out for 1.2 yesterday. :-)

I can't really start my serious 1.2 career in earnest until Kopernicus is updated, since the plan is to combine stock-ish parts with R&D in an upscaled system.

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I know!  You're not publishing the results yet, instead you are getting more stuff to compare it to so it seems more valid in the paper, and other scientists can't get their dirty hands on the data and claim that they made a big discovery.

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Data mechanic should fit into the laws of diminishing returns that governs the gathering of science.

 

as if the labs all share a cloud of data, and draws data from the cloud, duplicates generating diminished data, and science return based on the distance to kerbin when the data is being converted to science

 

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20 hours ago, Norcalplanner said:

Yes you should. It came out for 1.2 yesterday. :-)

I can't really start my serious 1.2 career in earnest until Kopernicus is updated, since the plan is to combine stock-ish parts with R&D in an upscaled system.

As the Mk0 LF tank seem to be the most efficient tank to start with(2K lf/ton of dry weight vs 1.6K/ton for the Mk1 and ~1.4K/ton for Mk2 or Mk3), I thought I would try upgrading that...

My version currently has 10% weight(0.0025) and 140% fuel(70 units) for a whopping 28K lf/ton.  Staging off a dozen empty tanks(holding almost 1.7K lf when full), the tanks weigh less than the strut + smallest radial decoupler.

Suddenly I see why so many people are concerned about long thin rockets being bendy, those are the most efficient tanks for nuclear engines.

( I did run into some launch problems when I replaced a 7.2K fuel probe with a 9.7K fuel probe due to not accounting for the added fuel weight, I'm hoping my 8K fuel version is easier to launch)

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