The update hazzle

[nuclearping]

I didn't play KSP since 1.1.2 and wanted to spend some time with it. I see there is version 1.2 already, great!

But here comes the problem I think everyone ran into already: Updating ~40 mods each time a new version is released is painful and always takes me like 1-2 hours and frustrates me to a point where I rather play something else.

Isn't there an easy "one-click" solution to update all mods? I know about CKAN or Mod Manager, but personally never got used to them because they still require too much user interaction and configuration.

Since KSP Mods are hosted on Curse, I wonder why there is no KSP section in the "Curse Client" software? I was using "Curse Client" to update all my WoW mods back then. Was quick and easy, no hazzle at all. Just a simple and easy one-click solution. @SQUAD Would it be possible to integrate KSP into the "Curse Client"? I think that would be awesome!

[klesh]

12 minutes ago, nuclearping said:

 @SQUAD Would it be possible to integrate KSP into the "Curse Client"? I think that would be awesome!

 

The last we heard from the Curse guy, he was apologizing for being behind scedule but suggested that it would be available "early next year".  That was in December of 2014.   Subsequent attempts to get an answer out of him or the other rep from curse have gone unanswered. Mind you, this is the "official" mod repository for the game.

Unfortunately, I wouldn't hold your breath for the Curse client to be your solution.  

[Kerbart]

I have separate copies for each release and I add the mods (that I want to continue to use) in as they get updated. They rarely get all updated at once, so it's not that big of a deal for me.

[soulsource]

Some mods are hosted at Curse, but many mods are hosted on other places, including but not limited to the personal websites of the mod developers, github, SpaceDock,...

While I personally do not like CKAN it does have the advantage of allowing to obtaining mods from all those different sources.

[AlmostNASA]

16 minutes ago, Kerbart said:

I have separate copies for each release and I add the mods (that I want to continue to use) in as they get updated. They rarely get all updated at once

 I do the same but huh KK is a goner now so bummer I can't make airports. 

[regex]

2 hours ago, nuclearping said:

Isn't there an easy "one-click" solution to update all mods? I know about CKAN or Mod Manager, but personally never got used to them because they still require too much user interaction and configuration.

Wat

A "one-click solution" for updating mods created by a diverse and eccentric bunch of random developers, each with their own update timeline, ideas on how things should be done, and varying opinions of different hosting solutions is a total pipe dream. CKAN's about as simple as it gets for mod updating, maybe not to a new KSP version but to a new mod version.

[nuclearping]

I remember when I tried CKAN back then, it offered me / required "dependencies" and other stuff for various mods, so I always ended up installing more than I wanted and didn't need when installing the mods manually.

But I will give CKAN another try. Didn't know the situation is so bad about Curse Client. :/

[severedsolo]

2 minutes ago, nuclearping said:

I remember when I tried CKAN back then, it offered me / required "dependencies" and other stuff for various mods, so I always ended up installing more than I wanted and didn't need when installing the mods manually.

But I will give CKAN another try. Didn't know the situation is so bad about Curse Client. :/

Anything that CKAN insists on installing should be a dependency. "recommended" (which I think is what you are talking about) don't have to be.

That's actually one of the good things about Ckan, it is supposed to take care of dependencies for you. It's not perfect by any means, but it's convenient

[Alshain]

The biggest problem with this is that not all the mods update at the same time.  So there is no good way to update everything at once when a new release of the game comes out.

CKAN's most annoying issue is that it insists it knows what is best for you.  According to CKAN you are a moron and should not be allowed to install the mod you want if it hasn't been explicitly updated for 1.2.  Nevermind that the mod doesn't actually NEED updating, you can't install it at all.  Unless it has changed recently, there is no user override, the developers feel that they know better than you.  The other side of the coin is when CKAN has the wrong version, which is often.  Ultimately it's a good theory, terrible practice.

Edited October 16, 2016 by Alshain

[Francois424]

2 hours ago, Kerbart said:

I have separate copies for each release and I add the mods (that I want to continue to use) in as they get updated. They rarely get all updated at once, so it's not that big of a deal for me.

^^  This.

Not only that but in my case where I have personalized parts I've kept over the years, it takes me far more than 2 hours (Consider yourself lucky).
I can relate to some modders not having time to update everything asap.  I'm still only halfway done thru my stuff, and watching what updated before firing the game for a long session.

Just keep at it OP, and bookmark your favorite mod's KSP forum posts in your browser of choice.  It makes it far easier to check for updates.

[Superfluous J]

1 hour ago, regex said:

Wat

A "one-click solution" for updating mods created by a diverse and eccentric bunch of random developers, each with their own update timeline, ideas on how things should be done, and varying opinions of different hosting solutions is a total pipe dream. CKAN's about as simple as it gets for mod updating, maybe not to a new KSP version but to a new mod version.

This is the main problem with what you want. And don't you dare try to fix it, as it's the best thing about the KSP modding community.

[Tex_NL]

1 hour ago, regex said:

CKAN's about as simple as it gets for mod updating

No CKAN is even simpler. Drag, drop, done.

[regex]

52 minutes ago, Tex_NL said:

No CKAN is even simpler. Drag, drop, done.

What?

[Tex_NL]

1 minute ago, regex said:

What?

What do you mean 'What?'? Manually updating your mods is as simple as it can be. I fail to see the need for any additional apps. I have rarely seen a game where installing mods is as easy as it is in KSP. (It is almost as easy as MindRover) You do not need CKAN or any other mod manager.

[regex]

3 minutes ago, Tex_NL said:

Manually updating your mods is as simple as it can be.

That's not what your post said.

[Tex_NL]

2 minutes ago, regex said:

That's not what your post said.

I said 'No CKAN is simpler.' As is No CKAN. I did not say 'No, CKAN is simpler' Notice the comma after no?

Apparently you did not read what I wrote. You read what you thought I wrote.

Edited October 16, 2016 by Tex_NL

[regex]

18 minutes ago, Tex_NL said:

I said 'No CKAN is simpler.' As is No CKAN. I did not say 'No, CKAN is simpler' Notice the comma after no?

Apparently you did not read what I wrote. You read what you thought I wrote.

[Starman4308]

19 minutes ago, Tex_NL said:

I said 'No CKAN is simpler.' As is No CKAN. I did not say 'No, CKAN is simpler' Notice the comma after no?

Apparently you did not read what I wrote. You read what you thought I wrote.

It is not Regex's failure that your post was poorly phrased and incredibly easy to misinterpret.

Also, for certain mods, CKAN does make it significantly easier, else you have shenanigans like multiple packaged MM installations, etc.

[Vanamonde]

Modding discussion moved to the modding subforum. 

[Draco T stand-up guy]

2 hours ago, regex said:

A "one-click solution" for updating mods created by a diverse and eccentric bunch of random developers, each with their own update timeline, ideas on how things should be done, and varying opinions of different hosting solutions is a total pipe dream.

You do realise that's how Curse works don't you?

And if you think about it it's really not that difficult. The app would have to able to find the game installation directory, find the game version and installed mods and then be able to instal the necessary files in the right place. Considering that mods all get installed into the same directory and have the same file structure that's not difficult as all it is is copying a file folder with all the mods files into the game data directory.

The hard part is having a secure location from which to source the mods for the app to install which is accessible to the modders to update when they get round to it.

Edited October 16, 2016 by Draco T stand-up guy

[regex]

4 minutes ago, Draco T stand-up guy said:

You do realise that's how Curse works don't you?

Does Curse pull mods from Github, Dropbox, and other random websites or only from Curse?

[Draco T stand-up guy]

4 minutes ago, regex said:

Does Curse pull mods from Github, Dropbox, and other random websites or only from Curse?

Only from files stored on Curse. As I said, providing that secure file storage location which allows the modders access to it when they're ready to update a mod is the hard part. And not because the modders won't go for the hosting (they will as it makes it easier for them) but because it's hard and expensive to set up and maintain.

[regex]

Just now, Draco T stand-up guy said:

they will as it makes it easier for them

Are you sure about that? Does Curse integrate with Github or other repositories? One of the reasons I would choose Github over Curse for hosting is that my code is hosted, anyone can fork and make PRs, and the download link for the user can be shared as a download link as opposed to having the user go through the Curse site.

Curse, or any other hosting site, isn't the end-all, be-all for modding. You are literally talking about a wildly varied group of coders and artists who all have their own ideas about the best way to do things.

[katateochi]

1 hour ago, Tex_NL said:

Manually updating your mods is as simple as it can be

This is true, for a few mods, or when just updating one. Checking forum to see if each one is updated, downloading those that have and then one-by-one extracting each one into KSP kinda stops being fun after you'd done it countless times. I used to say what you're saying, why bother with a manger, but CKAN really does make it more convenient. 

 

3 hours ago, Alshain said:

CKAN's most annoying issue is that it insists it knows what is best for you.  According to CKAN you are a moron and should not be allowed to install the mod you want if it hasn't been explicitly updated for 1.2.  Nevermind that the mod doesn't actually NEED updating, you can't install it at all.  Unless it has changed recently, there is no user override, the developers feel that they know better than you.  The other side of the coin is when CKAN has the wrong version, which is often.  Ultimately it's a good theory, terrible practice.

You can override that in a couple ways. Hacky way is just to change your KSP version in the readme.txt file (I think that still works) and I believe there is a command line method to install/upgrade a mod to any version. 

 

35 minutes ago, regex said:

One of the reasons I would choose Github over Curse for hosting is that my code is hosted, anyone can fork and make PRs, and the download link for the user can be shared as a download link as opposed to having the user go through the Curse site.

 Those reasons plus github's long standing policy of "if your code is accessible to all, then hosting is free" is all about promoting an open-source environment and it just blends into standard development workflow. That and it's industrial grade infrastructure that makes it appealing to some big companies, heck;

Quote

GitHub is proud to host projects and organizations like NASA.

https://github.com/business/customers/jpl


But developers/artists will want to host where they want to host and CKAN is non-exclusive, it doesn't care about host, where as curse and any curse client will only ever been for curse hosted mods.  CKAN is something that is community made and provides the only form of centralised knowledge base of mod information that this community has....and we badly need that. Sure it has issues (what doesn't) and isn't perhaps the slickest looking thing, but it works for this varied community without stipulating where you have to host, so even if you don't use it, it's really something that needs our support. 

Edited October 16, 2016 by katateochi

[Superfluous J]

5 hours ago, Tex_NL said:

No CKAN is even simpler. Drag, drop, done.

I think @regex misread your post in the same way I did. It looked to me like you were saying:

No, CKAN is even simpler. Drag, drop, done.

Granted you didn't put that comma in there but if the Internet has taught us anything in the past 20 years, it's that the majority of the population has no idea what commas are actually for. I personally mentally added it and I suspect regex did as well. This is of course not your fault at all, but it just explains the thought process.