[1.4+] BETA: Kerbal Attachment System (KAS) v1.0 Release Candidate 1

[IgorZ]

KAS v1.0.6845_rc2

RC2 (Sep 29th, 2018):

• [Fix] Small fix to RU localization.
• [Fix #230] Cable joints get reinforced by the autostruts.
• [Fix #232] NPE when connected vessels go on rails (range more than 2.5km).
• [Fix #235] Fix attach function of the legacy hooks .
• [Change] Improve parts tech tree and categories.
• [Change] Use the stock game logic to create rigid joints.
• [Change] Use aluminum instead of steel for JS-1 part. This reduced its mass down to 8kg (vs 30kg).
• [Enhancement #231] Add the pylon parts: GP-20 and BGP-400.

Note, that the tech tree has changed. If you're playing a career game, some of the parts may disappear from the editor and some other may magically show up. It should not affect the existing designs, though.

[RealKerbal3x]

Yay!! Release candidate 2!!

@IgorZ How many RCs will there be before we get the full release?

[IgorZ]

21 hours ago, RealKerbal3x said:

Yay!! Release candidate 2!!

@IgorZ How many RCs will there be before we get the full release?

My hope was to go into release after RC1, but then there were critical bugs discovered (#232, #230). Now we have RC2. I give it 1 week to have anything critical found. If nothing is found, it'll go live.

[_TG_]

Any plan on action group support for the new winches? I'm using extend/retract on the legacy ones and it's very useful for cranes.

Btw here's a little carrier action with the new winch:

https://imgur.com/59PVZ4m

[IgorZ]

8 hours ago, _TG_ said:

Any plan on action group support for the new winches? I'm using extend/retract on the legacy ones and it's very useful for cranes.

Btw here's a little carrier action with the new winch:

https://imgur.com/59PVZ4m

Nice carrier! As for the action groups, this is a feature for the release. I want to get into production at less, then start turning it. Created a feature request: https://github.com/ihsoft/KAS/issues/236

Btw, you can use winch remote control, it allows doing almost anything.

Edited October 6, 2018 by IgorZ

[IgorZ]

Heads up! A final notice: RC1 is planned to become a release on Sunday. If you had any issues with it which you haven't yet reported, please, do it ASAP. On Monday everyone, who has auto update enabled, will get the new version.

[Tonka Crash]

@IgorZ I'm running into a bug with the Resource Transfer GUI. 

1) The Resource Transfer GUI does not find resources in components connected by KAS components. In the picture below. The GUI is for an RTS-1 on the base connected to the lander just above the crew portraits. In the GUI the LFO is only 180/220, but the resources in the upper right show much more fuel available. KPBS flexible corridors make up the connections to where the primary fuel is located with just a little in the base section directly connected with the RTS-1.

Originally I connected to the Ore storage tower at the far right and no fuel was available at all. The Ore storage is connected to the base by a RTS-1 in docked mode, so the GUI should have shown at least the fuel I have available in the picture if this was just a KPBS problem. A convert-o-tron located on the base under the gui has no problem using resources through the RTS-1 and KPBS connections.

2) I can use TAC Fuel Balancer to transfer fuel without problems through KAS connections, but Ship ID is not preserved in the TAC Fuel Balancer GUI for ships connected with RTS-1 in docked mode. All KAS connected in docked mode ships show as part of the base in the TAC gui. Ships docked with docking ports show as different ships. This is really minor and probably not your problem, but its maintainer @Z-Key Aerospace hasn't been on the forum in a couple months.

3) If the maximum transfer rate isn't based on a real world system, could you increase it? I keep building larger and larger fuel/ore transports and they are getting really slow to fill. Again this is minor.

Edited October 7, 2018 by Tonka Crash

[IgorZ]

12 hours ago, Tonka Crash said:

In the GUI the LFO is only 180/220, but the resources in the upper right show much more fuel available.

Specifically this situation is not a sign of any bug. The stock resources window seems to show the total reserve of the resources, while RTS deals with only the reserves that can be actually accessed at the point of the connection. Try turning the problematic RTS into the docking mode, and then check what would the stock interface say when you try to move the specific resource between the parts. I'd love to see a less complicated setup to have this bug (if it's a bug!) reproduced.

12 hours ago, Tonka Crash said:

KPBS flexible corridors make up the connections to where the primary fuel is located with just a little in the base section directly connected with the RTS-1.

This can be an explanation of the issue you observe. Those corridors use the old KAS joint system, which is not really compatible with the stock game mode "Obey crossfeed rules". When I was experimenting with this game setting, I've learned that it's not working as expected when turned on/off during the game. I.e. if this setting was enabled when the game was created, and then you've turned it off, it doesn't mean the resources are now unrestricted. I'd speculate that your game was created with this option set to ON, and since the old KAS corridors are not able to transfer any resources, you don't see them available at the RTS-1 part. It's very hard to prove this theory due to the unstable working of the game setting (never worked to me). However, you can verify the theory by using TJ-1/TJ-2 parts from KAS 1.0 - I know for sure that they are fully compatible with the stock game resource transfer system (and they obey the game settings!). I'd be very appreciated if you could do this test for me.

12 hours ago, Tonka Crash said:

All KAS connected in docked mode ships show as part of the base in the TAC gui

As of now it's an expected behavior. When you attach anything using KAS, it's like adding a part to the existing vessel (undocked modes excluded). The third-party mods expect to find a docking module to distinguish the docked vessels, and those are not present when attaching via KAS. I have no idea how this can be fixed at this moment. However, I've created a tracking issue.

12 hours ago, Tonka Crash said:

If the maximum transfer rate isn't based on a real world system, could you increase it? I keep building larger and larger fuel/ore transports and they are getting really slow to fill

The upper bound for the transfer speed is locked via the part's config setting "maxTransferSpeed". I've set it so that it's reasonable, given the pipe size. Feel free to override the setting if you don't care about the realism. My point is simple: it must be physical and reasonable. If you're going to fuel a 1000t tank, you should be using a pipe of an adequate diameter, or wait while it get filled using a smaller pipe. For the reference, the current RTS rate is greater than the stock game one  Not to mention, that the stock game logic limits the transfer rate to the graphics performance, and RTS doesn't depend on your hardware performance .

Spoiler

In the future versions RTS may start consuming power to do the transfer. And it will depend of the transfer rate.

Thank you very much for testing it! I really need people who use the new KAS parts in a way in never thought they can be used  It's the best testing case one could expect.

Edited October 8, 2018 by IgorZ

[Burning Kan]

1 hour ago, IgorZ said:

In the future versions RTS may start consuming power to do the transfer. And it will depend of the transfer rate.

Yeah , also thx for including legecy parts

 

[mrstoned]

8 hours ago, IgorZ said:

In the future versions RTS may start consuming power to do the transfer. And it will depend of the transfer rate.

I like this idea.

Also a question; can two RTS be connected at once to increase the transfer rate? *Note; I've not actually used the new stuff much yet. Havent gotten that far along in my new career.

[Tonka Crash]

@IgorZ I won't have time to test until later tonight 10hrs or so from now. I guess I also need some explanation on what expected behavior should be. Sorry for the wall of text, I'm kind of like Snark in that I tend to be verbose. The spoiler is about my last question, I got a new info below it.

Spoiler

 

I'm not really sure what you want to see with TJ-1/TJ-2 parts. I haven't used them yet because honestly I find them too short. Their limited length severely limits their usefulness to me. I understand your rational to keep them realistic, but I just haven't found a use case for them yet.

ResourceTransferObeyCrossfeed=True in my save. Is this my problem? This is really only my 3rd game which I started around the time you went public with KAS 1.0. I haven't given much thought to crossfeed restrictions at all and I guess don't really understand what behaviors I should expect. 

I guess my next question becomes what resources do you think the should be seen at the point of connection for the RTS-1 in my base above? How do you intend crossfeed restrictions to apply to KAS parts? I thought crossfeed only came into effect over decouplers and docking ports. I just don't see them applying across KAS connections.

I have been treating the RTS-1 in docked mode as a bi-directional connection to the plumbing on the base and should not be isolated to a single structure. I've been using  RTS-1 docked or the KPBS flex tubes to connect various structures and "extend the plumbing" to share resources between them up until now I haven't run into a restriction.

As far as the various structures making up my base are concerned it doesn't seem to matter if there is a KPBS flex tube or RTS-1 in docked mode linking two segments. The convrt-o-tron uses resources across KPBS/KAS connections and refills fuel tanks over the same connections. Buildings stay powered during night, this is easy to verify as there is a nuclear reactor on the Ore storage (the green glow) without which buildings should go dark at night as nothing has enough battery power to last through night without this reactor. Is this the way it should work? 

The problem is the Transfer GUI seems to be an exception to the behavior I see elsewhere. It only sees the resources in the segment it's directly connected and doesn't jump across other KAS connections.

If I switch the RTS-1 to docked mode, the GUI goes away apparently by design, then I have to use something else. In my case I use TAC Fuel Balancer to avoid hunting and clicking on individual tanks. I can move resources from anywhere on the base to anyplace else. I've done this almost daily for weeks. But from what I saw below it appear TAC fuel balancer may ignore crossfeed restrictions and gotten me use to an abnormal behavior, but that doesn't explain why my base works like I want.

The ship ID thing is a minor issue to me. It's just something I'd noticed that seemed odd since I use TAC Fuel Balancer so frequently over KAS connections.

I have no problem sticking to realistic numbers I just didn't know how realistic these were. I was just wondering if you had done the math to come up with the rates. 

 

Even though I'm at work, I wanted to peek at something and found an answer to at least why I couldn't transfer using the ore tank as a hub.

It seems that the direction of connections matter with the RTS-1's. The setup below mimics the ore storage tower above. The picture below uses the same geometry if you think of the ground pylon below as the Ore storage tanks above. In the case below I cannot transfer resources between the capsule and a tank under the Transfer GUI window with either the stock GUI or the KAS Transfer GUI with one RTS-1 docked and the other undocked (doesn't matter which one is set docked and the other undocked). With both docked I cannot transfer with the stock GUI, but TAC Fuel Balancer works fine. Obey Crossfeed is set to On. To me both docked should be equivalent to an open pipe between the capsule on the right and the tank at the left and there should be no crossfeed restriction no matter what the game setting is.

If I flip the RTS-1 so it's mounted to the capsule and the hose is connected to the ground base when I set it docked, the transfer GUI works for the connection from the RTS-1 on the ground base to the tanks under the Transfer GUI.

[Tonka Crash]

First a simple bug. The new ground pylons with integrated port are not recognized as valid connectors for the TJ-1 TJ-2 when they probably should be.

Second fuel only seems to flow in only one direction with the RTS-1 or Telescopic joints in docked mode.

Same base as last night with the same lander and RTS-1 connection. The only way I could get the Transfer GUI for the RTS-1 attached to the lander to see the fuel in the tank at the  left was to have the bases of the Telescopic Joints or the RTS-1 to the left (tank or upstream) and JS-1 to the right (lander or downstream) of each connection. This worked for either RTS-1 or TJ-1 TJ-2 in docked mode. For electricity, USI-LS supplies and ore it doesn't seem to matter if the connections are docked or undocked or which orientation they have.  I also had to disconnect the KPBS flex tube for the parallel KAS connection to function. I could reconnected the flex tub and KAS continued to work until I reloaded the base. I also turned off the Obey Crossfeed Rules and restarted with really no change in behavior that I could see. 

[IgorZ]

@Tonka Crash, thanks for testing this! I didn't have that big testing facility as you do, so it's all very useful. Below some comments and notes:

1. I was able to reproduce the two-RTS setup bug. Created a tracking issue, so will try to track it down.
2. Most mods that offer resources transfer do not respect any cross-feed settings. I could easily do the same in KAS, but my intention was to obey the game rules.
3. "Obey Crossfeed" setting in the game requires that the part must explicitly declare if the resources can pass thru it (except for the electricity, it can always pass). In the old KAS the links don't have a vital part of the parts connection: the attach nodes. When the rule is turned off, it doesn't matter, but if it's on, then "no attach nodes" means "no crossfeed allowed". That said, the modules, attached via a flexible corridor, cannot exchange resources. For your base it's not a big deal, but if you were adding engines, then it would be a showstopper, since the engines would not be able to consume fuel from the connected modules. RTS behaves the same way as the engines do, so it's affected.
4. RTS in the docked mode becomes just a regular part with no special abilities or behavior.

13 hours ago, Tonka Crash said:

I was just wondering if you had done the math to come up with the rates. 

Not really. I've picked up a reasonable value, and it's already too high for some resources. E.g. the RTS-1 has max rate of 20 units pe a second which is too few for electricity, but for LOX it means 50kg per second, which is quite a speed.

5 hours ago, Tonka Crash said:

First a simple bug. The new ground pylons with integrated port are not recognized as valid connectors for the TJ-1 TJ-2 when they probably should be.

It's not a bug. Note, that this part has socket for the "hose-70" type only. For the structural links, a dedicated socket needs to be installed.

5 hours ago, Tonka Crash said:

I also turned off the Obey Crossfeed Rules and restarted with really no change in behavior that I could see. 

It never worked for me either. It seems this setting should be changed at the game generation. When changed after that it behaves very surprisingly.

To sum up. I believe that most of the issue come from the bug, which is recorded. However, even with this bug fixed, I'd not expect the flexible corridors to start providing resources. Only if you disable the crossfeed setting and manage to make the game noticing it.

[Tonka Crash]

7 hours ago, IgorZ said:

Most mods that offer resources transfer do not respect any cross-feed settings. I could easily do the same in KAS, but my intention was to obey the game rules.

I guess I've been tripped up with the KAS Transfer GUI because it's the first mod that I've run across that does respect this. It would be nice to have a config file setting to change this, but your mod, your rules. Half the fun of KSP is problem solving, it's just the constraints you have to work with aren't always what you expect.

7 hours ago, IgorZ said:

It's not a bug. Note, that this part has socket for the "hose-70" type only. For the structural links, a dedicated socket needs to be installed.

It's my first time using these parts and I rushed a supply drop to the base for testing, so I'll admit I didn't read the descriptions. The pylons are confusing because the JS-1 is used by multiple parts, the socket on the pylon looks like a JS-1, but not all parts that connect to a JS-1 connect to the pylon. 

 

 

 

[therealcrow999]

@IgorZI have a fresh install of KSP today and decided to use this beta. I downloaded KAS_v1.0.6845_rc2. I assume I can delete that LEGACY folder in there, since I just want the new stuff from 1.0 and don't have an old save with the old parts?

[therealcrow999]

Your KAS tab in the VAB is missing the GP-20 Pylon. And the BGP-400.

Edited October 18, 2018 by therealcrow999

[IgorZ]

3 hours ago, therealcrow999 said:

@IgorZI have a fresh install of KSP today and decided to use this beta. I downloaded KAS_v1.0.6845_rc2. I assume I can delete that LEGACY folder in there, since I just want the new stuff from 1.0 and don't have an old save with the old parts?

Yep, it'll work just fine.

3 hours ago, therealcrow999 said:

Your KAS tab in the VAB is missing the GP-20 Pylon. And the BGP-400.

Good catch! Added a tracking bug.

[LoadingTimeExpert]

I can finally make a working glider and glider tow vehicle

[IgorZ]

So, it's the time! This weekend (pacific time) KAS v1.0 goes live. Below is the list of fixes since RC2, but the version which has the fixes will actually be a main branch release, so it won't be posted in this thread.

1.0:

• [Change] KSP 1.5 compatibility.
• [Fix #238] Multiple RTS dialogs conflict with each other.
• [Fix #239] RTS dialog cannot be moved.
• [Fix #240] RTS-1 doesn't see all the resources on the vessel.
• [Fix #241] RTS-1 doesn't allow passing fuel in the docked.
• [Fix #242] Use resource definition to check if it can be transferred in RTS.
• [Fix #244] GP-20 & BGP-400 are not in the KAS tab in VAB.
• [Fix #246] Timewarp doesn't affect the RTS-1 transfer speed.

Thank you, guys! Your participation in this 1.5 year long endeavour made it possible to release a brand new KAS. If not you, I'd never have it done.

Edited October 21, 2018 by IgorZ

[flart]

Maybe better put KIS and KAS (both) parts to one cck-category? The EVA-Items looks good. Also the category can be added to a CCK-default

Edited October 21, 2018 by flart

[therealcrow999]

6 hours ago, IgorZ said:

So, it's the time! This weekend (pacific time) KAS v1.0 goes live. Below is the list of fixes since RC2, but the version which has the fixes will actually be a main branch release, so it won't be posted in this thread.

1.0:

• [Change] KSP 1.5 compatibility.
• [Fix #238] Multiple RTS dialogs conflict with each other.
• [Fix #239] RTS dialog cannot be moved.
• [Fix #240] RTS-1 doesn't see all the resources on the vessel.
• [Fix #241] RTS-1 doesn't allow passing fuel in the docked.
• [Fix #242] Use resource definition to check if it can be transferred in RTS.
• [Fix #244] GP-20 & BGP-400 are not in the KAS tab in VAB.
• [Fix #246] Timewarp doesn't affect the RTS-1 transfer speed.

Thank you, guys! Your participation in this 1.5 year long endeavour made it possible to release a brand new KAS. If not you, I'd never have it done.

KAS 1.0 this weekend, YES!!!

[Tonka Crash]

32 minutes ago, flart said:

Maybe better put KIS and KAS (both) parts to one cck-category? The EVA-Items looks good. Also the category can be added to a CCK-default

You can do it with your own patch. I use CCK to rearrange a lot of parts. I run the following to move stuff to the EVA category created by KIS:

// Move ladders and all KAS gear to EVA category.
@PART[ladder*,*Ladder*,KAS.*]:FINAL
{
    %category = none 
    %tags = cck-eva-items 
}

 

[IgorZ]

Alas, GitHub has failed today noon, and they are still repairing their servers. In spite of I have all the sources locally and can build the release, I'd rather wait for the GitHub issues to resolve. Given the scope of the changes, I don't want syncing to GitHub now. That said, no release today  

Edited October 22, 2018 by IgorZ

[RealKerbal3x]

22 hours ago, IgorZ said:

So, it's the time! This weekend (pacific time) KAS v1.0 goes live. Below is the list of fixes since RC2, but the version which has the fixes will actually be a main branch release, so it won't be posted in this thread.

1.0:

• [Change] KSP 1.5 compatibility.
• [Fix #238] Multiple RTS dialogs conflict with each other.
• [Fix #239] RTS dialog cannot be moved.
• [Fix #240] RTS-1 doesn't see all the resources on the vessel.
• [Fix #241] RTS-1 doesn't allow passing fuel in the docked.
• [Fix #242] Use resource definition to check if it can be transferred in RTS.
• [Fix #244] GP-20 & BGP-400 are not in the KAS tab in VAB.
• [Fix #246] Timewarp doesn't affect the RTS-1 transfer speed.

Thank you, guys! Your participation in this 1.5 year long endeavour made it possible to release a brand new KAS. If not you, I'd never have it done.

Woooo! KAS 1.0! 

4 hours ago, IgorZ said:

Alas, GitHub has failed today noon, and they are still repairing their servers. In spite of I have all the sources locally and can build the release, I'd rather wait for the GitHub issues to resolve. Given the scope of the changes, I don't want syncing to GitHub now. That said, no release today  

We can wait, don’t worry

[Stevie_D]

Yeah, its better to get it out how you want it, Igor, than to rush it. Us grateful peeps don't mind waiting for good mods.

Although i still feel an urge to shake my pitchfork at Github.... hehe