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[1.4+] BETA: Kerbal Attachment System (KAS) v1.0 Release Candidate 1


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1 hour ago, Aelfhe1m said:

Just loaded up a test instance with just OSE, KAS 1.0 and dependencies. The JS-1, TB-60, TJ-1 and TJ-2 are in the structural tab of the workshop:

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2drPX9Z.jpg

 

Thanks much Aelfhe1m, no wonder i missed it, my struct tab is really swamped and must have mistaken it for another part. Was expecting it to be in with Utilities or Couplings.

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  • 3 weeks later...

ooo, a new and improved KAS! shiny! KAS has become a KSP essential, so seeing it getting a major overhaul is great news.

With the tow bar parts, I saw earlier in the thread that there'd be issues if there wasn't a hinge at both ends, but would it be possible to have a "lock" option which would prevent one end from moving? Might make towing more useful.

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Beta7 (2017-10-26):

  • [Fix #214] TJ1 & TJ2 don't restore the renderers state on load.
  • [Fix #178] The name of the source vessel is not persisted on (un)link.
  • [Enhancement] Allow TJ-1 & TJ-2 to link to the same vessel.
  • [Enhancement] Implement the "set docked" GUI event in the TJ-1 & TJ-2 parts.

 

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  • 1 month later...

Ive noticed a bug with my recently built Mun Base, every time the vehicle is unloaded and reloaded (like going to the space center and back) the connections for the TJ1 are disconnected with a red message that says that they could not be restored. is this a known bug? the worse part is you cant just re attach them, the female ports the they were previously connected to do not highlight although others do. I can get around it by attaching 2 female ports for every male, so there is always an alternative to connect to. However that can get quite tedious in larger operations.

EaWo5DL.png

Edited by Not Sure
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  • 2 months later...
On 12/3/2017 at 2:02 PM, Not Sure said:

Ive noticed a bug with my recently built Mun Base, every time the vehicle is unloaded and reloaded (like going to the space center and back) the connections for the TJ1 are disconnected with a red message that says that they could not be restored. is this a known bug? the worse part is you cant just re attach them, the female ports the they were previously connected to do not highlight although others do. I can get around it by attaching 2 female ports for every male, so there is always an alternative to connect to. However that can get quite tedious in larger operations.

EaWo5DL.png

Sorry for missing this post. December was a pretty loaded month :) As for the issue, there are two parts here:

  1. The joint get destroyed on load. A pretty usual thing for KAS :(  However, it comes from the game's implementation. If you give me a save file with the basic parts only, I'll retest it on the latest build.
  2. The port doesn't detect the link breakage. This is already addressed and will be released in the next version.
Edited by IgorZ
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Here it is!

KAS v1.0 Beta 8 release:

  • Full support for the winches (only W-1 for now).
  • Winches remote control: by default is activated via "Alt+P".
  • Many improvements in the physics and logic.

This version is completely incompatible with the previous versions. Your previous save files won't work.

As of now, the only part that is missing is the resource transfer station (RTS-1). Once it's done, the full feature parity with the  KAS 0.6.* will be achieved. Once it happens, the old KAS will become legacy.

BTW, I post a bit more content in Patreon. So if you, by a chance, are willing to monitor the progress, you may want subscribing there :)

Edited by IgorZ
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4 hours ago, theonegalen said:

Which version of KSP is the new beta for?

KSP 1.4. And thanks for the reminder, I'll change the title.

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On 3/11/2018 at 11:40 PM, IgorZ said:

 

This version is completely incompatible with the previous versions. Your previous save files won't work.

does that mean that saves are not usable from the previous beta 6, or 7 version? (ie, my otherwise fully updated 1.3.1 game save)

or does this mean saves from pre -KAS v1.0 Beta anything .. are incompatable?

 

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2 minutes ago, Fyrem said:

does that mean that saves are not usable from the previous beta 6, or 7 version? (ie, my otherwise fully updated 1.3.1 game save)

or does this mean saves from pre -KAS v1.0 Beta anything .. are incompatable?

Both :) Simply put, if you install the newest beta, forget about any previous saves. No matter which version of KSP they were made in. I know it's annoying, but that's the reason why it's beta. I would never release a product with no backwards compatibility.

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2 minutes ago, Acvila said:

is there any eva vehicle to help kerbals moving heavier parts?

it's a question for KIS, since KAS doesn't deal with the weights moving :) But while I'm here: no, there is no such a vehicle. Your best bet is changing the distance/mass limits via the settings file.

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1 minute ago, IgorZ said:

it's a question for KIS, since KAS doesn't deal with the weights moving :) But while I'm here: no, there is no such a vehicle. Your best bet is changing the distance/mass limits via the settings file.

Ok, thanks!

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On 20/3/2018 at 7:06 AM, Acvila said:

is there any eva vehicle to help kerbals moving heavier parts?

If you need more lifting ability, RoverDudes Konstruction! mod has several PAL cranes and lifters. Apart from being cool, they also argument the lifting ability of nearby Kerbals on EVA when using KIS. (IgorZ, sorry for spamming your thread:sealed:)

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@IgorZ The new KAS is looking great, can't wait to try it out. :) I also have a question about attachment nodes and rotating them. It's not a bug, just a "how do I" kind of thing. I'm making a crane that can rotate. It's a single part; I just rotate the mesh transforms. What I want to do it attach a KAS winch to the end of the crane so that when you rotate the arm, the KAS winch rotates with it. Right now I don't know how to do that, and I'm hoping you might shed some light on my question. Here's an illustration:

Is it possible to rotate the attachment node along with the mesh transform? If not, is there a way for me to set up the crane so that it can use the KAS winch part module that you created?

More illustration if it helps. This is the mesh hierarchy of the crane:

KDfyNoJ.png

Link to my KerbalActuators in case you're curious:

https://github.com/Angel-125/KerbalActuators

Thanks for your help! :)

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IgorZ

I have been using KAS/KIS for the ful duration of my time on Kerbal, and love that you took it over when Kospy needed someone to take it over. 

I have been lapse in my forum time and just saw this. I want to be sure I understand KAS Beta will be a full rewrite and and replacement for KAS? If so... damn man, you are ambitious. I look forward to seeing the end product.

Was wondering what the end game is... Single MOD KAS to replace kis/kas

I will be setting up a separate install of 1.4.x to help testing as I can (I have an unfortunate lack of digi art and coding skills). Keep up the great work and hope I can help.

Fitz

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On 3/28/2018 at 9:16 AM, Angel-125 said:

Is it possible to rotate the attachment node along with the mesh transform?

Rotating of the attach node won't give what you need, it only tells the position of the linked part in the editor. In flight the parts are linked via the PhysX joints. If you want an attached part to follow your arm movements, you have to deal with the physical joint that keeps the arm and the part together. And it's not trivial. I'm afraid this topic cannot be explained in a short forum message. Try reading about the generic things in Unity: rigidbody and joint. Once you fully understand the concept, the next challenge would be figuring out how it works in KSP. In the game one part has only one rigidbody. Knowing how the joints are working, you'll understand why your simple transform rotations has no effect on the attached parts. In the end, you'll get hit by a thing called "kinematic": the simulated physics and scripted transform movements don't live in peace with each other. I guarantee, you'll get many hours debugging the behavior :) As I did when turning the winch: its cable link is physical, but the motor simulation is kinematic.

And when you get all the issues solved, you'll face another one: the vessels in KSP don't like be interactive :(  There will be magic required to properly persist and restore a vessel with your arm in the hierarchy. Luckily, this puzzle is already solved in KAS, so when you're ready, I'll just point you at the right code block.

On 3/28/2018 at 9:16 AM, Angel-125 said:

If not, is there a way for me to set up the crane so that it can use the KAS winch part module that you created?

You can add the winch module to your part and make it working as a "complicated winch". However, it won't solve the main issue: the joint anchor movement. The winch module doesn't track the attach node position change (and no parts are doing it in the game). So you have to implement it yourself.

On 4/1/2018 at 8:35 PM, alacrity said:

I want to be sure I understand KAS Beta will be a full rewrite and and replacement for KAS? If so... damn man, you are ambitious. I look forward to seeing the end product.

Yes, it will be a full rewrite. The legacy parts will stay for a while (may be 3-6 months), and then will be deprecated completely.

On 4/1/2018 at 8:35 PM, alacrity said:

Was wondering what the end game is... Single MOD KAS to replace kis/kas

These mods will stay separate. Each of them alone is too complex and heavy. However, you can expect a tight integration between the two.

Edited by IgorZ
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This is so cool!!

One thing I've always wanted to use KAS for was to anchor craft to asteroids or low-gravity bodies...I seem to run into two problems in the past -

  1. It's hard to get the tension right when I start to retract the anchored harpoons - Will there be a way to set it so that the tension pulls snug but doesn't keep tightening further?
  2. Once I'm anchored reloading the ship can cause RUD - Is there a way to avoid this?

Maybe it exists in the current KAS, but if so i've totally missed it.

Thanks for all the work. Can't wait to use the new KAS

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12 hours ago, Tyko said:

It's hard to get the tension right when I start to retract the anchored harpoons - Will there be a way to set it so that the tension pulls snug but doesn't keep tightening further?

As long as we pretend the physics is real, it cannot be avoided. There are two main rules in zero gravity:

  1. If you want to start moving, you have to apply a force in the direction of the desirable movement. E.g. the force from an engine thrust or the elastic force from a winch cable.
  2. If you want to stop moving, you have to apply a force in the direction, opposite to the movement. The winch cable can only apply force in one direction. Thus,  the accelerated vessel will continue moving towards the target until they collided, or until you've used the engines to negate the momentum of the vessel (and this is what Sir Isaac Newton recommends).

When there is a Gee force, the problem usually doesn't exist due to the winch head is either affected by the drag or by the gravity force.

12 hours ago, Tyko said:

Once I'm anchored reloading the ship can cause RUD - Is there a way to avoid this?

That's how KSP works. When the game loads, all the vessels in the scene are positioned not at the exact locations as they were when saving. Don't ask me why, I can speculate but I don't know the exact answer. It's just how the game works. If two vessels are too close on load, they have a probability to collide due to the wrong orientation/positioning. That's why I never save when there is another vessel within the 20m range (if I were a Squad team member, I'd suggest forbidding saving in such cases). Can it be solved? No. Can it be worked around? Yes! The RTS-1, TJ-1, and TJ2 parts have an option to "merge" the vessels. Normally, in the game, it's called "docked", but in this case you don't actually dock, you simply flip a flag in the context menu, so - "merged". When two vessels are merged, they are treated as a single vessel, and the positioning issue doesn't exist. If you forget to merge the vessel before saving, then, of course, you'll awake Kraken. And that's why you should keep your memory fresh :)

Btw, I'm totally opened to any ideas. I'm not saying that I'll implement any crazy idea, but brainstorming from the community can really help.

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31 minutes ago, IgorZ said:
13 hours ago, Tyko said:

It's hard to get the tension right when I start to retract the anchored harpoons - Will there be a way to set it so that the tension pulls snug but doesn't keep tightening further?

As long as we pretend the physics is real, it cannot be avoided. There are two main rules in zero gravity:

  1. If you want to start moving, you have to apply a force in the direction of the desirable movement. E.g. the force from an engine thrust or the elastic force from a winch cable.
  2. If you want to stop moving, you have to apply a force in the direction, opposite to the movement. The winch cable can only apply force in one direction. Thus,  the accelerated vessel will continue moving towards the target until they collided, or until you've used the engines to negate the momentum of the vessel (and this is what Sir Isaac Newton recommends).

When there is a Gee force, the problem usually doesn't exist due to the winch head is either affected by the drag or by the gravity force.

Thanks for the explanation. If the winch is reeling in, pulling the craft to the surface, at some point the body of the craft will come in contact with the surface. It is at this point that I was hoping the winch would stop pulling. Not sure if the winch can "feel" the resistance increase when the craft can't be pulled further - this would probably be necessary.

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4 minutes ago, Tyko said:

Thanks for the explanation. If the winch is reeling in, pulling the craft to the surface, at some point the body of the craft will come in contact with the surface. It is at this point that I was hoping the winch would stop pulling. Not sure if the winch can "feel" the resistance increase when the craft can't be pulled further - this would probably be necessary.

If you're talking about asteroids, then it's a "zero G situation", see above about the rules: winch only gives the initial momentum, it doesn't matter what it will do afterwards - something else has to negate the momentum. If you're talking about a real celestial body, then the vessel will be going towards the surface due to the G force of the celestial body, and you don't need a winch to make it happen :)

Just go to space, attach a winch to some vessel, start the motor and then immediately stop. You'll see that the vessel continues approaching, regardless to the fact that the winch motor is stopped. This is exactly what would happen if you were doing it in the real space.

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