Space Corporation mode

[Legendary Emu]

In a world where every planet has been visited by Kerbalkind, the satellite network is old news, and the renowned Kerbal Space Program has been hamstrung by lack of funds and public support. But the space age is not done yet. Valuable metals and minerals lie in waiting across the solar system, ready to be dug up and sold to the highest bidder, and world governments are prepared forgo old treaties in order to claim a part of a planet as their own. You, the CEO of an up-and-coming commercial space program, must rise to the challenge and conquer the stars. Pave the way for space colonization by building fuel depots, mining stations, planetary cyclers, and make a bit of money at it, too.

I kind of got carried away with the writing bit but anyways... What would you guys think of a game mode where you start in the late game of career mode? There would be new ores and new parts, but science wouldn't be the main focus of the game. Maybe you would have to buy new technologies like nuclear engines or VASIMR or other things like that. Discuss!

[Wjolcz]

That's pretty much what I wanted since the dawn of ISRU. Except as a playstyle option in the career, not a new mode. You would simply accept programs/missions that asked you to mine ore from a certain place and bring it back home (Kerbin) for profit.

E: it wouldn't even be a new type of contract. Just a simple tweak to the ore hauling ones with the target set to LKO/Kerbin landed. I mean, we are asked to haul tanks full of ore to places that don't even have ISRU processing units. The objectives are just random. Why not set the permanent main objective to be focused in the vicinity of Kerbin? Not like ore can be recovered for profit, or anything. It's literally dirt cheap. Because it's, uh... dirt.

Edited October 18, 2016 by Veeltch

[Legendary Emu]

You could have contracts to ship x amount of fuel/water/hopesndreams to x colony, instead of just shipping to kerbin or a random place.

[LordKael]

In addition, a "Space Corp" mode could be responsible for maintaining colonies already set up when the game starts, hard coded into the game. For instance, getting a contract to establish a trade route between Duna and Eve that cycles 5 times in 5 years or something. 

[razark]

I can't say your idea strikes me as something I'd like to play, but the presentation is good.  Reminds me of what I used to read on the back of boxes in the game store, back when games came with manuals and keyboard overlays.

[Legendary Emu]

12 hours ago, razark said:

I can't say your idea strikes me as something I'd like to play, but the presentation is good.  Reminds me of what I used to read on the back of boxes in the game store, back when games came with manuals and keyboard overlays.

Thanks! I do agree that it's not for everyone. Trading games are always pretty niche, and KSP is niche enough as it is.

[ZentroCatson]

That sounds interesting. I would imagine it being something like career mode, but instead you build out a company, first starting at cargo shuttles, then building cargo depots in space, making crewed shuttle flights, capturing asteroids for mining resources and building colonies on other worlds. That would be quite awesome, your base of operations can be moved from Kerbin to space at a certain time, so you'll have to focus more on spaceships and less on launchers.

Though it would require a lot of coding, there would need to be other companies with their pre-built space stations and bases aswell as new game mechanics. It could be made into an expansion pack, I would gladly pay 10$ for something like that. What do you think?

Edited October 19, 2016 by ZentroCatson

[Darnok]

20 hours ago, Veeltch said:

You would simply accept programs/missions that asked you to mine ore from a certain place and bring it back home (Kerbin) for profit.

 

IMO new contracts that would ask players to bring NEW TYPE of resources, rare, expensive and finite in single game scope, so people wouldn't be able to grind single spot to infinity $.

In multiplayer finite resources would create realistic space race what would give early, middle and late game in each new game unique scenarios. Adding to this rare-resources spots should be random (and not only on asteroids) 

Also "market price" of each resource type shouldn't be static, so if few people in multiplayer starts to mine same resource type its price would be lower, because those resources would be less rare.
You as competition could earn more money by searching new type of resources on undiscovered spots and deliver them first for higher price.

Edited October 19, 2016 by Darnok

[Wjolcz]

10 minutes ago, Darnok said:

IMO new contracts that would ask players to bring NEW TYPE of resources, rare, expensive and finite in single game scope, so people wouldn't be able to grind single spot to infinity $.

In multiplayer finite resources would create realistic space race what would give early, middle and late game in each new game unique scenarios if rare-resources spots would be random (and not only on asteroids) 

Also "market price" of each resource type shouldn't be static, so if few people in multiplayer starts to mine same resource type its price would be lower, because those resources would be less rare.
You as competition could earn more money by searching new type of resources on undiscovered spots and deliver them first for higher price.

To reply to the first part: contracts would be a one time thing just like they are now, so no problem with exploiting the resource-rich spots. You are asked to bring X units of ore from planet Y back to Kerbin. You land, recover it and the contract is gone until a new one appears. No room for any kind of exploit. No need for new resources. It's that simple. A new resource would actually be waaaay more prone to exploits than the contracts.

The second part about a market in MP: as much as I would love to have it, the problem with markets is that they can be exploited very easily. In GTA V there is a market only in singleplayer simply because there was a way in MP to destabilize it and earn tons and tons of money by investing almost nothing.

So it's not that hard to implement. A simple tweak to one kind of contract. It's just that devs never bothered to do that, for some odd reason. Somehow randomly generated contracts are superior than the ones that actually make sense.

Edited October 19, 2016 by Veeltch

[Darnok]

I don't know how GTA V market works, but I doubt it you can destabilize good implementation. Look at Eve online, there is lots of people and free market it works quite well for few years without any server wipe?

[Wjolcz]

19 minutes ago, Darnok said:

I don't know how GTA V market works, but I doubt it you can destabilize good implementation. Look at Eve online, there is lots of people and free market it works quite well for few years without any server wipe?

Well, then the answer is probably it's very hard to implement in a way it works without any major problems. EVE Online is a much older game than GTA Online. The devs of EVE had a lot more time to work on it and find the right way to do this. I wouldn't count on SQUAD doing the same. They lack the time and devs. At least right now.

I also don't think comparing the two is a good idea. In GTA there's only one resource to deal with: you invest money and get more or lose some. Not sure how the market works in EVE, but you probably throw the resources in and their price goes down? I guess that's doable. Dunno.

I've just changed my mind twice in one post. I don't care. Have some bits of my thought processes. They don't happen often.

Edited October 19, 2016 by Veeltch

[Darnok]

16 minutes ago, Veeltch said:

Well, then the answer is probably it's very hard to implement in a way it works without any major problems. EVE Online is a much older game than GTA Online. The devs of EVE had a lot more time to work on it and find the right way to do this. I wouldn't count on SQUAD doing the same. They lack the time and devs. At least right now.

I also don't think comparing the two is a good idea. In GTA there's only one resource to deal with: you invest money and get more or lose some. Not sure how the market works in EVE, but you probably throw the resources in and their price goes down? I guess that's doable. Dunno.

I've just changed my mind twice in one post. I don't care. Have some bits of my thought processes. They don't happen often.

Implementation of free market is super simple...

Player A set price for resource X
Players B, C and D buys some amount of resource X
Player A set new higher price for same amount of X, because of profit
Player B and D buys some amount, but Player C refuses to buy X
Player C thinks he can earn money by mining and selling X what starts competition on market
Now Players B and D have a choice and they will buy X for lower price
(amount of resource X available on market is increased and Player A have to lower price if he wants to sell more)

[Wjolcz]

8 minutes ago, Darnok said:

Implementation of free market is super simple...

Player A set price for resource X
Players B, C and D buys some amount of resource X
Player A set new higher price for same amount of X, because of profit
Player B and D buys some amount, but Player C refuses to buy X
Player C thinks he can earn money by mining and selling X what starts competition on market
Now Players B and D have a choice and they will buy X for lower price
(amount of resource X available on market is increased and Player A have to lower price if he wants to sell more)

The problem is when two players decide to control the market and just switch the prices from high to low and from low to high so each of them can make money. Or setting them as high as the competition because people are greedy and dumb. In such a situation the market would become obsolete because everyone instead of buying anything would just go and mine it themselves.

Anyway, it's nice to think about all the possibilities and considering what would happen if, but I don't think a free market will ever happen in KSP. I don't even think multiplayer will ever be implemented because of how complex it is to implement in a game that was never designed for it. It's cool and all, but I've burst my bubble of hopes and dreams some time ago. Now I'm waiting for the development to stop so I can finally mod the game and keep it that way for a long time.

Edited October 19, 2016 by Veeltch

[Darnok]

21 minutes ago, Veeltch said:

The problem is when two players decide to control the market and just switch the prices from high to low and from low to high so each of them can make money. Or setting them as high as the competition because people are greedy and dumb.

 

Free market regulates itself.

If Player A and C starts to switching prices to high values its only create opportunity for other players to start mining resource.
If they would lower prices then other players would stop mining and amount of resource on market would fall, also they wouldn't be able to do that for too long since other players would make more money simply mining other resources and having larger profits.

 

Quote

In such a situation the market would become obsolete because everyone instead of buying anything would just go and mine it themselves.

That is why we need few different resources. Equipment for each of them should be different and mining plus searching new spots for all of resources would require lots of investments. Also I mentioned that spots of resources should be finite, so nobody would be able to lower prices too much since they need money for moving to new mining site... once they explore this site what also costs money.

Space race would be for profits not for ability to mine all kind of things there are.

[Legendary Emu]

What about multiphase contracts? Maybe a specific government dishes out some Duna colony contracts to different people. One guy gets contracted to build the shell of the colony, and another gets contracted to put in equipment, another guy to transport people back and forth to it. It could be fun if there were also race contracts where the first person to get a colony up gets a lot of money.

[LordKael]

1 hour ago, Legendary Emu said:

What about multiphase contracts? Maybe a specific government dishes out some Duna colony contracts to different people. One guy gets contracted to build the shell of the colony, and another gets contracted to put in equipment, another guy to transport people back and forth to it. It could be fun if there were also race contracts where the first person to get a colony up gets a lot of money.

Or, even implementing a system of "Okay, now that you've done a contract to establish a colony on Duna for Company A, Company B would like the exact same set up on another part of Duna, and is willing to match what the first company paid". That's how the real market works, and would give incentive for players to come up with cheaper ways of achieving identical goals to improve profit margins. Thats how progress happens