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If I have a vanilla game - which I do - and have a bug problem - which I don't (So it's all hypothetical) then Squad will look into the problem.

If I also have a modded game - which I do - and have a bug problem - which I don't (So it's still all hypothetical) then squad will say "Not with a barge-pole mate!" and will not look into the problem.

What if I have a modded game - which I do (in case you forgot) - and have a bug problem - which I don't (So even now we are still being hypothetical) and what if I ripped out all the mods from this modded game and then presented the still present (hypothetical) bug to squad, would this be touched with a barge-pole? Would the save game itself, having been tainted by mods still make it untouchable regardless of barge-pole length?

Just wondering.. you know.. hypothetically.. can I de-taint a save game enough that squad will hug it and welcome it home and forgive it for getting tainted in the first place?

Thoughts of the masses?

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Well, i sort of recently came across this issue.....via the Ui flicker issue, is it modded or stock issue? Turned out it was stock, however, i did ask what we could do to help solve it, but didnt recieve decisive reply really.

im surprised there hasnt been a 'procedure' devised (accepted by all) to follow, in such cases, itd certainly help with mis-information and community not wasting their time with methods not accepted by squad etc would also save mod developers headache with false claims etc

not to mention cutting back on everyones frustrations :wink: community & squads. 

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Interesting question.

I believe that there is a chance that when a mod is removed it could, in some cases, still leave 'traces' of it's former presence.  Which could mean that an apparently clean install is in fact not so, thereby giving a false impression of a problem with a stock game.

During 1.2 pre-testing Squad asked for bugs to be verified on pure clean installs that never had mods to avoid this issue.

Whether or not the 'warranty' is rendered null and void I really wouldn't know, but I would imagine they could legitimately use it as a 'get out clause' should they wish.  If reporting stock issues then it is sensible to verify on a clean install anyway.  Also give all the information about the issue with installed and removed mods too, every little helps.

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Even if you clean out GameData, there are many mods that add persistent data to the save and many more that change or add modules to stock parts - these 'tainted' parts remain on any craft in the save.
So I'd say "stock" == clean GameData + fresh save file.

Doesn't mean saves from modded games are completely useless, but you'll almost certinly be asked to repro any issues in a new save. Testing with a clean save in a clean environment is kinda step one for bug reporting anyway.

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One of the beautiful things about the game is how easy it is to add a mod. Drag and drop - done.

Unfortunately, if it's a mod which writes a module to your savegame,  when you delete the folder you dragged in and then run the game again, the game amputates the module from the save but leaves a bloody stump. A jam and chocolatey fingerprint that anyone can point to and shout Taint!

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The standard procedure is to reproduce the bug in a stock game/save before reporting. If the problem cannot be reproduced that way then it will understandably be a lower priority.

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If you removed all mods AND (hypothetically) in doing so it removed all traces of them from the save, then it would probably be accepted in a bug report.
BUT even if you are certain that all mods have been removed and there is no trace of them left, and you can still reproduce the error, what if the mod(s) left some subtle change to a stock config or variable and that was the cause of the bug.  In that case you'd just be wasting the developers time.  

So even if it is possible to clean all mods out of a save you should still see if it can be repeated on a pure stock install, and actually, not just a stock install, but a fresh install with a fresh save containing only the bare minimum needed to replicate the issue.

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43 minutes ago, katateochi said:

BUT even if you are certain that all mods have been removed and there is no trace of them left, and you can still reproduce the error, what if the mod(s) left some subtle change to a stock config or variable and that was the cause of the bug

 

Clearing out all your mods and any trace is as simple as deleting ALL the mods and the MM cfg cache files, and then deleting all the ships that have mod parts fitted, as trying to load those produces errors that would not be seen in a completely stock game.  It's been a long time since mods rewrote physical cfg's or values  , it's all done with MM these days.

 

 

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Just now, SpannerMonkey(smce) said:

Clearing out all your mods and any trace is as simple as deleting ALL the mods and the MM cfg cache files, and then deleting all the ships that have mod parts fitted, as trying to load those produces errors that would not be seen in a completely stock game.  It's been a long time since mods rewrote physical cfg's or values  , it's all done with MM these days.

When I said stock config or variable, I wasn't being clear, I meant a variable or set of configurations in the save file. And there's quite a bit written to the .sfs files by various mods. 

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Just now, katateochi said:

When I said stock config or variable, I wasn't being clear, I meant a variable or set of configurations in the save file. And there's quite a bit written to the .sfs files by various mods. 

Very true you certainly can't load a modded save in a stock game without  issues. and doing so would not produce a stock game, so included to be removed are any saves made with a modded game.

I'd like to bet this situation would never arise though, with a bug found in a modded game still being present in a new stock save, that said mods do push the game harder than the designers intended, so while the bug may still be there you would not be able to trigger it, such is the world of edge case bugs

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