[Minimum KSP: 1.12.2] Heisenberg - Airships Part Pack

[dboi88]

1 hour ago, lBoBl said:

Hi there,

This mod is a ton of fun. However I'm having performance issues with the bison gondola parts. I have a heavily modded install so that could come from conflicts with another mod. In flight, nothing pops in the console except normal airpark messages. In the SPH I get a lot more messages but still no exceptions or warnings.

However just a single bison part (command pods are the worst) will impact my framerate in an almost imperceptible manner, but the effect increases exponentially. If I just stack 20 command cabs in SPH I drop to 2 fps and it takes forever just to be able to click them and delete them. And a normal craft with something like 10 bison parts will make my clock run yellow inflight and have a not smooth at all framerate.

Also, some of the USI modules don't work properly, notably the GondoHab living module which just doesn't, making me have to add regular USI parts to get my hab timer to a reasonnable level.

Has someone else encountered this kind of problems ? Let me know if I should upload a log file. 

First step whenever you encounter a problem on a heavily modded install is to recreate the issues with stock and a fresh up to date download of the mod in question with no other mods installed. If that doesn't have the same issues start adding mods back until you get the issues again.

There is very little a mod author can do until you've shown it's present without other mods installed. If it turns out to be a mod conflict the author can then quickly decide if it's an issue they want to deal with or not.

 

@Angel-125 I don't recognise the MM format of the patch for the Gondola Habs, i'm not sure if they are correct or not  

[panarchist]

2 hours ago, dboi88 said:

First step whenever you encounter a problem on a heavily modded install is to recreate the issues with stock and a fresh up to date download of the mod in question with no other mods installed. If that doesn't have the same issues start adding mods back until you get the issues again.

There is very little a mod author can do until you've shown it's present without other mods installed. If it turns out to be a mod conflict the author can then quickly decide if it's an issue they want to deal with or not.

@Angel-125 I don't recognise the MM format of the patch for the Gondola Habs, i'm not sure if they are correct or not  

And the second step is to try it only with Heisenberg + RPM + the ASET dependencies. The command pods all have ASET props, and depending on the age of one's machine, they can sometimes have a non-trivial impact on frame rate. The dependencies need to be up to date.

There's actually a lot that mod makers *can* do to troubleshoot, but troubleshooting takes time, (which is time spent NOT working on their mod) and it's unreasonable to expect a mod maker to load up 50+ mods to find interaction issues. (and very few mod makers are willing to do that - understandably) They rely on mod users to do their due diligence when reporting issues - NathanKell did an awesome post here: 

 

Edited September 15, 2017 by panarchist

[lBoBl]

No problem, I'll do further testing as soon as I have time but I just wanted to make sure that this wasn't a common not-really-an-issue thingy.

The USI-LS modules seem to be outdated though. I've managed to get them to work by modifying the MM_USI.cfg, basically replacing the old modules by copy-pasting some fresh ones from USI LS part cfgs. The habitation module on the GondoHab still doesn't work properly though, it shows up in the USI-LS window in the SPH as an hab, but I can't activate it in-flight because I have no button in the part's right-click menu.

So I'm pretty sure the recycler for the command pods needs to be uptdated, and the GondoGarden's Greenhouse module could be replaced with Agroponics, because greenhouses in USI don't produce anything on their own anymore, they are just here to boost the productivity of other parts, and if I remember correctly Argoponics modules now do what the greenhouses used to do although I'm not 100% sure about that. I don't know if there's anything more to be done for the GondoHab. I'll also test all of that on a clean install just to be sure.

Also, just a little suggestion : since some parts have some support for EPL, wouldn't it be cool to add a survey station module to the GondOffice ? I did it in a previous install and it worked fine for me (I did not re-do it in my current install so that can't be what is causing the low fps, and I also had not modified the usi-ls modules when I reported, I just tried that right now). I know that some people find survey stations too cheaty and even more unrealistic than the rest of EPL so I understand if that's a deliberate choice not to include one.

Edited September 15, 2017 by lBoBl

[Krakatoa]

3 hours ago, lBoBl said:

No problem, I'll do further testing as soon as I have time but I just wanted to make sure that this wasn't a common not-really-an-issue thingy.

The USI-LS modules seem to be outdated though. I've managed to get them to work by modifying the MM_USI.cfg, basically replacing the old modules by copy-pasting some fresh ones from USI LS part cfgs. The habitation module on the GondoHab still doesn't work properly though, it shows up in the USI-LS window in the SPH as an hab, but I can't activate it in-flight because I have no button in the part's right-click menu.

So I'm pretty sure the recycler for the command pods needs to be uptdated, and the GondoGarden's Greenhouse module could be replaced with Agroponics, because greenhouses in USI don't produce anything on their own anymore, they are just here to boost the productivity of other parts, and if I remember correctly Argoponics modules now do what the greenhouses used to do although I'm not 100% sure about that. I don't know if there's anything more to be done for the GondoHab. I'll also test all of that on a clean install just to be sure.

Also, just a little suggestion : since some parts have some support for EPL, wouldn't it be cool to add a survey station module to the GondOffice ? I did it in a previous install and it worked fine for me (I did not re-do it in my current install so that can't be what is causing the low fps, and I also had not modified the usi-ls modules when I reported, I just tried that right now). I know that some people find survey stations too cheaty and even more unrealistic than the rest of EPL so I understand if that's a deliberate choice not to include one.

I know that in general, WBI's patches for USI integration are way out of date because Angel doesn't use 'em and doesn't care to keep it constantly updated. He's stated before that anyone that cares to do the tweaks and submit a PR on github is more than free to do so, though, and maybe the coding for making it a hab can be figured out. For the GondOffice survey station, I made my own template to turn the centrifuge from DSEV into an almost all-in-one EPL resource chain, and it isn't terribly difficult to make an MM patch to give a part another module, so maybe that or an EPL template for your GondOffice would be a good idea?

[Angelo Kerman]

4 hours ago, lBoBl said:

No problem, I'll do further testing as soon as I have time but I just wanted to make sure that this wasn't a common not-really-an-issue thingy.

The USI-LS modules seem to be outdated though. I've managed to get them to work by modifying the MM_USI.cfg, basically replacing the old modules by copy-pasting some fresh ones from USI LS part cfgs. The habitation module on the GondoHab still doesn't work properly though, it shows up in the USI-LS window in the SPH as an hab, but I can't activate it in-flight because I have no button in the part's right-click menu.

So I'm pretty sure the recycler for the command pods needs to be uptdated, and the GondoGarden's Greenhouse module could be replaced with Agroponics, because greenhouses in USI don't produce anything on their own anymore, they are just here to boost the productivity of other parts, and if I remember correctly Argoponics modules now do what the greenhouses used to do although I'm not 100% sure about that. I don't know if there's anything more to be done for the GondoHab. I'll also test all of that on a clean install just to be sure.

Also, just a little suggestion : since some parts have some support for EPL, wouldn't it be cool to add a survey station module to the GondOffice ? I did it in a previous install and it worked fine for me (I did not re-do it in my current install so that can't be what is causing the low fps, and I also had not modified the usi-ls modules when I reported, I just tried that right now). I know that some people find survey stations too cheaty and even more unrealistic than the rest of EPL so I understand if that's a deliberate choice not to include one.

The Bision Airlock module also serves as an EL Survey Station. It's the part with a crew hatch on the back.

[lBoBl]

9 hours ago, Krakatoa said:

I know that in general, WBI's patches for USI integration are way out of date because Angel doesn't use 'em and doesn't care to keep it constantly updated. He's stated before that anyone that cares to do the tweaks and submit a PR on github is more than free to do so, though, and maybe the coding for making it a hab can be figured out. For the GondOffice survey station, I made my own template to turn the centrifuge from DSEV into an almost all-in-one EPL resource chain, and it isn't terribly difficult to make an MM patch to give a part another module, so maybe that or an EPL template for your GondOffice would be a good idea?

I could make the PR on github. I'd like to figure out why I'm not getting any "start hab" button though, I'll try a few more things. Btw, can I find the default templates somewhere ? Maybe if I edited the GODOHAB one I could get satisfying results. But that's a big maybe as I don't know what's currently in it

 

8 hours ago, Angel-125 said:

The Bision Airlock module also serves as an EL Survey Station. It's the part with a crew hatch on the back.

Kool ! Guess I just didn't notice

[Krakatoa]

8 minutes ago, lBoBl said:

I could make the PR on github. I'd like to figure out why I'm not getting any "start hab" button though, I'll try a few more things. Btw, can I find the default templates somewhere ? Maybe if I edited the GODOHAB one I could get satisfying results. But that's a big maybe as I don't know what's currently in it

 

Kool ! Guess I just didn't notice

This is from the Pathfinder wiki, but it's all the same in how it calls on things.

Knowledge for power
I don't use USI-LS, so I'm unfortunately not the person to have a good answer about how to get its modules working.

[lBoBl]

12 minutes ago, Krakatoa said:

This is from the Pathfinder wiki, but it's all the same in how it calls on things.

Knowledge for power
I don't use USI-LS, so I'm unfortunately not the person to have a good answer about how to get its modules working.

Thanks, I may create my own template then, this will be helpful. But I must admit that I would still be curious to find the default GONDOHAB template... Because everything I can find in Heisenberg/Templates is Battery.cfg, containing a battery template. I have a commomTemplates.cfg under Heisenberg/Parts/Gondola but it just has the GONDOCOMMON empty template. And since the module in MM_USI.cfg is applied to 

@GONDOHAB[GondoHab2,GondoHab]:NEEDS[USILifeSupport]

, I don't really understand why it wouldn't work once updated with a fresh module. I may have missed something on the USI part.

[Krakatoa]

8 hours ago, lBoBl said:

Thanks, I may create my own template then, this will be helpful. But I must admit that I would still be curious to find the default GONDOHAB template... Because everything I can find in Heisenberg/Templates is Battery.cfg, containing a battery template. I have a commomTemplates.cfg under Heisenberg/Parts/Gondola but it just has the GONDOCOMMON empty template. And since the module in MM_USI.cfg is applied to 

@GONDOHAB[GondoHab2,GondoHab]:NEEDS[USILifeSupport]

, I don't really understand why it wouldn't work once updated with a fresh module. I may have missed something on the USI part.

Check the bottom of the cfg for the GondLab2. It has the templates built in to the cfg for the part rather than pulled out into a template folder. You'll notice sections like 

 

GONDOLAB
{
	author = Angel-125
	name = GondoLab
	title = Mobile Processing Lab
	mass = 1.375
	requiredResource = Equipment
	requiredAmount = 550
	reconfigureSkill = ScienceSkill
	logoPanel = WildBlueIndustries/Heisenberg/Decals/MOLELab
	glowPanel = WildBlueIndustries/Heisenberg/Decals/MOLELab
	description = Configured as a Mobile Processing Lab, the GondoLab can perform extensive research on science experiments and clean them for reuse, albiet at reduced capacity compared to the MPL-LG-2 due to its smaller size.
	toolTip = You can clean experiments just like the MPL-LG-2.
	toolTipTitle = Your First Gondola Mobile Processing Lab
	enableMPLModules = true
	ignoreMaterialModifier = true
	templateTags = mole

	MODULE
	{
		name = ModuleKerbNetAccess
		MinimumFoV = 17
		MaximumFoV = 63
		AnomalyDetection = 0
		DISPLAY_MODES
		{
			Mode = Terrain
			Mode = Biome
		}
		REQUIRED_EFFECTS
		{
			Effect = ScienceSkill
		}
	}

	MODULE
	{
		name = WBIDataTransferUtility
	}    	

	MODULE
	{
		name = WBISciLabOpsView
		showOpsView = true
	}
}

 

This is the MPL template for the GondoLab, but it at least shows where the important things are, and you should be able to find the rest of them in the file now that you know what you're looking for.

[lBoBl]

27 minutes ago, Krakatoa said:

Check the bottom of the cfg for the GondLab2. It has the templates built in to the cfg for the part rather than pulled out into a template folder. You'll notice sections like 

 

GONDOLAB
{
	author = Angel-125
	name = GondoLab
	title = Mobile Processing Lab
	mass = 1.375
	requiredResource = Equipment
	requiredAmount = 550
	reconfigureSkill = ScienceSkill
	logoPanel = WildBlueIndustries/Heisenberg/Decals/MOLELab
	glowPanel = WildBlueIndustries/Heisenberg/Decals/MOLELab
	description = Configured as a Mobile Processing Lab, the GondoLab can perform extensive research on science experiments and clean them for reuse, albiet at reduced capacity compared to the MPL-LG-2 due to its smaller size.
	toolTip = You can clean experiments just like the MPL-LG-2.
	toolTipTitle = Your First Gondola Mobile Processing Lab
	enableMPLModules = true
	ignoreMaterialModifier = true
	templateTags = mole

	MODULE
	{
		name = ModuleKerbNetAccess
		MinimumFoV = 17
		MaximumFoV = 63
		AnomalyDetection = 0
		DISPLAY_MODES
		{
			Mode = Terrain
			Mode = Biome
		}
		REQUIRED_EFFECTS
		{
			Effect = ScienceSkill
		}
	}

	MODULE
	{
		name = WBIDataTransferUtility
	}    	

	MODULE
	{
		name = WBISciLabOpsView
		showOpsView = true
	}
}

 

This is the MPL template for the GondoLab, but it at least shows where the important things are, and you should be able to find the rest of them in the file now that you know what you're looking for.

Right, I got confused by the pathfinder module and didn't look below it because I assumed it got to the bottom of the file. My bad. The gondohab template doesn't have a description, but in the link you gave me it says the description is required. Could this be breaking things perhaps ? It also has a toolTipTitle but no ToolTip, i'll try filling those and see if it changes anything.

[Krakatoa]

8 minutes ago, lBoBl said:

Right, I got confused by the pathfinder module and didn't look below it because I assumed it got to the bottom of the file. My bad. The gondohab template doesn't have a description, but in the link you gave me it says the description is required. Could this be breaking things perhaps ? It also has a toolTipTitle but no ToolTip, i'll try filling those and see if it changes anything.

It might, but I just found the relevant part in the GondHab2 file.

 

@MODULE[WBIMultiConverter]
	{
		@name = WBIMultipurposeHab
		allowedTags = moleHab
		@templateNodes = GONDOCOMMON;GONDOHAB;PATH_HABITATION

		efficiency = 0.2
		productivity = 0.2
		materialCostModifier = 0.5
	}

Where it says @templateNodes is where it pulls from other sorts of templates, so you can see it also picks up the Pathfinder Habitation templates. I'm not sure if those empty parts can mess anything up, but I'd just look at one of those pathfinder templates and copy that. So long as it starts with one of those three nodes, the GondoHab will be able to pick it up.

[lBoBl]

I made a fresh install of KSP with just this mod and the required dependencies. (aah, this time when you suddenly realize just how fast stock KSP starts compared to your unreasonable install) 

Unsurprisingly, my super-low framerate issue isn't a thing no matter how many gondo parts I stack together. BUT, I found which of my 2 grillion mods was causing the issue at first try : it's just JSI transparent pods. So, my conclusions regarding this are that @Angel-125 did a great job and JSI adv transparent pods is just laggy (I'll remove it, it's also super glitchy anyways) and there's nothing more to be done...

HOWEVER  ! I found an other issue that seems to be related to this mod (I was able to reproduce it in the basic install with just the required mods). The Half-Side aircraft elevator has a ghost flight deck. I realize that this probably doesn't make sense but sorry, I'm not that good at speaking english. What I mean is that the top, flight deck portion of the part is not solid, the texture is here but anything will just pass right through it, kerbals or other vessels alike. The regular aircraft elevator (not half-side, just the regular size one) works perfectly fine, it's solid and the animation lifts my kerbals/vessels up and down like expected. It's not just the animation that is faulty on the half-side version because I always pass right through it, no matter if it's up or down or even moving. It is kind of painful because it just creates a big hole in my flight deck . Basically everything is working visually, nothing is physically. I hope that's clear enough

I've checked the cfgs of the regular version as well as the half-side one, and they're exactly the same so I think that it is model-related and idk how to edit that, sorry

I'm currently trying to see if my GondoHab is finally working with USI, I'll keep you informed. If everything is working properly for USI would you still like me to make a PR ? I've made it  super clean on my side so it wouldn't take long

Edited September 17, 2017 by lBoBl

[lBoBl]

Allright I got all the gondola modules now compatible and up to date with USI-LS.

I removed old deprecated resources, replaced the old non-working converters with some new ones (they are now basically the same MM patches that USI LS applies to stock parts). All of this sits in the MM_USI.cfg but I also added a new template for the gondoffice, to provide a different kind of living space. Basically how the USI ls hab system works is that living quarters (parts your kerbal sleep in etc.) add extra months, and the shared spaces and everything to admire the view (cuppolas, etc.) increase the hab multiplier. So I treated the gondohab as crew quarters (like an hitchiker cab) and the gondoffice as shared space (like a Cuppola). For the supplies, I made tweaks to the recyclers who were already present but outdated, I did not change their rates and just got them working. I replaced the greenhouse module for an agroponics module on the GondoGarden which will actually produce some supplies (very slowly though) and added an extra recycler to the lab (since the stock one has one, I copy-pasted the module).

So apart from the new template for the gondoffice all I did was modifying MM_USI.cfg

[lBoBl]

BTW if anyone wants to see big airships on some kind of Titan analog, take a look near the end of my GPP career album

 

[Krakatoa]

I've been having a little issue with the Gondola landing legs. I've tried to include them a few times on landers, but invariably (at least on the Mun or Minmus), when it lands, it does this jittery dance and the legs keep getting shoved around, slowly spinning the craft in a circle and sometimes keeping the drills from staying in the ground.  I end up raising the legs and letting this particular miner just sit on the ground on a docking port.  Are they supposed to be used in conjunction with an anchor piece? Or do they need a much heavier load to sit still?

[Angelo Kerman]

On 9/23/2017 at 2:07 PM, Krakatoa said:

I've been having a little issue with the Gondola landing legs. I've tried to include them a few times on landers, but invariably (at least on the Mun or Minmus), when it lands, it does this jittery dance and the legs keep getting shoved around, slowly spinning the craft in a circle and sometimes keeping the drills from staying in the ground.  I end up raising the legs and letting this particular miner just sit on the ground on a docking port.  Are they supposed to be used in conjunction with an anchor piece? Or do they need a much heavier load to sit still?

The legs aren't really meant as landing gear, they were made to lift up the body so that you could slip a chassis underneath. I haven't gotten around to making them full fledged landing gear yet.

[Krakatoa]

6 minutes ago, Angel-125 said:

The legs aren't really meant as landing gear, they were made to lift up the body so that you could slip a chassis underneath. I haven't gotten around to making them full fledged landing gear yet.

Hahahah, ooooh. That makes a lot more sense. Thanks!

[Angelo Kerman]

Heisenberg 2.8.6 is now available:

- All configurable parts now require an Engineer to reconfigure instead of a mix of Engineer and Scientist.
- Fixed issues with CompressedAir RCS thrusters that resulted from the latest CRP update.
- Play mode support added.
- CRP is now a separate download.
- Added support for Classic Stock play mode and Pristine mode.
- Updated to KSP 1.3.1.

[panarchist]

Teaser for the flight operations writeup. (yes, I am still working on it)

Sent ASC-01 Amelia Kerman out from KSC for flight operations:

The Amelia Kerman had just finished a recent shipyard maintenance period, and had flown to KSC to pick up the soon-to-be embarked air wing. As part of preparations to receive aircraft onboard, the call went out over the 1MC for everyone to muster on the flight deck for FOD walkdown.

A FOD walkdown is where all available aircrew and deck hands walk the length of the flight deck from bow to stern to find any stray bolts, screws, pebbles, chunks of non-skid that have broken off the flight deck, or any other Foreign Object which could Damage (FOD) an aircraft engine, or be flung at high speed down the deck to damage aircraft or gear, or injure crewpersons. Most crew don't enjoy FOD walkdowns - they get tedious, and they must be performed daily, sometimes twice a day, in any and all weather conditions. Typically, the FOD walkdown involves most of the available crew at the start, because many show up late, or are rousted and made to go up on deck by senior enlisted people (Petty Officers) until there are 2 or 3 successive lines of crew walking down the deck. A couple officers usually walk backwards near the front of the line to manage all the people, and 1 or 2 run back and forth with trash bags to collect anything that people find on the deck.

In general, this is pretty tedious to simulate in KSP, but it does make for some pretty pictures. If the airship is airparked with engines running, the whole line will appear to slowly move aft, which actually looks a LOT like the real thing. FOD walkdowns move at less than 1mph, the objective is to check the entire deck surface and inside all of the padeyes.

Once the aircraft are on-board, FOD walkdowns continue to be performed each day prior to flight operations. On days with a high OPTEMPO (Operations tempo - rate of sorties), there may be two sets of flight operations, one starting about 7am, and another in the evening - each "session" being several hours long, with a FOD walkdown before each.

[Angelo Kerman]

@panarchist Looks pretty cool! Nice to see your airship operations working out.

[stuChris]

What exactly IS "playmode"?

[Angelo Kerman]

54 minutes ago, stuChris said:

What exactly IS "playmode"?

Play Modes give you different ways to use the parts in the mod. Some people don't want to bother with resource chains, for instance, and just want plenty of pretty parts to play with. In that case, just set the mode to Pristine, and restart the game. Last release also introduced a new resource set based on Novasilisko's and HarvestR's resource proposal for KSP 0.19. I call it Classic Stock, and it looks like this:

In this case, Classic Stock resources replace those in CRP.

[stuChris]

ah, i see, thanks

[stuChris]

I'm finding that a lot of Deck pieces don't have the "no markings" option, is this intentional atm or a bug? also, im getting a bug where the side elevators make their extension noise when changed in the SPH and constantly play it until they are removed

(FYI, am using 1.3.0 since most of my mods haven't updated yet)

also, would love to see more deck pieces, like catapults and such! and maybe more markings for the deck pieces

[CaptainPanda]

On 10/12/2017 at 10:05 PM, stuChris said:

I'm finding that a lot of Deck pieces don't have the "no markings" option, is this intentional atm or a bug? also, im getting a bug where the side elevators make their extension noise when changed in the SPH and constantly play it until they are removed

(FYI, am using 1.3.0 since most of my mods haven't updated yet)

also, would love to see more deck pieces, like catapults and such! and maybe more markings for the deck pieces

I'm getting the same audio bug on the side elevators, so you're not alone on that one. Backing out of the SPH and re-entering fixes it, too.

I've been using the Aircraft Carrier Accessories mod to add catapults and arresting wires to the airship carrier deck. It works pretty well, but you do need to have Tweakscale to get them to a usable size.

----------

I had a question for everyone as well: do you guys have any good ways of adding in pieces from the Hanger mod to the airship hanger deck? Specifically, is there a piece in the mod that will add the hangar function without the giant boxes cluttering up the deck and making it impossible to move planes around?