Angel-125

[1.7.x] Heisenberg - Airships Part Pack

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Okay, I’m having some problems with airships and I’m wondering if the VTOL controller also manages envelope lift.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, RocketSquid said:

Okay, I’m having some problems with airships and I’m wondering if the VTOL controller also manages envelope lift.

I don't think it does, but what exactly are the problems you're having?

Edited by RealKerbal3x
enormous whitespace fixed.

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Posted (edited)
54 minutes ago, RealKerbal3x said:

I don't think it does, but what exactly are the problems you're having?

Airships don’t take off, and instead flip in such a way that they smash into the launch pad. This may just be a problem with my design, but it persisted through so many edits that I begin to think there’s either something fundamentally wrong with my concept, something wrong with my piloting, or something wrong with my install.

Edited by RocketSquid

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5 minutes ago, RocketSquid said:

Airships don’t take off, and instead flip in such a way that they smash into the launch pad. This may just be a problem with my design, but it persisted through so many edits that I begin to think there’s either something fundamentally wrong with my concept, something wrong with my piloting, or something wrong with my install.

I'm pretty sure the HL toolbar app is the only thing that controls buoyancy, so it's probably the way you've built your airship. Make sure that your centre of mass is as close to the centre of the airship as possible. If you still can't balance it properly, adding some gyro rings and/or compressed air RCS thruster blocks may help with keeping the vessel stable.

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1 hour ago, TonedMite133805 said:

Is it up to date?

Last I checked it worked in 1.7.

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Posted (edited)

Seems to work fine in 1.7.0:

96O6kff.png

I usually start off with launch clamps, set throttle to zero, bump target vertical velocity up to +0.5 m/s as seen here, and wait for Buoyancy - Weight to go positive, then stage and wait until clear of the clamps before using throttle to go forward. @RocketSquid - check to see if your design is symmetrical from front to back, and keep weight centered under the envelope.  Make sure you have more weight below the centerline than above, or else it will want to invert. Also, lengths longer than 9x the beam (width) are not stable IRL, and in my experience not stable in HL Airships.

Side note, @Angel-125, did you rename the gas turbine generator? It looks like it broke existing Kestrel aircraft due to "missing" parts. No big deal, just thought I'd call it out in case anyone else has issues. nevermind, nothing to do with anything you did. I forgot that when I was trying to do the aircraft carrier thing, I resized the Kestral and replaced the SAFER with a resized GTG and used my own part config, which of course was missing when I reinstalled. Totally my own fault.

Edited by panarchist

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6 hours ago, panarchist said:

Seems to work fine in 1.7.0:

96O6kff.png

I usually start off with launch clamps, set throttle to zero, bump target vertical velocity up to +0.5 m/s as seen here, and wait for Buoyancy - Weight to go positive, then stage and wait until clear of the clamps before using throttle to go forward. @RocketSquid - check to see if your design is symmetrical from front to back, and keep weight centered under the envelope.  Make sure you have more weight below the centerline than above, or else it will want to invert. Also, lengths longer than 9x the beam (width) are not stable IRL, and in my experience not stable in HL Airships.

Side note, @Angel-125, did you rename the gas turbine generator? It looks like it broke existing Kestrel aircraft due to "missing" parts. No big deal, just thought I'd call it out in case anyone else has issues. nevermind, nothing to do with anything you did. I forgot that when I was trying to do the aircraft carrier thing, I resized the Kestral and replaced the SAFER with a resized GTG and used my own part config, which of course was missing when I reinstalled. Totally my own fault.

Aha, I was trying to launch from landing legs, also it may have been a bit too long. 

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2 hours ago, RocketSquid said:

Aha, I was trying to launch from landing legs, also it may have been a bit too long. 

I've launched from landing gear before (stock extra large landing gear) without issues. The important thing when not anchored to the ground is to keep the target vertical velocity at 0 until the buoyancy-weight numbers get to 000 - or as close to it as they do - before hitting the + or ++. Also, keep the ascent to <1m/s unless you know the design is totally stable. Even then, there may be quirks. But follow that guidance and you have a really good chance of getting up in the air without issues.

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11 hours ago, panarchist said:

I've launched from landing gear before (stock extra large landing gear) without issues. The important thing when not anchored to the ground is to keep the target vertical velocity at 0 until the buoyancy-weight numbers get to 000 - or as close to it as they do - before hitting the + or ++. Also, keep the ascent to <1m/s unless you know the design is totally stable. Even then, there may be quirks. But follow that guidance and you have a really good chance of getting up in the air without issues.

Oh, that might be my problem. The other big concern might be the placement of the gear; I don’t think there was enough of it on the back even though there was a pair behind the center of mass. Looking back, I’m guessing the spring strength was probably far too high, since that seems to be the case with the stock gear as well. 

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Posted (edited)

Is this mod up to date for 1.7.0, when KSP is loading I get a little message that says "is not supported by 1.7.0, please use version 1.7". It's not like my game is crashing or anything, I'm just not getting the parts, and I have HL Airships and Module Manager downloaded and working just fine... please get back to me if you can, or are having the same problem... I don't know if I downloaded it wrong, but I extracted it, and have tried it (for lack of a better plan) in KSP's GameData, HLa's folder, HLa's GameData, and I even tried out a zipped version, same issue every time.

Edited by Sagarmatha96
Added proper specification to my inquiry.

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One more question, just to be sure, which folder should I put this once I've extracted it? I was thinking in KSP's GameData folder, or The Hoonigan Labs Airship Pack folder... If I'm wrong, please let me know...

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@Sagarmatha96 1.7.0 is the same as 1.7. There’s probably a bug in MiniAVC (the dll that gives you that notification). The mod works fine in the latest version of KSP.

And, the HLAirships folder goes directly into GameData, while Heisenberg and its dependencies should be inside a folder called WildBlueIndustries which should be in GameData too.

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Sorry for double-posting... I found this video on page 36:

@Angel-125 - What happened to this? It looks like this could be a particularly practical way of getting an airship to another planet.

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6 hours ago, RealKerbal3x said:

Sorry for double-posting... I found this video on page 36:

@Angel-125 - What happened to this? It looks like this could be a particularly practical way of getting an airship to another planet.

The problem was the control surfaces. Couldn’t get two sets of them to work on the envelope.

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1 hour ago, Angel-125 said:

The problem was the control surfaces. Couldn’t get two sets of them to work on the envelope.

Ah, well. Shame, Heisenberg blimps would have been fun to play with...but there's quite a few blimp parts in Hooligan Labs that I can use instead (as much as I hate the textures in that pack :P).

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idk why but no matter what i do my airship is always nose heavy, any suggestions on how to remedy this ?

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19 minutes ago, somethingcool said:

idk why but no matter what i do my airship is always nose heavy, any suggestions on how to remedy this ?

If you post the craft file, I'll take a look at it and give suggestions. Hard to say *why* it's nose heavy without seeing what parts you're using and in which order.

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On 6/1/2019 at 12:56 PM, somethingcool said:

idk why but no matter what i do my airship is always nose heavy, any suggestions on how to remedy this ?

Your center of mass is too far forward of the airship's transverse centerline.  (the imaginary line bisecting the front and back of the ship) Click the "Center of Mass overlay" button in the lower left of the editor. You have a tail cone on either end, and 6 hull sections in between (looks like 1 HL10 airbag on each end, and 4 hangar bays in the middle. Your gondola is forward of the centerline, and so are your flight deck sections. Those are the main issue - they weigh 0.85 tons each and provide zero lift, and they extend further forward than aft, so they're pushing down the nose. Adding another flight deck piece at the back removes most of the weight issue, but not all of it. Adding some kind of ballast in the back will move the CoM. Usually, I use more gondolas back there, filled with supplies (since I use a life support mod needing them), but anything will do, even ore.

3SSQjXl.png

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Posted (edited)

aight, i'll incorporate those fixes and stay more ontop of center of mass, thx for the help

Edited by somethingcool

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1 hour ago, somethingcool said:

aight, i'll incorporate those fixes and stay more ontop of center of mass, thx for the help

I have the same thing happen frequently in my designs, it's easy to have problems with CoM.  Another thing that helps is adding the SAS rings on both ends.

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