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[Minimum KSP: 1.12.2] Heisenberg - Airships Part Pack


Angelo Kerman

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58 minutes ago, DerekL1963 said:

Restored the original config, and no dice.  The radiators don't radiate (yes, I remembered to activate them) and the reactor output still clamps at a fraction of what it should be.

Hmm, well, if everything is installed correctly, I'm not sure what your problem may be. I made what may be my absolute weirdest craft ever that actually flew with ease for testing everything at once. There's 6 radiators attached, but only two are turned on, and it seemed to keep from overheating with just one turned on.

vWDz9tl.png

8 Twisters in push/pull, the nuclear gyro ring, the large probe core, the radiators, a SAFER I forgot to detach but isn't turned on, and a 32k battery from another part pack.

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28 minutes ago, Krakatoa said:

Hmm, well, if everything is installed correctly, I'm not sure what your problem may be. I made what may be my absolute weirdest craft ever that actually flew with ease for testing everything at once. There's 6 radiators attached, but only two are turned on, and it seemed to keep from overheating with just one turned on.



8 Twisters in push/pull, the nuclear gyro ring, the large probe core, the radiators, a SAFER I forgot to detach but isn't turned on, and a 32k battery from another part pack.

Maybe the difference is the battery pack?

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1 minute ago, Angel-125 said:

Maybe the difference is the battery pack?

That's what I was thinking, actually. Perhaps the 30 EC gets overwhelmed by the calculations going on with 800+ EC being pulled for the engines? More buffer may help.

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6 minutes ago, Krakatoa said:

That's what I was thinking, actually. Perhaps the 30 EC gets overwhelmed by the calculations going on with 800+ EC being pulled for the engines? More buffer may help.

Ok, can you try this:

add to the nuclear gyro part:

RESOURCE
{
	name = ElectricCharge
	amount = 0
	maxAmount = 10000
}

And remove the LiquidFuel storage.

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1 hour ago, Angel-125 said:

Ok, can you try this:

add to the nuclear gyro part:


RESOURCE
{
	name = ElectricCharge
	amount = 0
	maxAmount = 10000
}

And remove the LiquidFuel storage.

@DerekL1963 So, the battery buffer is definitely a needed part of making sure the engines don't overwhelm KSP's core ability to do things, and I think in general it processes needs before generation, so you'll have problems with that unless you have the battery power to absorb any fluctuations. I flew my gyro ring quad copter around a good bit, and did manage to run the power out once, because the thrust and EC consumption of the engines can spike to max if they have to kick into overdrive to maintain speed, like what happened when I turned my quad copter 90 degrees or more and the engines were pulling against momentum. With the spare battery, though, I could do it a few times before managing to drain it and usually the reactor could catch up. I'm almost positive that if you make sure to have >10k EC on your airship and everything installed correctly, it should handle even 8 engines for normal airship flight.

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5 hours ago, Krakatoa said:

There's 6 radiators attached, but only two are turned on, and it seemed to keep from overheating with just one turned on.


That radiator is actually radiating less than they do on my test fixture with the reactors off...  So I'm not sure what's going on there.
 

3 hours ago, Krakatoa said:

So, the battery buffer is definitely a needed part of making sure the engines don't overwhelm KSP's core ability to do things, and I think in general it processes needs before generation, so you'll have problems with that unless you have the battery power to absorb any fluctuations.


I've had battery buffers before but not that large I think.  So I reconfigured my dirigible section templates for EC (57k!) instead of liquid fuel, and on the eight engine/four gyro ring version all it did was extend the runtime...  after about ten minutes all four reactors were in overheat and started to clamp their output.  The battery drained and that was that.

But now for the really weird part.  Just for fun and to be thorough, I added a pair of large fixed radiator panels to each ring...  And it worked like a champ.  After an hour, running at full throttle in full daylight...  Everything is working fine (no high temps leading to clamping) even though the radiators still don't look like they're accomplishing much.  (A couple in the 18% range, most in the 16% range.)

Either my expectations are off from years of playing with KSPI or Near Future reactors (certainly not an impossibility or even an improbability), or there is something odd going on with the heat generation/radiation.

Either way, you nailed the fix.  Thanks much!

Angel, for your to-do list for the next version, the HL-10 Hangar Bay does not have a battery option in it's template menu.

Edited by DerekL1963
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Ahh ok so it's probably the meshes causing the performance hit. Well it's a relief to know since I was chasing other causes. Although I did find a lot of my computers power goes to FAR and aero FX once I hit a certain speed. I hear FAR doesn't like weird meshes but I have been checking flight data and all your parts seem to work just fine. These blimps fly too good actually.

I just noticed the large dirigible sections are not providing buoyancy or adding envelope size. I have latest mod and KSP. Anyone else or just me?

Edited by SpaceFoon
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5 hours ago, SpaceFoon said:

I just noticed the large dirigible sections are not providing buoyancy or adding envelope size. I have latest mod and KSP. Anyone else or just me?

Me too.  I hadn't noticed that before.

HOHoLfB.png

Just out of curiosity, decided to see how the Hurricane and Typhoon tiltrotors would mount in case the Tornado isn't enough of a lift engine on Duna - and they fit just fine.

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48 minutes ago, SpaceFoon said:

Are you planning on having positive buoyancy on duna? The ship I'm working on will have negative but only like 500. Gonna use wings and gear to land. Really it's the entry that might be tough.


The plan is to get as close as I can to positive buoyancy with a reasonably functional vessel, and then make up any lack with lift motors.   My design (presuming it's possible) is ultimately based around preserving the key abilities of a dirigible - the ability to travel at low speeds, to hover at zero horizontal velocity indefinitely, and to land precisely with zero horizontal velocity.  Otherwise, why lug the weight and bulk of the dirigible sections all the way to Duna?

Entry on Duna is easy-peasy.  If you look at the Skydancer craft in Angel's sample craft folder, the NERV based drive section is more than capable of slowing the craft down enough that's there's no atmospheric heating effects.  Basically, you're flying tail first and thrusting all the way from orbit to the ground rather than relying on aerodynamic drag to slow you down.

Edited by DerekL1963
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9 hours ago, SpaceFoon said:

Ahh ok so it's probably the meshes causing the performance hit. Well it's a relief to know since I was chasing other causes. Although I did find a lot of my computers power goes to FAR and aero FX once I hit a certain speed. I hear FAR doesn't like weird meshes but I have been checking flight data and all your parts seem to work just fine. These blimps fly too good actually.

I just noticed the large dirigible sections are not providing buoyancy or adding envelope size. I have latest mod and KSP. Anyone else or just me?

 

3 hours ago, DerekL1963 said:

Me too.  I hadn't noticed that before.

Just out of curiosity, decided to see how the Hurricane and Typhoon tiltrotors would mount in case the Tornado isn't enough of a lift engine on Duna - and they fit just fine.

There is a HLEnvelopePartModule in the large dirigible section, with 2500 units of envelopeVolume, so you should have buoyancy like any other dirigible or hangar deck.

12 hours ago, DerekL1963 said:


That radiator is actually radiating less than they do on my test fixture with the reactors off...  So I'm not sure what's going on there.
 


I've had battery buffers before but not that large I think.  So I reconfigured my dirigible section templates for EC (57k!) instead of liquid fuel, and on the eight engine/four gyro ring version all it did was extend the runtime...  after about ten minutes all four reactors were in overheat and started to clamp their output.  The battery drained and that was that.

But now for the really weird part.  Just for fun and to be thorough, I added a pair of large fixed radiator panels to each ring...  And it worked like a champ.  After an hour, running at full throttle in full daylight...  Everything is working fine (no high temps leading to clamping) even though the radiators still don't look like they're accomplishing much.  (A couple in the 18% range, most in the 16% range.)

Either my expectations are off from years of playing with KSPI or Near Future reactors (certainly not an impossibility or even an improbability), or there is something odd going on with the heat generation/radiation.

Either way, you nailed the fix.  Thanks much!

Angel, for your to-do list for the next version, the HL-10 Hangar Bay does not have a battery option in it's template menu.

Fixed panel radiators only cool their parent part. You can't just place them anywhere like you can with the folding radiators. That 16-18% range might be because they don't have to work as hard in an atmosphere.

Also:

MM9GWFA.png

NOT set in stone. The WB-51 is as powerful as the Jet Stream, and the Thunderstorm is SHIELD helicarrier sized...

Edited by Angel-125
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30 minutes ago, Angel-125 said:

There is a HLEnvelopePartModule in the large dirigible section, with 2500 units of envelopeVolume, so you should have buoyancy like any other dirigible or hangar deck.


Ej1o4cx.png

Nonetheless - there's something wrong.

2iLtlHr.png

The config files for the medium and large are different...  the large has ":NEEDS[!HLAirships]" where the medium doesn't.

ZfIKyhV.png

Deleting that extra function (making the large match the medium) seems to restore functionality to the large.

 

32 minutes ago, Angel-125 said:

Fixed panel radiators only cool their parent part.

They can be one hop away (reactor->dirigible section->radiator for example)  and still work.
 

51 minutes ago, Angel-125 said:

NOT set in stone. The WB-51 is as powerful as the Jet Stream, and the Thunderstorm is SHIELD helicarrier sized...


Cool!

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On 3/31/2018 at 10:09 AM, DerekL1963 said:

The config files for the medium and large are different...  the large has ":NEEDS[!HLAirships]" where the medium doesn't.

Cool!

Should have that fixed in the next patch. Meanwhile...

pE1DCkw.png

Npj8VcJ.png

Merely 4x the size of the existing Tornado. The WB-51 "Monsoon" is only twice the size.

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Heisenberg 2.11 is now available:

New Parts
- Konstruction Krane (Advanced Construction): The Konstruction krane is helpful for picking stuff up on the ground and placing them were you want.
- WB-51 "Monsoon" Ducted Fan (Advanced Aerodynamics): This ducted fan combines the power of the WB-50 "Jet Stream" with the rotation ability of the WB-21 "Tornado" ducted fan.
- WB-52 "Thunderstorm" Ducted Fan (Advanced Aerodynamics): An immense ducted fan best suited to flying aircraft carriers, the Thunderstorm generates an enormous amount of thrust and can tilt just like the smaller ducted fans.

Bug Fixes And Enhancements
- Adjusted atmosphere and velocity curves for the electric propellers and fans- thanks JadeOfMaar! :)
NOTE: additional tweaks for thinner atmospheres might be on the way depending upon need...
- Fixed Hooligan Labs' lift issues with the HL-10L Dirigible Section.
- Increased the Nuclear Gyro power output to 2000 EC/sec and tweaked its thermal parameters.
- Nuclear Gyro stores 20,000 ElectricCharge instead of 4,500 LiquidFuel.
- HL-10 Hangar Deck now has a battery template.
- Increased the WB-50 "Jet Stream" thrust output to 500kn

Edited by Angel-125
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4 hours ago, Angel-125 said:

- WB-51 "Monsoon" Ducted Fan (Advanced Aerodynamics): This ducted fan combines the power of the WB-50 "Jet Stream" with the rotation ability of the WB-21 "Tornado" ducted fan.
- WB-52 "Thunderstorm" Ducted Fan (Advanced Aerodynamics): An immense ducted fan best suited to flying aircraft carriers, the Thunderstorm generates an enormous amount of thrust and can tilt just like the smaller ducted fans.


Those fans have some...  impressive thrust.

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7 hours ago, Daniel Prates said:

Of all the creative,  fun things conceived by the modding community,  this mod is one od the top best! I am glad to see this reach 1.4.

 

Thanks! :) I created the mod so I could fly around Kerbin in my Kerbin Elcano Exploration Project (K.E.E.P.) story that's nearly done now..

3 hours ago, DerekL1963 said:


Those fans have some...  impressive thrust.

Yup, and they need a huge amount of E.C. to boot. :)

Anyway, I have some more parts to add, then Heisenberg will be feature complete. With the latest KerbalActuators finally done (it's the modlet that drives the konstruction krane), I'm investigating making an inflatable airship hull:

It'll need either new parts for nuclear reactor and super gyro or custom configs for the storage gondolas to do the same functionality. Any thoughts?

Edited by Angel-125
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2 hours ago, Angel-125 said:

It'll need either new parts for nuclear reactor and super gyro or custom configs for the storage gondolas to do the same functionality. Any thoughts?

Hopefully in amongst all that, you'll get a chance to look into why the engine fwd/rev toggle doesn't work in an action group?  :)  :)

My preference would be to make parts rather than configs, but that's mostly because so many parts aren't what they seem to be it makes me dizzy.  I'd also add a chassis decoupler like Buffalo has.  Something to make it easy to pop into a fairing and launch.

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10 hours ago, DerekL1963 said:

Hopefully in amongst all that, you'll get a chance to look into why the engine fwd/rev toggle doesn't work in an action group?  :)  :)

My preference would be to make parts rather than configs, but that's mostly because so many parts aren't what they seem to be it makes me dizzy.  I'd also add a chassis decoupler like Buffalo has.  Something to make it easy to pop into a fairing and launch.

I haven't seen reverse-thrust issues with the latest build, which specific engines are having trouble?

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1 minute ago, Angel-125 said:

I haven't seen reverse-thrust issues with the latest build, which specific engines are having trouble?


The WB-50.  I did put new ones on after the newest version was released, and I see the menu changed, but it still doesn't reverse in an action group (though it can be manually toggled with the right click menu).  Hopefully I haven't done something boneheaded again...

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2 hours ago, DerekL1963 said:


The WB-50.  I did put new ones on after the newest version was released, and I see the menu changed, but it still doesn't reverse in an action group (though it can be manually toggled with the right click menu).  Hopefully I haven't done something boneheaded again...

Give 2.11.2 a try:

- Optimized meshes for all the electric propellers and fans.
- Fixed hub wobbling issue on the WB-21 "Tornado"
- Recompiled plugin.
- Retested action groups for thrust reverse and verified correct operation.

Please be sure to copy the included KerbalActuators as well, it has a few bug fixes.

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4 hours ago, Angel-125 said:

Give 2.11.2 a try:

- Optimized meshes for all the electric propellers and fans.
- Fixed hub wobbling issue on the WB-21 "Tornado"
- Recompiled plugin.
- Retested action groups for thrust reverse and verified correct operation.

Please be sure to copy the included KerbalActuators as well, it has a few bug fixes.


Everything seems to be working properly now, thanks!   FWIW, some preliminary testing shows those big new fans may have hit the showroom floor just in time.  I don't think the tilt-rotors are going to cut it.

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3 hours ago, DerekL1963 said:


Everything seems to be working properly now, thanks!   FWIW, some preliminary testing shows those big new fans may have hit the showroom floor just in time.  I don't think the tilt-rotors are going to cut it.

Try this:

		atmCurve
		{
		    key = 0 0
		    key = 0.3 0.4
		    key = 1 1 0.4550138 0.5264686
		    key = 5 2.4 0.2480805 0.2329394
		    key = 20 4
		}

If that doesn't work, blame me. If it does, thank @JadeOfMaar :)

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1 hour ago, Angel-125 said:

Try this:


		atmCurve
		{
		    key = 0 0
		    key = 0.3 0.4
		    key = 1 1 0.4550138 0.5264686
		    key = 5 2.4 0.2480805 0.2329394
		    key = 20 4
		}

If that doesn't work, blame me. If it does, thank @JadeOfMaar :)

Which engine does that apply to? (And what does it do?)

And taming those big fans is turning out to be a serious bear...  I still haven't figured out how to take off w/o flipping the blimp on it's nose.  But I think that's mostly because I'm launching from clamps due to the "drop and explode"bug.  I saw a mod to fix that, just need to track it down.  And go back and start from zero with a proper Duna Dirigible rather than working with a hacked version of the Norge.  (Which is designed to a rather different goal.)  It's work to do that, but better than doing the current and future engineering development work twice.

Edited by DerekL1963
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