Nich

Thud LOVE!!!

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So I will be honest I really have not looked at Thuds in a long time (.90) I had basically vowed to never use the Thud.  However lately I have been looking at them again and feel like they had quite a buff in both TWR and ISP.  That got me looking at some of the other engines.  Has the spark also had a buff since .90?  I feel like the ant used to have a better vacuum ISP then the spark.

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The Thud was massively nerfed in isp in 1.1 1.0 from 360 vacuum to it's current 305.

I wish I had used them more when they had 360 vacuum isp.

 

The Spark suffered a huge nerf in 1.0 with vacuum isp lowered from 350 and thrust lowered from 30.

I used to use them all the time but I haven't touched this engine in the last three releases.


Happy landings!

Edited by Starhawk

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Most engines were nerfed with new aerodynamic, as they would've become OP otherwise for lift-from-Kerbin game stages (which is huge percentage of total gametime).

 

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1 hour ago, parameciumkid said:

Wait WHAT? The Thud had 360 isp?!?!?

Well, yeah.  But the Terrier and the Poodle both had 390 at the time.

BTW, there was a mistake in my previous post.  The Thud was nerfed in 1.0, not 1.1.

Happy landings!

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Oh yeaaahhh... I remember now. I guess my standards have changed with the Poodle reduced to a mere 350 and everything else (except the venerable LV-N and PB-ION... please never change) lower.

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Since the horrible terrible nerf to the Swivel sea level stats, the Thud now seems like the more reasonable launch option for small, but not tiny, payloads.  At least unless you want to deal with excessive SRBs or no-gimbal LF engines.  But I still don't like 'em much - they're clunky.

I also use Thuds as maneuvering thrusters on my large space stations.  Simple way to keep the rear node clear for docking, and for small maneuvers the bad vacuum ISP is not a big deal.

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Thuds were 320, not 360, for most of their life. In 0.90, they got buffed from 320 to 360 to make them more competitive with other engines (back when the LV-T45 got 370 Isp, the KR-2L got 380, and the 909/poodle/aerospike got 390).

The nerf to 305 should be compared with the nerf to other engines like the LV-T30 which got whacked down to 300 Isp... for the first time giving the thud better vac Isp than the LV-T30....

Opps seems the LV-T30 got a buff to 310 Isp... it was 300 in 1.0 and I think 1.1

Seems the spark also got a big buff, as in 1.1 its vacuum Isp was only 300...

So... in 1.2... with the reliant and spark getting +10 and +20 vac Isp, its making the thud more lackluster in comparison (unless the current wiki stats are wrong... I'm currently on a computer that doesnt have 1.2 installed)

 

... Looking at the wiki... it seems more stats have changed... LV-T30s used to have 280 atm Isp... now the summary table lists 265... :/ The spark now thoroughly outclasses the LV-T30 again

Well, this makes the thud's 275 atmospheric Isp better.... too bad the only time I've used them recently was as radial engines for vacuum or near vacuum (Duna) landers.

Edited by KerikBalm

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I use thuds all the time. They make great extra engines when your first stage needs a bit more thrust, because their stats are in line with the lifter engines. One of my most used engine configurations in my last career was a skipper and four thuds, because I didn't have the mainsail yet, but my heavy payloads were too heavy for the skipper alone.

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I've found them to be useful on 2.5m reusable rockets, allowing them to have good control authority in the lower atmosphere (where I need it to have a reasonable safety margin against flipping) on the way up without making them into lawn darts on the way back down (like fins do). 

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3 hours ago, IronCretin said:

I use thuds all the time. They make great extra engines when your first stage needs a bit more thrust, because their stats are in line with the lifter engines. One of my most used engine configurations in my last career was a skipper and four thuds, because I didn't have the mainsail yet, but my heavy payloads were too heavy for the skipper alone.

This. I use them for extra thrust and roll control on the first stage with a Skipper.

zqhYPKdh.jpg

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I use Thuds a lot on launch vehicles, clipped into the bottom so only the nozzles poke out, not just to aid control but as the main engines. It's very surface area efficient while looking the part.

They're putting out two thirds of the total thrust here.

c40bd44565.png

Edited by String Witch

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In the Cave is where i appreciated the Thud the most.  In a caveman run the launch pad and VAB limitations of 18.0 Tonne and 30 parts make the Thud the most attractive lifter.  Combined with bamboo style drop tanks a pair of Thuds out perform any other lifter combination.

Love the Thud!

MozMUET.png

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2 hours ago, WyattNelsonGames said:

honestly it depends on were your going like if your going to the mun with a 2.5m lander you should use the poodle instead of the thud

I think they're for different roles.  Poodle is a sustainer / vaccum engine but can't get you off the pad.  Thud is best as a launch stage and is less competitive in vacuum, unless you don't want a rear mounted engine.

Also, I think I'd use a Skipper for something heavy enough to have a Poodle upper stage. The Terrier seems like a more natural match for 2ish Thuds.

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The SpaceM Tower-XL, with 30 Thuds:

PCqf6xX.png

And its second stage, the Tower-L with six thuds.

GGh33vu.png

Massed Thuds are a great way to get some high TWR on a cheap tech level.

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Like how other people have said, I personally like using the thud in career, when I need a more powerful rocket, but don't have the proper tech. It's a great supplement to the skipper in the lower atmosphere.

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55 minutes ago, KerikBalm said:

there must be a lot of part clipping of fuel tanks in that design....

or alt f12

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One thing I've used Thuds for is for is LFBs.  Small 1.25m rockets can often require around 120kN of thrust for liquid boosters (since it at least doubles as you're going to need some sort of symmetry), but there's no inline engine like that.

It tends to look a bit goofy, but it's the only real option for that sort of design.

 

On 10/25/2016 at 4:59 AM, KerikBalm said:

Seems the spark also got a big buff, as in 1.1 its vacuum Isp was only 300...

So... in 1.2... with the reliant and spark getting +10 and +20 vac Isp, its making the thud more lackluster in comparison (unless the current wiki stats are wrong... I'm currently on a computer that doesnt have 1.2 installed)

I hope we're not sliding back into Spark superiority again.   Remember when it was like 350 isp and had the best TWR outside of SRBs?

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Well, it now has the same TWR as the aerospike, but worse Isp. The skipper still outclasses it in TWR and atmospheric Isp...

So its still lagging behind other larger engines. The 1.25m engines aside from the vector and the aerospike don't compete so well with it though

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They have both the relative Isp and the form factor to be great for stage-and-a-half designs a là the Atlas 1.

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4 hours ago, Renegrade said:

I hope we're not sliding back into Spark superiority again.   Remember when it was like 350 isp and had the best TWR outside of SRBs?

The new Spark seems awfully good, and seems to be putting quite a bit of pressure on both the Terrier and Ant.  

I was sad we did not get the Pug in stock, but the new Spark is pretty close in terms of a small vacuum engine. But obviously its atmospheric performance destroys the other vac engines.  It's almost a mini aerospike with vectoring at this point.

Maybe they should have nerfed its atmospheric ISP, and had the Twitch be the atmospheric version, like the current Ant vs. Spider situation.

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I use Thuds for boosters in rovers. The thing is...I never landed a rover before, so I am training before I launch a rover mission to Mun.

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