KSP Weekly: Hallogreen is here!

[FullMetalMachinist]

1 hour ago, swjr-swis said:

Space race with competing agencies?

Until recently I was firmly in the 'multiplayer in KSP doesn't make sense' camp. 

But then a couple weeks ago I got together with my brother and we played that scenario (we each had our own computer running separate games). New career, normal difficulty, default settings. First person to land a kerbal on the Mun and safely return wins. And it was so much fun. 

And if that functionality could be built into the game without the need for us to be sitting next to each other? That would be amazing. 

[Problemless Mods Wanter]

Thank you so much for dealing with the UI flicker issue...

[V7 Aerospace]

I think that until the console port is fixed, Devnotes should be dedicated to giving updates of its current state in development.

Us PC players can wait while the console players issues are fixed, there are people who love the game, but detest SQUAD for their lack of communication. All that is needed is for them to know what is happening to resolve their problems, that would go a long way to help solve the mess we are currently in.

After all, what is more important? Fixing an unplayable game for console users, or working on a multiplayer update that some of us don't even want.

Edited October 30, 2016 by V7 Aerospace

[Wallygator]

Just want to chime in with my agreement regarding the (what might be a minority but nonetheless important) view that this new (retrenchment) format of what used to be 'Development Notes" is not informative.

The community within this forum is not an uninformed consumer mob.  For the most part we are quite demanding and persistent regarding our desires to know the details of development activities.  In this instance "Development" DOES NOT mean "business development" but rather "Software application development".  So as an example, we are more likely to appreciate bug work rather that plush toys or conference attendance.

It's fine to mention non sw-developement activities, but for the most part (80%?) this community seeks understanding and confirmation regarding specific bugs/issues and/or strategic architectural direction.

I can appreciate your desire to dumb down communications (it makes it much easier to rapidly communicate drivel) - however 'dumbing down' runs counter to the community interests that you have worked so hard over many years to develop.

You (@SQUAD) will likely benefit from finding better balance for these weekly updates if your intent is to further sustain and nurture your KSP (and KPS!) community.  If this forum community looses faith in you, then your value to the wider market will rapidly dwindle - please reference NMS... Perhaps you might consider 2 separate threads, a SW Dev thread and a business development thread - each operating on their own schedule - just a thought...

All of this is my own opinion - others may agree or not.  To me it is basic common sense. Your communication strategy and plan likely needs a strong revisit - and your stakeholder matrix might need to amplify the user community a bit more or perhaps your understanding of your stakeholders is biased incorrectly. When things go wrong, it is very easy to blame everything on communications, But at the same time it is very straight forward to make sure communications are aligned and effective regardless of the state of the business.

From a communications perspective, I sense you are on the cusp of screwing the pooch - I sincerely hope you don't.  (Please note: There are no explosive bolts on the software development hatch)

Regardless, I appreciate any information that is passed to us - and hopefully the need to 'interpret and infer' can be reduced over time, if you can assure more clarity and focus.

Edited October 30, 2016 by Wallygator
tense

[HoloYolo]

2 hours ago, Wallygator said:

Just want to chime in with my agreement regarding the (what might be a minority but nonetheless important) view that this new (retrenchment) format of what used to be 'Development Notes" is not informative.

The community within this forum is not an uninformed consumer mob.  For the most part we are quite demanding and persistent regarding our desires to know the details of development activities.  In this instance "Development" DOES NOT mean "business development" but rather "Software application development".  So as an example, we are more likely to appreciate bug work rather that plush toys or conference attendance.

It's fine to mention non sw-developement activities, but for the most part (80%?) this community seeks understanding and confirmation regarding specific bugs/issues and/or strategic architectural direction.

I can appreciate your desire to dumb down communications (it makes it much easier to rapidly communicate drivel) - however 'dumbing down' runs counter to the community interests that you have worked so hard over many years to develop.

You (@SQUAD) will likely benefit from finding better balance for these weekly updates if your intent is to further sustain and nurture your KSP (and KPS!) community.  If this forum community looses faith in you, then your value to the wider market will rapidly dwindle - please reference NMS... Perhaps you might consider 2 separate threads, a SW Dev thread and a business development thread - each operating on their own schedule - just a thought...

All of this is my own opinion - others may agree or not.  To me it is basic common sense. Your communication strategy and plan likely needs a strong revisit - and your stakeholder matrix might need to amplify the user community a bit more or perhaps your understanding of your stakeholders is biased incorrectly. When things go wrong, it is very easy to blame everything on communications, But at the same time it is very straight forward to make sure communications are aligned and effective regardless of the state of the business.

From a communications perspective, I sense you are on the cusp of screwing the pooch - I sincerely hope you don't.  (Please note: There are no explosive bolts on the software development hatch)

Regardless, I appreciate any information that is passed to us - and hopefully the need to 'interpret and infer' can be reduced over time, if you can assure more clarity and focus.

Well said.

[Redneck]

Quote

Just want to chime in with my agreement regarding the (what might be a minority but nonetheless important) view that this new (retrenchment) format of what used to be 'Development Notes" is not informative.

The community within this forum is not an uninformed consumer mob.  For the most part we are quite demanding and persistent regarding our desires to know the details of development activities.  In this instance "Development" DOES NOT mean "business development" but rather "Software application development".  So as an example, we are more likely to appreciate bug work rather that plush toys or conference attendance.

It's fine to mention non sw-developement activities, but for the most part (80%?) this community seeks understanding and confirmation regarding specific bugs/issues and/or strategic architectural direction.

I can appreciate your desire to dumb down communications (it makes it much easier to rapidly communicate drivel) - however 'dumbing down' runs counter to the community interests that you have worked so hard over many years to develop.

You (@SQUAD) will likely benefit from finding better balance for these weekly updates if your intent is to further sustain and nurture your KSP (and KPS!) community.  If this forum community looses faith in you, then your value to the wider market will rapidly dwindle - please reference NMS...Perhaps you might consider 2 separate threads, a SW Dev thread and a business development thread - each operating on their own schedule - just a thought...

All of this is my own opinion - others may agree or not.  To me it is basic common sense. Your communication strategy and plan likely needs a strong revisit - and your stakeholder matrix might need to amplify the user community a bit more or perhaps your understanding of your stakeholders is biased incorrectly. When things go wrong, it is very easy to blame everything on communications, But at the same time it is very straight forward to make sure communications are aligned and effective regardless of the state of the business.

From a communications perspective, I sense you are on the cusp of screwing the pooch - I sincerely hope you don't.  (Please note: There are no explosive bolts on the software development hatch)

Regardless, I appreciate any information that is passed to us - and hopefully the need to 'interpret and infer' can be reduced over time, if you can assure more clarity and focus.

Pfft they dont care man...they already got our money. Have a plushie!

[Kerbart]

@UomoCapra, please use the curseforge link to Asteroid Day... That's the link without the ads, 3 second download delay, etc. When people are complaining about Curse, that's why. I didn't expect @SQUAD to be the ignorant ones to use the bad version!

[Aurum6]

When did this community get so cancerous?

Come on guys, SQUAD just released an update that took an already amazing game and fixed loads of bugs, added new features, and gave it a very polished (some might even say finished) feel. 1.2 is one of the best updates that has ever been released for this game, and they are still actively working on making it better. What more can you ask from a game dev? And yet here you guys are acting like entitled jerks and hating on SQUAD. Why?

Because they changed the devnotes format? Devnotes have always been released once a week, and they still are. The difference is that now they come out on Friday instead of Tuesday, and so far they have all been on time. That, to me, is a good thing. We have lost the other Daily Kerbal sections like Modding Mondays, Video Wenesdays, and Fanwork Fridays, and that's unfortunate. However, it took time out of an employee's day to find the content for those posts and put them together, and frankly, I think that time could be better spent doing something else.

Because the devnotes aren't detailed enough? Again, this is nothing new. Sometimes the devs have lots of details to share with us, and sometimes they have next to nothing. The reason for this is simple. If they were to announce that they were working on a feature or fix, and it ended up not being released, there would be a s***storm of hate from the community about it. It has happened before, and they have learned their lesson. Now, they only announce things when they are nearly finished. Nothing's finished for the next update yet, so no info. Get it?

Because the console versions are crap badly in need of an update? You're right, they are. But consider this. It's relatively easy for a developer to release an update for a PC game. It's a lot more complicated to do something for consoles. Those updates need to go through Flying Tiger, and then through Microsoft and Sony. It's a long, complex process, and most of it is out of SQUAD's hands. I know it sucks, but console players are just going to have to be patient. And besides, how often do you see other console games get updates after they release? It's becoming more common, but the vast majority still never do.

Anyway, /rant. Thank you, SQUAD, for all that you have done and all that you continue to do. I firmly believe that the comments left on these forums do not represent the sentiments of the KSP community, and I am part of a mostly-silent majority that loves this game and appreciates all of your hard work. And a huge thank you to @Badie for dealing with all of the inane, misguided anger coming from certain parts of the community. Keep up the good work, everyone!

TL;DR - Grow up, children. 

 

[Mako]

2 hours ago, Aurum6 said:

TL;DR - Grow up, children.

Very seriously thank you for that; I appreciate irony.

As to the point you're trying to make:

The person who was responsible for the idea and creation, as well as a lot of the design and direction, of KSP left the company about 6 months ago. Less than two months ago a very active, well-liked PR person left the company. Recently, a large portion of the development team left the company. I think most people feel like KSP has been moving in a generally positive direction up to that point. With these major changes to the staff who are responsible for this lovely game, I believe the people you are so maturely trying to insult in your post are looking for some assurances that things are going to continue in the generally positive direction. Changes this big can be normal and unimpactful for a game developer, but they can also be very disruptive. I think what you're perceiving as "acting like entitled jerks" is really just the manifestation of concern about the future of KSP. Changes to the format of official communications and to the content of information that SQUAD presents does not offer confidence that KSP is continuing in the same generally positive direction. The point I'm trying to make is that SQUAD is saying that everything is business as usual, but their actions are saying something else. There is a disconnect there, and people are questioning it. I'm not suggesting that this disconnect is indicative of any actual changes taking place; I'm only interpreting the questions and opinions raised in this thread as peoples' concerns about the future of KSP. I truly appreciate all the hard work and effort that has gone into this product so far, and I am very curious to see what the future holds for KSP and SQUAD.

TL;DR - Feel free to call people children, but I think you're missing the point and not doing well at making yours.

Edited October 31, 2016 by Mako
Typos and clarification.

[p1t1o]

On 10/29/2016 at 0:01 AM, SQUAD said:

Do you want to guess how many lines of code KSP has?

'bout 2 million?

[KSK]

9 hours ago, Aurum6 said:

We have lost the other Daily Kerbal sections like Modding Mondays, Video Wenesdays, and Fanwork Fridays, and that's unfortunate. However, it took time out of an employee's day to find the content for those posts and put them together, and frankly, I think that time could be better spent doing something else.

Respectfully, I disagree. Or rather, I would take your point if it wasn't for the fact that plenty of other promotional activities are still going on. As it is, somebody at Squad is/has been tasked with preparing all the material for Hallogreen. Somebody is clearly being given the time to keep the KSP Facebook page and Twitter feed up to date. But apparently, keeping the Daily Kerbal updated is a step too far?

Check out the KSP website. Literally, the first thing you come to after the introduction to the game itself, is a rather nice piece about the KSP community. And yet, a long running thread dedicated to showcasing the work of that community has apparently been axed or at least put on hold. I'm not going to speculate why this has happened but, to use @Mako's wording, it's another disconnect between what Squad are saying and what Squad are doing. 

 

[klgraham1013]

10 hours ago, Aurum6 said:

When did this community get so cancerous?

The bigger a community gets, the more likely you'll see the pitchforks.

10 hours ago, Aurum6 said:

it took time out of an employee's day to find the content for those posts and put them together, and frankly, I think that time could be better spent doing something else.

It took time out of the community managers day, who's job is to involve themselves with the community.

10 hours ago, Aurum6 said:

Because the console versions are crap?

Fixed.  Consumer's should not be expected to care why the product they paid money for does not work as advertised.  Only that is does not.  KSP was released with a broken save system and has remained broken for 4 months.  That is the only fact Squad / Flying Tiger should expect the consumer to care about, and that fact is pretty crap.

Take note: My posts since 1.2 have included few pitchforks.  Yours just seemed to emotional without looking at the other side of the matter.  ...and I'm 36 years old.

2 hours ago, p1t1o said:

'bout 2 million?

You win today's internet.

[Azimech]

I think a working multiplayer would dramatically boost sales. I often hear the question when I show KSP to other people and see the disappointment on their faces when I answer. Especially the console market, where a lot of kids do multiplayer and won't even touch a single player game anymore, "what could possibly be the fun in that?"

And let's face it, it's fun. Even turn based, first time I read about this was a Star Trek RPG in 1986, through a BBS or something. I was 9 and immediately wanted to do it. Never happened

Edited October 31, 2016 by Azimech

[Mervy]

5 minutes ago, Azimech said:

I think a working multiplayer would dramatically boost sales. I often hear the question when I show KSP to other people and see the disappointment on their faces when I answer. Especially the console market, where a lot of kids do multiplayer and won't even touch a single player game anymore, "what could possibly be the fun in that?"

And let's face it, it's fun. Even turn based, first time I read about this was a Star Trek RPG in 1986, through a BBS or something. I was 9 and immediately wanted to do it. Never happened

Never say never

 

[Curveball Anders]

8 minutes ago, Azimech said:

And let's face it, it's fun.

Most forms of MP isn't fun, it's just forcing you to interact with dribbling idiots.

Co-op MP can be fun, but it's limited to finding time to play with friends.

And if you ask people of what they want with co-op MP they'll say "to join (ie lead) a group of friends to a common goal".

Very few will dream of being the mostly pointless red-shirt engineer or the random tug pilot who'll be idle for 23 out of 24 hours.

Most people dream of play Buzz, few wants to play Mike Collins

[Redneck]

32 minutes ago, Curveball Anders said:

Most forms of MP isn't fun, it's just forcing you to interact with dribbling idiots.

Co-op MP can be fun, but it's limited to finding time to play with friends.

And if you ask people of what they want with co-op MP they'll say "to join (ie lead) a group of friends to a common goal".

Very few will dream of being the mostly pointless red-shirt engineer or the random tug pilot who'll be idle for 23 out of 24 hours.

Most people dream of play Buzz, few wants to play Mike Collins

you know i hear people say this quite a bit but yet you will see them play it. If you dont like MP then you dont have to play it. Pretty simple huh? But those of us that do like it will play it. It would be nice to have the option to do so and some of us have been waiting since 2011 for it. Why dont squad use DMP? Really everything in DMP works it only starts messing up once you come into visual range of target. It has its problems but having access to the KSP code would fix all that. The framework is already there! So essentialy what you are saying is if you dont play sandbox in KSP then they should take it out right? Or if you dont play career they should take it out? Some of us like those things

Edited October 31, 2016 by Redneck

[Curveball Anders]

4 minutes ago, Redneck said:

If you dont like MP then you dont have to play it.

Fair enough.

My only point is don't adjust core KSP to allow for MP.

[Redneck]

10 minutes ago, Curveball Anders said:

Fair enough.

My only point is don't adjust core KSP to allow for MP.

its all good bro they prolly aint going to do it anyways  judging by they way they avoid the topic

Edited October 31, 2016 by Redneck

[p1t1o]

Whilst I admit, seeing other vessels' tracks on the map view would be quite fun, Im at a loss as to *how* KSP multiplayer would get played?

Multiple people flying the same vessel just results in there being little to do for each person.

Vessel building is about 50% of the game and is single-player only really, can you imagine?

For multi-vessel missions, the vast majority of time will be spent with the vessels on their own anyway, so you're talking a large amount of time spent coding this ability just so the last 10 minutes of a multi-hour mission gets spent in the company of apparently autonomous kerbals.

Lets say you want to multi-vessel to Duna - what do you do when you get there? Just watch each other complete science experiments and take off again?

Or lets say you want to launch a multi-part ship for construction in orbit - who flies it after it is complete?

Yeah I can see there being a few situations (Like those few brave souls who hardcore-it and fly whole missions from IVA) where it would be cool, but its been centuries and Chess has not suffered any loss from not having a Co-Op mode.

[Curveball Anders]

19 minutes ago, p1t1o said:

Whilst I admit, seeing other vessels' tracks on the map view would be quite fun, Im at a loss as to *how* KSP multiplayer would get played?

It's been argued about.

A few years later we haven't agreed, the argument is still open (as still as we are nice and don't annoy the mods).

[Redneck]

39 minutes ago, p1t1o said:

Whilst I admit, seeing other vessels' tracks on the map view would be quite fun, Im at a loss as to *how* KSP multiplayer would get played?

Check out DMP and you will know! (you many encounter errors once in visual range). You know its wierd how people write negative comments about multiplayer and havent even tried it! (not saying you did p1t1o its just a general statement nothing personal )

[Curveball Anders]

1 minute ago, Redneck said:

Check out DMP and you will know! (you many encounter errors once in visual range). You know its wierd how people write negative comments about multiplayer and havent even tried it! (not saying you did p1t1o its just a general statement nothing personal )

I will most likely not, since I don't miss MP in KSP and I don't want to play Mike.

I've played MP for more than 30 years, I don't miss it

And if I want, I'd just alt-tab to EvE

[p1t1o]

3 minutes ago, Redneck said:

Check out DMP and you will know! (you many encounter errors once in visual range). You know its wierd how people write negative comments about multiplayer and havent even tried it! (not saying you did p1t1o its just a general statement nothing personal )

To be fair, I am generally biased against multiplayer, the really good teamwork experiences are just too diluted by all the trash, and i cant help but think the same would come of KSP multiplayer.

Im all for it if it can be made to work, but I personally dont feel that KSP loses anything from being SP only.

[Azimech]

Just because most people just go to space and can't really imagine anything else to do with this wonderful product (and I've seen lots of comments of players who've landed everywhere and ask on facebook "what now?") ... doesn't mean others have the same self-imposed limitations. I see lots of non-violent applications for multiplayer. Economics race for example like EVE, mine until a certain goal is met, co-op or competition.

Use Extraplanetary Launchpads with accelerated building, all teams on the same moon, they transport new modules to orbit and build a station with a minimum of x parts, in the same orbit.

Hide and seek, with competing team vessel labels disabled but increased visual range, in orbit or on Gilly.

Space Pong, have two large windows floating in space and with your ship you're trying to use the blast of your rocket engines to fling a ball through the window of the other one ... while trying not to crash through your own window.

Racing is another one. Five teams racing a five minute race, after every race the driver/pilot and the constructor evaluate and have the possibility to adjust or rebuild a car/plane/spaceship for 15 minutes, then everyone races again.

Two teams build VTOL's then try to build a house of cards (or metal plates in this case).

Build robots or cars and play football.

Should I go on?

[Curveball Anders]

6 minutes ago, Azimech said:

Should I go on?

Please do, but I'll stay way out of it.