Blackline

[1.7.3] Real Battery v1.7

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Hello.  I just found this mod via CKAN, and it sounds fantastic.  But I am upgraded to 1.2.2 and the mod is limited to 1.2.1.  Could this be corrected?

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8 hours ago, DJ Reonic said:

I tried exactly this, and all my parts were renamed to Real Battery names.

Tradeof, but that can be handled. But did it work in terms of functionality? 

5 minutes ago, Aceoaces said:

Hello.  I just found this mod via CKAN, and it sounds fantastic.  But I am upgraded to 1.2.2 and the mod is limited to 1.2.1.  Could this be corrected?

Didn't mean to limit it, I was able to install it though (on 1.2.2) ill try to fix that later. 

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I changed the patch to not do the name change, but I think there was a problem involving Kerbalism. I'm going to do another test on a vanilla build with RB and see what happens. I'd love for Kerbalism to have an option to recognize and use RB.

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On 2.2.2017 at 3:09 PM, DJ Reonic said:

I changed the patch to not do the name change, but I think there was a problem involving Kerbalism. I'm going to do another test on a vanilla build with RB and see what happens. I'd love for Kerbalism to have an option to recognize and use RB.

Any luck with that?

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I love it! Do you think it would be possible to simulate the conversion of StoredCharge to EC in the background? I'm using Kerbalism and my kerbals are dying when the vessel is unloaded... Its the only thing that stop me from using it! EDIT: After looking into it, I realized kerbalism already adds other mods support for background simulation. It would probably be better to ask ShotgunNinja about it.

Keep up the nice work! Been a long time I'm waiting for a mod that that will fix the batteries!

 

Edited by flack

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23 minutes ago, flack said:

I love it! Do you think it would be possible to simulate the conversion of StoredCharge to EC in the background? I'm using Kerbalism and my kerbals are dying when the vessel is unloaded... Its the only thing that stop me from using it!

Keep up the nice work! Been a long time I'm waiting for a mod that that will fix the batteries!

Thank you, and i indeed want to fix that, i just don't know how. I already tried to ask for help:

Maybe i need to dig into the Background Processing mod.

EDIT: funny thing, i just found this thread, talking about similar stuff:

 

Edited by Blackline

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Just now, Blackline said:

Thank you, and i indeed want to fix that, i just don't know how. I already tried to ask for help:

Maybe i need to dig into the Background Processing mod.

I edited my post at the same moment you posted. It seems ShotgunNinja already support third party module background simulation. https://github.com/ShotgunNinja/Kerbalism/wiki/Background-Simulation

Hopefully he can add your module to those already supported!

 

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Ok, i read through @ShotgunNinja's sources: https://github.com/ShotgunNinja/Kerbalism/blob/master/src/Background.cs

I think it could work, if i would implement some sort of simplified API, so he can call it from his Background function. Maybe i find some info in his thread, someone else might have done that already.

Note: i have never used Kerbalism, only USI-LS so far, which does not care for EC of unloaded vessels at all. And getting the whole EC system to run in background would be a bit much (though really cool) for my little mod.

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Do you have any plans to also add capacitors back in? Explicitly named as such and acting like capacitors (very low density and infinite dis/charge rate)? You might be able to collaborate with Nertea  to get permission to share his capacitor parts, or just make an addon/extension thing in config and dll form only to patch into near future electrical (weirdly, his capacitors are almost anti-capacitors in their behavior, but whatever, all the more reason for an optional patch). Nertea also definitely knows how to solve the unloaded vehicle resource issue, since he has multiple mods that do so (cryo tanks, NFE, etc.)

Edit: also regarding flywheels, keep in mind for modeling purposes of any parts (or choice of existing models), that it would absolutely have to be inside of a gimbal system. If it were just mounted right to the ship, it would utterly screw you over if you tried to turn in 2 of your 3 axes. Inside a gimbal, it's fine, because it just maintains its orientation, ignoring whatever the ship does, but this necessitates different part models that imply gimbals or room for gimbals.

Edited by Crimeo

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Currently I implemented a small 'capacitor' on each RealBattery, in case someone wants to go without stock batteries at all, and since the whole stock electric system depends on EC (and I won't /can't change that very fundamental concept). So actually all the stock batteries could be seen as capacitors, I might rename them with my cfg to better fit the concept. Regarding modeling: I have literally 0 knowledge about all that stuff, so I would definitely depend on existing models or someone willing to do that for me.

What I'd like to do, given your proposal: use @Nertea 's NFE capacitors, remove all modules and just add EC storage. So youd even have the right model. But I don't know, if that sort of behavior is acceptable in a moral way (to totally change someone elses parts unasked). 

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If you're not redistributing any part of a person's mod, only making patch configs, that require the target mod be obtained separately as a dependency from the original author, there's nothing wrong with that. I was mentioning permission mainly for asking about the possibility of a collaborative blended thing of some sort, which you can't/shouldn't do alone, of course.

Doesn't hurt to be overly polite though if you like :)

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I don't know if pinging @Nertea a thousand times is better, than going to his mod thread and asking for stuff regarding my mod (already got punched once for doing so)

Edited by Blackline

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Hi, I really like your mod but when I use very large EC-engines the EC discharges too fast and the realbatteries can't follow immediately and before the realbatteries can fully kick in, my EC is empty.

So I want to raise the lower limit of when the realbatteries kick in but I don't know where that would be possible (if possible).

They work but I can't use my engines at full power till the realbatteries fully kick in.

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Awesome, finally someone is using my mod :-)

Joke aside, this lower range you mentioned, it's part of a hysteresys for charging and uncharging. Once you hit the lower boundary (~5% of total EC) the realbattery discharges until 90% of total EC is reached. Now if any EC producer raises EC total above 95%, charging mode becomes active, which uses EC all the way down to 10%. I had to do all of this to get rid of some nasty warp behaviour. Changing this to another value is perfectly possible, but it should work already. Can you tell me the exact situation?

I am also thinking about an adaptive hysteresys, with a moving boundary value.

Edited by Blackline

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In my case it's for an ssto with 6 plasma engines from near future propulsion mod, with each using 1000 EC/s at full power. I use 2 normal 2.5 diameter batteries as buffer and 6  2.5 diameter realbatteries, I noticed that each can provide around a 1000 EC/s when properly cooled with 4 small radiator panels each and I also use 2 nuclear power generators of 500 EC/s each. So the realbatteries only have to provide power for 5 engines and can theoretically provide power for a bit more than 6 engines.

When in space with everything ambient temps and starting engines at full throttle, the EC drops drastically but when it reaches the lower hysteresis limit, the realbatteries can't provide enough power quickly enough to provide power for the engines. So I have to lower my throttle till the realbatteries can provide their full power.

I did notice how the lower and upper limit works for the batteries, but in this case the lower limit is to low for me. So if you could change it so it is configurable, would be really nice.

I have no problem with the limits with lower power drains, but these are very high loads and not available in stock except maybe if you use 50 ion engines or so :P

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Are the batteries too cold at the beginning and need time to heat up? If yes, then I could add some sort of heating mechanism (or drop the cold effect completely, because that might just screw up warp behaviour beyond all recognition...)

If not, then I don't understand why it doesn't work initially, but does in a steady state...

Nevertheless, let me have a quick look at the code. DONE. So the bad news, it needs a new compile to get that change, but I can make it configurable from the *.cfg file, and maybe I can think of some sort of adaptive functionality.

Edited by Blackline

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Yeah, it's probably because they are too cold at the start but if I could raise the lower limit the realbatteries would start earlier and start heating up so that by the time the normal batteries are almost empty, the realbatteries can provide their max power.

A heating mechanism can probably also work. But like I said, raising the lower limit should solve my problem, because adding a heating mechanism is anther extra thing you keep your eye on while playing because it also use EC and stuff. So it makes it more complex.

If you could make it configurable then I would be really grateful :)

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On 30.10.2016 at 6:01 PM, Blackline said:

increase the available EC-storage per mass, and to keep the balance

Hmm. The Real Batteries have a much lower capacity / weight ratio than stock batteries or batteries from other mods, so how do you mean that.

Edited by Gordon Dry

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3 hours ago, Gordon Dry said:

Hmm. The Real Batteries have a much lower capacity / weight ration than stock batteries or batteries from other mods, so how do you mean that.

How did you come to that conclusion? Don't forget , 1 SC = 3600 EC ! As in 1 kWh = 3600 J (=Ws).

So my 5kg LiIon-RealBattery has in fact 0.9 SC * 3600 EC/SC + 9 EC local buffer =  3249 EC, compared to the stock 100 EC.

EvctgGE.png

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Hmm.

It seems that the batteries that come with some mods are overpowered or they are patched by RO or whatever and get out of balance.

Or many parts that consume power need way too much because the modder didn't read

and

Just easy to remember that 1 EC is 1 KW ...

But when I plan a comm relay satellite and check with AmpYear for dark transfer I come to the conclusion that all systems WOULD need megawatts or 1000s of EC during just a little more than an hour ...

To achieve that I have to place 2 tons of RealBattery incl. heat dissipation radiators ...

Hmmm.

Sound silly to me for just a comm satellite.

 

btw your batteries are also patched by RO and lost SC, they only got EC ...

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12 hours ago, Gordon Dry said:

Hmm.

It seems that the batteries that come with some mods are overpowered or they are patched by RO or whatever and get out of balance.

Or many parts that consume power need way too much because the modder didn't read

and

Just easy to remember that 1 EC is 1 KW ...

But when I plan a comm relay satellite and check with AmpYear for dark transfer I come to the conclusion that all systems WOULD need megawatts or 1000s of EC during just a little more than an hour ...

To achieve that I have to place 2 tons of RealBattery incl. heat dissipation radiators ...

Hmmm.

Sound silly to me for just a comm satellite.

 

btw your batteries are also patched by RO and lost SC, they only got EC ...

Ampyear does not know about SC, and this gives you wrong numbers! And if I see if energy is compared to power... Ufff.

Did not know about RO patching my stuff, I'll need to look into that, thanks 4 the hint!

And, very important, without SC, realbattery won't work at all!!!

Edited by Blackline

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3 hours ago, MoNsTroo said:

Don't work mod

1.2.2 version. Steam. 
CRP version 0.6.6.0
RealBattery 1.1.5.

outlog

ksp.log

 

  Hide contents


RuQLsu-vyaA.jpg

mol_Ggj85EM.jpg

JWqy_PUoxLM.jpg


 

Your pics don't show my batteries, Instead you have to look for copies of the stock ones on the top of the list, they are called "xx kg battery". I'll crawl through the log when I am back at the PC.

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@SyRiNx i updated RealBattery to v1.1.6, now you can set the low and high EC values via cfg. Might need some time for CKAN, but you can get it from Github now.

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