[1.2] Sensible Tech Tree 1.0 (12/18/16)

[ThePhoenixSol]

1 hour ago, rocketbuilder said:

When do you get batteries? I'm playing with allot of mods, but I can't find any stock batteries.

You start with some, and get more later down the science branch

[Rabada]

(I hope this makes sense, its hard for me to describe) My problem with the tech tree, is the way that similar items are splits across many different techs, and how that relates to the mid-game and end-game part of career mode. For example the 1.25m fuel tanks are unlocked by 4 different techs. This makes sense at the start of a career mode game, when you still have to worry about the 30 part limit for rockets in the VAB. For example, lets say I have a rocket with 30 total parts, 8 of which are FL-T200 tanks, so I unlock advanced rocketry so I can replace those tanks with 4 FL-T400s to reduce the part total for the rocket.

Once I upgrade the VAB, I don't have to worry about part limits anymore. However there are still a lot of very similiar parts split up across mutiple techs up until the very end of the tech tree. The best example of this is batteries, I don't think there should be any batteries in the tech tree past advanced electics (a 160science tech) The end of the tech tree should be for stuff like Ion engines, IRSU parts, RTGs, and advanced engines like the vector and the rapier, not bigger batteries and various  very useful structural parts.

[rocketbuilder]

2 hours ago, ThePhoenixSol said:

You start with some, and get more later down the science branch

Yeah your right, my mods screwed the tech tree over.

[ThePhoenixSol]

5 hours ago, Rabada said:

(I hope this makes sense, its hard for me to describe) My problem with the tech tree, is the way that similar items are splits across many different techs, and how that relates to the mid-game and end-game part of career mode. For example the 1.25m fuel tanks are unlocked by 4 different techs. This makes sense at the start of a career mode game, when you still have to worry about the 30 part limit for rockets in the VAB. For example, lets say I have a rocket with 30 total parts, 8 of which are FL-T200 tanks, so I unlock advanced rocketry so I can replace those tanks with 4 FL-T400s to reduce the part total for the rocket.

Once I upgrade the VAB, I don't have to worry about part limits anymore. However there are still a lot of very similiar parts split up across mutiple techs up until the very end of the tech tree. The best example of this is batteries, I don't think there should be any batteries in the tech tree past advanced electics (a 160science tech) The end of the tech tree should be for stuff like Ion engines, IRSU parts, RTGs, and advanced engines like the vector and the rapier, not bigger batteries and various  very useful structural parts.

it makes sense. While i opted to release the mod, i am still very much modifying where parts are over time. Im doing a twitch series of playing with mod(and others) to test it out(it also servers as a general playthrough). My point in mentioning this is that in doing so i have noticed and changed some parts placements, and your argument is very valid, so ill look into moving them around.

5 hours ago, rocketbuilder said:

Yeah your right, my mods screwed the tech tree over.

what mods are you using?

[rocketbuilder]

8 hours ago, ThePhoenixSol said:

 

what mods are you using?

Allot™

Edited February 17, 2017 by rocketbuilder

[SneakyGunz]

I Like the idea of this but I must say: It's nearly impossible to play. This is because communication(antenna) are not in the first many nodes. Most likely this mod because it's the only one of 50 or so I always use, that I've changed(added).

[ThePhoenixSol]

On 3/31/2017 at 3:50 PM, SneakyGunz said:

I Like the idea of this but I must say: It's nearly impossible to play. This is because communication(antenna) are not in the first many nodes. Most likely this mod because it's the only one of 50 or so I always use, that I've changed(added).

I havent had any issues with it. the antenna are early enough to where you can do some sounding rockets with just probe antenna control, and then use that science to unlock antenna for further control. Sorry for the late reply btw, been really busy recently.

NOTE: i will likely be releasing the next version in a day or two with some mod integration. Its taken so long as i have been stubborn in trying to get IR working with it, but with no luck for so long, im just going to release it. But its gonna take a bit as I had to format, and i have to grab everything from my external drive where ksp is, and then remake a few things.

 

Thanks to those who have bared with me and my stubborness.

Edited April 25, 2017 by ThePhoenixSol

[tklenke]

Any chance you would want to post the mod on Github?  I'd be happy to fork it and add some parts from the Mods I'm using.  SCANSat, Vanguard Parachutes and KW Rocketry.  I'm going to edit the .cfg file for my use.  Maybe it would help you out.

Thanks for doing this...planes before rockets = good.  It seems that the plane branch is too short/cheap to get to RAPIERs.  Seems like you could easily be flying into space vs rockets.

 

FYI, I wrote a bit of Python code to run through the GameData folder and make a list of parts that can be added to your tech tree.  It's kinda hacky but it works.

import os
import re

#put your path to game date here
pathToGameData = 'c:\Kerbal Space Program\GameData'

sExtension = re.compile('.*\.cfg$',re.IGNORECASE)
sPart = re.compile('\s*PART\s*')
sName = re.compile('\s*name\s*\=')
sTech = re.compile('\s*TechRequired\s*\=')
sSquad = re.compile("Squad")

dirTech = {}

for dirname, dirnames, filenames in os.walk(pathToGameData):
    bFileInDir = False
    if sSquad.search(dirname):
        continue
    for filename in filenames:
        if sExtension.match(filename):
            f = open(os.path.join(dirname, filename),encoding="utf8")
            line = f.readline()
            techReq = ""
            partName = ""
            #look for a part
            while line:
                if sPart.match(line):
                    if not bFileInDir:
                        bFileInDir = True
                        print("--------------------------------------")
                        print(dirname)
                    break
                line = f.readline()
            #look for the name
            while line:
                if sName.match(line):
                    (key,val) = line.split("=",1)
                    partName = val.strip()
                    break
                line = f.readline()
            #look for the tech
            while line:
                if sTech.match(line):
                    (key,val) = line.split("=",1)
                    techReq = val.strip()
                    break
                line = f.readline()
            if partName:
                print(partName + ":" + techReq)
                if techReq in dirTech:
                    dirTech[techReq].append(partName)
                else:
                    dirTech[techReq]=[partName]
            f.close()
            
print("\nList of Parts by Tech Required")
sorted_list=sorted(dirTech.items(), key=lambda x: x[0])
for key,val in sorted_list:
    print("\n+++++++++++++++++++++++++")
    print(key)
    for i in val:
        print(i,end="|")
            
            

 

Edited May 1, 2017 by tklenke

[ThePhoenixSol]

HEY! sorry for such a dead end on my end guys, as well as a huge sorry for not getting that update out with integrations. Had a lot going on from my end, along with a lot of PC issues that halted me for a while. We are finishing up work on adding Airplane+ and then I will post an update after that.

On 4/25/2017 at 6:41 PM, tklenke said:

Any chance you would want to post the mod on Github?  I'd be happy to fork it and add some parts from the Mods I'm using.  SCANSat, Vanguard Parachutes and KW Rocketry.  I'm going to edit the .cfg file for my use.  Maybe it would help you out.

Thanks for doing this...planes before rockets = good.  It seems that the plane branch is too short/cheap to get to RAPIERs.  Seems like you could easily be flying into space vs rockets.

 

FYI, I wrote a bit of Python code to run through the GameData folder and make a list of parts that can be added to your tech tree.  It's kinda hacky but it works.

import os
import re

#put your path to game date here
pathToGameData = 'c:\Kerbal Space Program\GameData'

sExtension = re.compile('.*\.cfg$',re.IGNORECASE)
sPart = re.compile('\s*PART\s*')
sName = re.compile('\s*name\s*\=')
sTech = re.compile('\s*TechRequired\s*\=')
sSquad = re.compile("Squad")

dirTech = {}

for dirname, dirnames, filenames in os.walk(pathToGameData):
    bFileInDir = False
    if sSquad.search(dirname):
        continue
    for filename in filenames:
        if sExtension.match(filename):
            f = open(os.path.join(dirname, filename),encoding="utf8")
            line = f.readline()
            techReq = ""
            partName = ""
            #look for a part
            while line:
                if sPart.match(line):
                    if not bFileInDir:
                        bFileInDir = True
                        print("--------------------------------------")
                        print(dirname)
                    break
                line = f.readline()
            #look for the name
            while line:
                if sName.match(line):
                    (key,val) = line.split("=",1)
                    partName = val.strip()
                    break
                line = f.readline()
            #look for the tech
            while line:
                if sTech.match(line):
                    (key,val) = line.split("=",1)
                    techReq = val.strip()
                    break
                line = f.readline()
            if partName:
                print(partName + ":" + techReq)
                if techReq in dirTech:
                    dirTech[techReq].append(partName)
                else:
                    dirTech[techReq]=[partName]
            f.close()
            
print("\nList of Parts by Tech Required")
sorted_list=sorted(dirTech.items(), key=lambda x: x[0])
for key,val in sorted_list:
    print("\n+++++++++++++++++++++++++")
    print(key)
    for i in val:
        print(i,end="|")
            
            

 

@tklenke Ill work on getting a github post up shortly after i release the next update. I appreciate any and all assistance in adding support for mods, though do note i will run passes over any community additions to make sure they conform to our current balance, and idea for the tech tree's organization.

[Errol]

Do you plan to support CTT? That would make your easier with adding many part mods, as they have their own nodes from CTT. I for one can say that I will only consider tech tree mods that have CTT suppport.

[ThePhoenixSol]

2 minutes ago, Errol said:

Do you plan to support CTT? That would make your easier with adding many part mods, as they have their own nodes from CTT. I for one can say that I will only consider tech tree mods that have CTT suppport.

Duley noted. I have considered it, but have not yet figured out how i wanted to support it. I plan to do so in the long run, but its on the back burner for the time being.

[Errol]

I would say just leave all the mods that CTT defines alone, and let CTT handle that for you. CTT does not touch any stock parts for exactly the reason that it can be easily integrated with other tech tree mods. All you have to worry about is stock part placement and balance, and any mod parts you want to add that are not already part of CTT.

The other nice thing about CTT is that it has a stock-alike balance, and creates a sort of standard balance for many mods to adhere to, since they all play together. 

Edited May 19, 2017 by Errol

[A_name]

I installed this with Vens Ctock Revamp. I suspect this messed it up. The first tier (the one you start with) doesn't have any probes, only the plane cockpits and the command seat. Is this normal? Is there any solution or is it just not compatible?

[The-Doctor]

Does this mod put solar energy and ion propulsion before nuclear power? I feel like solar electric propulsion should come before nuclear, enabling exploration of the inner planets when you're halfway in the tech tree and that nuclear power should come in late game to explore the outer solar system

[qzgy]

2 minutes ago, The-Doctor said:

Does this mod put solar energy and ion propulsion before nuclear power? I feel like solar electric propulsion should come before nuclear, enabling exploration of the inner planets when you're halfway in the tech tree and that nuclear power should come in late game to explore the outer solar system

Technically speaking, nuclear power came before ion engines. Project Rover, a plan to make a nuclear rocket started in 1955. The first successful ion thruster was in 1959, with solar panels on probes appearing the year before. However, the NERVA program came in 1961. So hmm.

If this is following a historical progression, it should be Nuclear, solar, electric.

 

But in all honesty, IDK when the stuff appears.

[The-Doctor]

2 minutes ago, qzgy said:

Technically speaking, nuclear power came before ion engines. Project Rover, a plan to make a nuclear rocket started in 1955. The first successful ion thruster was in 1959, with solar panels on probes appearing the year before. However, the NERVA program came in 1961. So hmm.

If this is following a historical progression, it should be Nuclear, solar, electric.

 

But in all honesty, IDK when the stuff appears.

you made the mod? Also is it updated to 1.3?

[qzgy]

Just now, The-Doctor said:

you made the mod? Also is it updated to 1.3?

No..... - I just looked up the history on wikipedia.

And I believe not.

Edited August 25, 2017 by qzgy

[The-Doctor]

Just now, qzgy said:

No..... - I just looked up the history on wikipedia.

And I believe not.

also the history doesn't matter, ion engines are in use and nuclear powered rockets with nuclear reactors have never been used, so getting SEP before nuclear power makes sense

[TheRagingIrishman]

15 hours ago, The-Doctor said:

also the history doesn't matter, ion engines are in use and nuclear powered rockets with nuclear reactors have never been used, so getting SEP before nuclear power makes sense

While nuclear engines have never flown, almost 50 nuclear reactors have been launched into orbit, mostly by Russia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_power_in_space) #accuratehistorymatters

Edited August 25, 2017 by TheRagingIrishman

[The-Doctor]

4 hours ago, TheRagingIrishman said:

While nuclear engines have never flown, almost 50 nuclear reactors have been launched into orbit, mostly by Russia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_power_in_space) #accuratehistorymatters

but have they been used on missions? Checkmate

[TheRagingIrishman]

6 minutes ago, The-Doctor said:

but have they been used on missions? Checkmate

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/US-A

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kosmos_1818

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kosmos_1867

[The-Doctor]

3 hours ago, TheRagingIrishman said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/US-A

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kosmos_1818

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kosmos_1867

Ok I rest my case, BUT, have they ever been used on more than 3 missions! HAHAHAH, CHECKMATE!  

[DatBoi]

Any plans to update this TT? Seems like a nice idea.