KSP Weekly: That Pale Blue Dot

[Sirad]

On 12.11.2016 at 5:17 AM, Errol said:

When do we get to hear about progress on an official release of the (?porkjet) rocket parts update?

never.

 

[Superfluous J]

9 hours ago, klgraham1013 said:

it should probably be apparent by now that [Flying Tiger] can't manage the situation and Squad should step in.

Considering most posts in this thread that aren't complaining about mismanagement of the console release are complaining about mismanagement of the PC release, I don't think this would help much.

[AlphaMensae]

On 11/13/2016 at 4:13 PM, Higgs said:

Still no mention on the made full stock of porkjets rocket part revamp....disconcerting to say the least.

 

On 11/13/2016 at 4:20 PM, HoloYolo said:

Porkjet left and with him took whatever hopes there were for revamped parts.

Yup, not sure why people are still asking about this, what Porkjet completed before he left was released as a separate addon, a mod basically.  End of story.  What's in the PartOverhauls pack is all there is and will be. No Porkpart revamp is coming in stock.  And all signs point to NO revamp at all, aside from some colliders being fixed, though a cryptic comment from Roverdude on his own Twitch stream just after 1.2 released said there will be some new parts coming.

[DMagic]

I'm fairly certain they said explicitly that Porkjet's part overhaul won't be further developed in a recent SquadCast (I don't think there was one last week, and I'm pretty sure it wasn't from the week before, so that leaves only a couple of hours to sift through...).

[passinglurker]

31 minutes ago, DMagic said:

I'm fairly certain they said explicitly that Porkjet's part overhaul won't be further developed in a recent SquadCast (I don't think there was one last week, and I'm pretty sure it wasn't from the week before, so that leaves only a couple of hours to sift through...).

squad cast is a great place to bury things in the hours and hours of footage where they don't answer questions. They should put thier explicit statements in a devnote or some other official forum announcement.

Edited November 15, 2016 by passinglurker

[Higgs]

On November 13, 2016 at 4:22 PM, passinglurker said:

it would be nice if they actually addressed this in a devnote or official announcement of some sort instead of expecting us to dig through stray forum comments and hours of squadcast footage

The fact they are saying nothing is far worse. They are as a point of fact leaving themselves open to false advertising litigation by not addressing this. Squad claimed, hyped and stated porkjets revamps on rocket parts were to be stock. They then made them a mod and went silent. 

This is a path to litigation on what looks to be false advertising. Not opinion but fact.

[Kerbart]

22 minutes ago, Higgs said:

This is a path to litigation on what looks to be false advertising. Not opinion but fact.

Thanks for the laugh. I needed that!

[Higgs]

@Kerbart They ADVERTISED & hyped porkjets revamp as being STOCK. They then made them a mod. You know as well as i do, some people cant or wont mod. Scoff if it makes you happy, but do not ignore truth for what it is.

[stibbons]

Link to an advertisement using these proposed additions as a selling point?

[Raptor9]

12 hours ago, Majorjim! said:

I like you dude but that is laughable. We paid them.

Yes, we paid them.  We paid them once for a game in it's current state at the time of our purchase.  AFAIK, no version of KSP has come with a promise or legal contract to continually develop the game and release free updates indefinitely following purchase.  Squad has said repeatedly that development won't stop, but no one has any leg to stand on when arguing that they should get more product beyond what their original purchase entailed.  That's like ordering a burger, and then demanding that the vendor add bacon, cheese and a side of fries free of charge after the purchase is complete.

12 hours ago, Majorjim! said:

The main anger is from console players that PAID full price for a game that is genuinely unplayable, from day one and continues to be so..

To be clear, I am referring to demands that Squad release [insert feature here] for free, or complaints that an existing feature be changed or removed (which requires development time as well), not game-breaking bugs that prevent players from using the game as intended (ie save files).  I empathize with the console users that have significant issues with KSP, but hasn't it been repeatedly pointed out the Flying Tiger are responsible for those ports??

All I'm suggesting is that people attempt to maintain some perspective when demanding information on what free update they want next.  And by "biting the hand that feeds us", I meant specifically jumping on Squad's back every time they announce something that isn't liked.  Eventually, it's human nature to just stop putting information out there when all it does is cause backlash.

Edited November 15, 2016 by Raptor9

[Higgs]

Truth in Advertising also covers features of a product. As such official communications making claims of specific features being advertised as becoming stock items are covered by these laws. 

As such this issue technically qualifies.

[stibbons]

Citation needed.

[Deddly]

4 hours ago, Higgs said:

This is a path to litigation on what looks to be false advertising. Not opinion but fact.

Ok, for everyone who's been wondering why we don't hear more from Squad about planned features or a roadmap, this sort of comment should make it clear to you. 

They say "Hey guys and gals, you know what? We're going to add some new features to that game you already paid for. We don't have to, of course, but you're such an awesome community and we want this game to be everything it can be."

A few months later, we haven't heard much about one or two of the planned features and someone is threatening legal action. There are absolutely no grounds for litigation, but the fact that someone would even suggest it as a possibility can help the rest of us understand why Squad maybe choose to be quiet about the future from time to time.

[Adelaar]

@Deddly, that may be the case. But what we now have is a situation where the voices that yell "FIRE AND BRIMSTONE" are not silenced by the majority of dedicated forum members, because they don't know what's going on either. I do not mind Squad being silent, but I do miss the immersion and the little bites they offered that kept us enthousiastic. So now that multiple dev's have left and Squad has gotten silent, people tend to start thinking something bad is going on (and why shouldn't they?). The reason why this is important to recognise is because KSP IS the community. I've always advocated KSP to others, banging about why they should play this game. But I've fallen silent, since I don't know what Squad has in store for us, I cannot advocate it to others. So, even though Squad may rightfully choose to remain silent, they are to consider the effects (positive and negative) of remaining silent versus the effects of sharing information, even though in the end that information may only partially be true.

As for legal action, don't make me laugh. If there are [people] here that are upset because they got something else than they've been told and in sheer anger about that threaten legal action the answer is simple: A game's development like many things under development is an iterative process where the final result is seldom what is conjured up at first. Everybody has to recognise that. Even when regarding such promises as "legal advertisement", every sensible human being knows or should know that the end product may turn out different.

Edited November 15, 2016 by Deddly

[Deddly]

@Adelaar, you don't have any argument from me on those points. (Except for one word that I hope you don't mind me editing to "people" )

Although I would say that KSP is a great game as is and I, personally, will continue recommending it to my friends no matter what happens with the development in the future.

[Adelaar]

@Deddly, haha, sorry about that. You're right, but I tend to take on the "Devil's advocate" stance from time to times, so even though I'll continue loving this game, I do recognise that people are frustrated and I find it to be a missed opportunity that Squad doesn't act on those feelings.

Edited November 15, 2016 by Adelaar

[Majorjim!]

11 hours ago, Raptor9 said:

Yes, we paid them.  We paid them once for a game in it's current state at the time of our purchase.  AFAIK, no version of KSP has come with a promise or legal contract to continually develop the game and release free updates indefinitely following purchase.  Squad has said repeatedly that development won't stop, but no one has any leg to stand on when arguing that they should get more product beyond what their original purchase entailed.  That's like ordering a burger, and then demanding that the vendor add bacon, cheese and a side of fries free of charge after the purchase is complete.

To be clear, I am referring to demands that Squad release [insert feature here] for free, or complaints that an existing feature be changed or removed (which requires development time as well), not game-breaking bugs that prevent players from using the game as intended (ie save files).  I empathize with the console users that have significant issues with KSP, but hasn't it been repeatedly pointed out the Flying Tiger are responsible for those ports??

All I'm suggesting is that people attempt to maintain some perspective when demanding information on what free update they want next.  And by "biting the hand that feeds us", I meant specifically jumping on Squad's back every time they announce something that isn't liked.  Eventually, it's human nature to just stop putting information out there when all it does is cause backlash.

I was referring exclusively to the console version of the game in my comments. Perhaps we have crossed wires in both our meanings. KSP on PC is, was and will continue to be the best game I have ever played in terms of wonder, excitement and sheer value for money. I just wish our console cousins could have the same experience.

[Benoit Hage]

10 hours ago, Deddly said:

Ok, for everyone who's been wondering why we don't hear more from Squad about planned features or a roadmap, this sort of comment should make it clear to you. 

They say "Hey guys and gals, you know what? We're going to add some new features to that game you already paid for. We don't have to, of course, but you're such an awesome community and we want this game to be everything it can be."

A few months later, we haven't heard much about one or two of the planned features and someone is threatening legal action. There are absolutely no grounds for litigation, but the fact that someone would even suggest it as a possibility can help the rest of us understand why Squad maybe choose to be quiet about the future from time to time.

No one has threaten Squad of anything here. There is just someone who thinks that false advertisement is illegal even if there is none displayed in this situation.

As for Squad being silence about their future content due to "this", I would like to read you about the console port and Squad silence about it. Is it also because of us?

 

 

[Deddly]

Don't worry, @Benoit Hage, I was only referring to the comments about the Porkjet parts and other planned features for the future. I don't think there's anyone on these forums who would argue that we've been flooded with information about the upcoming console fix.

[Higgs]

<cracks his neck, lets out a slow breath>

@Deddly I hope i picked up a misheard tone, but, for the record: i find the lack of ANY word, even if its just a "hey guys we hear you, stay tuned" disturbing. I NEVER suggested anyone sue. But the fact remains advertising features then switching from everyone gets to you get if you mod can be seen as dishonest at best.

i for one, on public record want to see it stock and am appalled its not stock and only available as a mod. Why? Everyone deserves equal access to the revamp, but not everyone can mod or refuses to or are at a hard cap on mods they can use and thusly are excluded. Feels almost elitist to me. Do I hope it becomes stock? Absolutely. Do I advocate a suit over this? No. Do I see how one COULD happen? Yes.

Again it feels like you twisted my point. I hope I am wrong. 

Edited November 16, 2016 by Higgs

[stibbons]

Citation still needed.

[Kerbart]

On 11/14/2016 at 9:54 PM, stibbons said:

Link to an advertisement using these proposed additions as a selling point?

I think I found it!

[Kerbart]

On 11/14/2016 at 9:52 PM, Higgs said:

@Kerbart They ADVERTISED & hyped porkjets revamp as being STOCK. They then made them a mod. You know as well as i do, some people cant or wont mod. Scoff if it makes you happy, but do not ignore truth for what it is.

One: Seriously, mentioning "that it is worked on" in a Squadcast is not advertising. It's a comment on ongoing development. Schedules change, goals get moved, all for reasons. I doubt anyone would take whatever is said in a Squadcast as gospel, let alone interpret it in such a way that it's the reason to buy the game in the first place.

Two: I look forward to see an actual advertisement that includes phrases like “now with Porkjet's modified Part Pack™” or even something that remotely looks like it. Squad hardly puts any hard claims in their advertisements regarding features, let alone such specific ones.

Three: and now we're getting way, way deep in Fantasyland. Imagine finding such overhyped claims. Now you have to file a lawsuit. Will you be willing to spend thousands of dollars on getting your $30 back? Assuming the judge doesn't laugh you out of court in the first place?

Take a good look at No Man's Sky. Look at all the videos that were made during development of the game. Look at how ticked off customers are because the game isn't close to what was displayed in the videos earlier released. I think we can all agree that compared to KSP, the promises made for NMS where much, much further away from the game than what we see in KSP. And then read this article. In case you don't, here are some quotes: “Given how impractical it would be to prove any of these claims, it's highly unlikely the ASA will advise any sort of blanket refund or remuneration.” Aah, but that's a British organization. Surely litigation will by much more successful in the US, land of the lawyer sharks? “Under American law, I don't think they've broken the law," he tells us. Rather, he attributes the frustration and disappointment surrounding No Man's Sky to a misinterpretation of the marketing material”

Of course the situation of KSP is different, but the claim that you can take Squad to court for a refund (and perhaps damages?) and win based on false advertising isn't remotely fact. It's opinion. A very wishful thinking opinion. But by all means sink thousands of dollars into that venture and let us know how it works out.

And as @Deddly points out, litigation about "misleading advertising" over what was said in a Squadcast... will be a remarkably effective way to kill the Squadcasts completely. Not that they're rich in information for starters, at this point...

[Deddly]

Sorry if my point came across as confrontational, @Higgs. It wasn't intended that way.

[jarmund]

On 11/12/2016 at 1:22 AM, SQUAD said:

We also worked on a new feature to get the default keyboard bindings based on the keyboard layout.

Finally native dvorak support?