War Discussion Forum Group

[tater]

A few WW2 Pacific titles for you:

 

Shattered Sword: The Untold Story of the Battle of Midway

Fabulous history of the battle that breaks many long-held US myths about it. Just terrific.

 

Combined Fleet Decoded: The Secret History of American Intelligence and the Japanese Navy in World War II

Another great book, less narrative than the one above, but filled with fascinating stuff for a hardcore PTO goon.

 

Guadalcanal: The Definitive Account of the Landmark Battle

The subtitle says it all. Really the definitive book.

 

Silent Victory: The U.S. Submarine War against Japan (Bluejacket Books)

The entire Pacific war as fought by the US "Silent Service."

 

Pig boats: The true story of the fighting submariners of World War II (Bantam war books)

A look into the lives of the men fighting in obsolescent S boats in the Western Pacific at the start of the war. Not big picture, very personal and evocative.

 

Downfall: The End of the Imperial Japanese Empire

Endgame in Japan, largely from the Japanese POV. Debunks many myths about how willing the Japanese were to surrender (they weren't).

 

Tennozan: The Battle of Okinawa and the Atomic Bomb by George Feifer (18-Sep-1997) Hardcover

Really about Okinawa, but the end uses the lessons of Okinawa to illuminate the know Japanese plans to fight an invasion force on the home islands. 

 

The next two are VERY geeky:

The First Team: Pacific Naval Air Combat from Pearl Harbor to Midway

The First Team and the Guadalcanal Campaign: Naval Fighter Combat from August to November 1942

These are nitty gritty accounts of almost every USN sortie during the time periods covered. The downing of a number of Betty bombers by O'Hare (the airport in Chicago is named for him) goes down in detail to which particular planes were fired upon, including even the names of the Japanese gunner, etc on the aircraft. Meticulous.

 

Edited November 22, 2016 by tater

[The Space Dino]

That's a lot of books.

Most of mine are biographies but there are some like yours too.

[tater]

I have a pretty decent library downstairs. Several hundred history books, anyway.

[Dman979]

I just started The Two Ocean War, about the USN during WWII.

I also recommend the Liberation Trilogy, by Rick Atkinson. The first book won a Pulitzer.

I also read The Yom Kippur War, by Abraham Rabinovich. If history books were written like novels, this would be on the top 10.

1 hour ago, tater said:

Good WW1 books would be Storm of Steel, Now it can be told, and The Guns of August. If you want a great podcast, try Dan Carlin's Hardcore History ww1 series, "Blueprint for Armageddon "

The Guns of August is on my shortlist to read soon.

Retribution, by Max Hastings, is very good.

Edited November 22, 2016 by Dman979
Wrong title for a book

[tater]

Yeah, I read the N Africa one by him.

[Dman979]

Just now, tater said:

Yeah, I read the N Africa one by him.

I can't recommend enough the other two books- The Day of Battle, about Italy and Sicily, and The Guns at Last Light, about the Western Allies in Europe.

[The Space Dino]

33 minutes ago, tater said:

I have a pretty decent library downstairs. Several hundred history books, anyway.

Hundreds?

I barely have 20.

I have some on D-Day that I'm going to read, but I will have to finish a NASA one I am reading now

[pTrevTrevs]

Oh boy, war stuff! So what, is this thread just here for people to discuss military history and stuff? I'm in.

Medieval and Napoleonic/Victorian warfare are probably my favorites, with submarine warfare coming in a close third.

[tater]

Napoleonic, particularly at sea, is another favorite area for me.

[Dman979]

My brother is a huge Napoleonic geek. I think he's read The Campaigns of Napoleonat least 5 times.

Me? Not so much. ONly how it relates to the American Civil War.

[tater]

Read the Patrick O'Brian Aubrey/Maturin novels, and you'll be hooked. A lot is lifted from the life of Lord Cochrane... great read. A friend lent me Master and Commander (the movie is a hodgepodge of multiple books, mostly the 10th I think, nothing like the first book), and I proceeded to read all 20 scary fast. I was staying up late and reading almost 1 a day.

[Dman979]

Master and Commander was a good movie. Will the books be good, too?

[pTrevTrevs]

4 minutes ago, Dman979 said:

Master and Commander was a good movie. Will the books be good, too?

*cough*

Its the only Russell Crowe movie I've ever liked.

[The Space Dino]

I'm only interested in WWII. Modern stuff is too boring, Napoleon-era stuff is too old for me.

And with the addition of @pTrevTrevs, this group has reached 10 members! Well, that was fast.

 

Edited November 22, 2016 by The Space Dino

[tater]

22 minutes ago, Dman979 said:

Master and Commander was a good movie. Will the books be good, too?

The movie was quite decent. The books are great. Most of the actions are real actions, fictionalized. The first book (eponymous with the movie, though entirely different in plot) is about Aubrey's cruise in the Med in a much smaller vessel than Surprise, called Sophie. Loads of action. Stephen is far, far more developed in the books, it's 50/50 Jack and Stephen.

11 minutes ago, The Space Dino said:

I'm only interested in WWII. Modern stuff is too boring, Napoleon-era stuff is too old for me.

I started out as a WW2 guy. First the air war in the ETO, then branched out. I love naval stuff, so the PTO is where all the action is. The German submarine war is sort of interesting, but the USN did what Germany never could do, they virtually wiped out, well, all Japanese shipping. By the end of the war they were hunting 400 ton "sea trucks" for lack of targets.

I have found that games can be a good entrée into different historical periods. The game isn't super accurate, but try Empire: Total War some time (it's gotta scream on a modern machine). Also, the sea warfare stuff is more fun for me. Not so much pitched naval engagements as frigate actions, etc. Horatio Hornblower (more Age of sail fiction) is also fun---FWIW, Star Trek was originally pitched (successfully) as "Horatio Hornblower in space"

[NSEP]

2 hours ago, The Space Dino said:

I'm only interested in WWII. Modern stuff is too boring, Napoleon-era stuff is too old for me.

I am currently more interested in WWI, because tanks and other vehicles where new and just made so they look and behave very differently.

My main focus now are the vehicles used in the war.

[Dman979]

7 hours ago, tater said:

Later tonight I will list a few quite good books (I'll admit that they will be biased towards WW2 PTO, a particular area of interest to me (though I'm reading a history of the Armada at the moment).

Is it called The Armada? My dad read it when he was younger, and he said it's what gave him a love of history. I also read it, but it wasn't exactly my favorite book.

[tater]

5 hours ago, Dman979 said:

Is it called The Armada? My dad read it when he was younger, and he said it's what gave him a love of history. I also read it, but it wasn't exactly my favorite book.

By Mattingly? Yeah, it's quite decent (I know little of the Elizabethan era, so much of it is news to me).

[Ten Key]

Some books on the subject that I enjoyed. . .

Neptune's Inferno: The U.S. Navy at Guadalcanal -- There is a long standing narrative that the US Navy abandoned the Marines at Guadalcanal, and this book is in some ways a counterargument to that. As such, the writing can be defensive at times and a bit preachy at others. Nevertheless, it is a fascinating description of night engagements between surface combatants grappling with old tactics and emerging technologies. 

Death Traps: The Survival of an American Armored Division in World War II -- Written by Lieutenant Belton Cooper, an ordnance liaison officer who served with the 3rd Armored Division's Maintenance Battalion in Europe during WWII, Death Traps recounts in detail the activities and challenges involved in keeping tanks moving and fighting when there often is no real front line or back field. One thing I found interesting is that while Lt. Cooper is very vocal in his opinion that the M4 was a "death trap" that should have been shelved in favor of the M26, I think he inadvertently makes the case that sticking with the M4 was the right decision. Filled front-to-back with interesting stories and anecdotes, this was a good, engaging read.

The Battle of the Tanks: Kursk, 1943 -- This one has mixed reviews, much of which can be boiled down to the fact that the title is a bit misleading-- while the battle for Kursk is covered, it is not the exclusive focus of the book. The author spends a considerable amount of time setting the stage for the battle, and I found it to be a good primer for an area of WWII that is not often covered in detail in Western schools. The sheer scale of it. . .

And on that note, anyone who has not seen this yet, needs to. 

http://www.fallen.io/ww2/

 

Edited November 22, 2016 by Ten Key
typo

[NorthernDevo]

Umm....after reading the thread, I understand the focus of the thread but the title "War Interest" seriously jarred me.

I know there are other combat veterans out there; not sure if they would agree with me; each has their own personal opinion. MY opinion is it is something to be avoided at all costs; that it is the last resort of the incompetent politicians to find a less extreme solution. If it is the first resort well...then it is even less desirable. I have seen both; first-hand. The cost is beyond measure; not in terms of dollars but in civilian lives and cultural stability. As a Patricia; I am sworn to protect civilians and the damage that was wrought to them in Bosnia and Afghanistan was unimaginable.

Just please consider that for those who fought, war is not academic or interesting; it is horrible, personal and frightening. Cool gadgets and nifty documentaries are nice; they do not change the horror, bloodshed and destruction of war.

 

[The Space Dino]

4 hours ago, Ten Key said:

Some books on the subject that I enjoyed. . .

Neptune's Inferno: The U.S. Navy at Guadalcanal 

-snip-

 

Hang on, I have that book!

20 minutes ago, NorthernDevo said:

Umm....after reading the thread, I understand the focus of the thread but the title "War Interest" seriously jarred me.

I know there are other combat veterans out there; not sure if they would agree with me; each has their own personal opinion. MY opinion is it is something to be avoided at all costs; that it is the last resort of the incompetent politicians to find a less extreme solution. If it is the first resort well...then it is even less desirable. I have seen both; first-hand. The cost is beyond measure; not in terms of dollars but in civilian lives and cultural stability. As a Patricia; I am sworn to protect civilians and the damage that was wrought to them in Bosnia and Afghanistan was unimaginable.

Just please consider that for those who fought, war is not academic or interesting; it is horrible, personal and frightening. Cool gadgets and nifty documentaries are nice; they do not change the horror, bloodshed and destruction of war.

 

Time for another change of the title.

[HoloYolo]

40 minutes ago, NorthernDevo said:

Umm....after reading the thread, I understand the focus of the thread but the title "War Interest" seriously jarred me.

I know there are other combat veterans out there; not sure if they would agree with me; each has their own personal opinion. MY opinion is it is something to be avoided at all costs; that it is the last resort of the incompetent politicians to find a less extreme solution. If it is the first resort well...then it is even less desirable. I have seen both; first-hand. The cost is beyond measure; not in terms of dollars but in civilian lives and cultural stability. As a Patricia; I am sworn to protect civilians and the damage that was wrought to them in Bosnia and Afghanistan was unimaginable.

Just please consider that for those who fought, war is not academic or interesting; it is horrible, personal and frightening. Cool gadgets and nifty documentaries are nice; they do not change the horror, bloodshed and destruction of war.

 

I know war is terrible, but learning about it will expose the true horrors of it, and maybe it could help us avoid it.

[tater]

Military History would certainly cover it. 

The idea, however, that extremes of the human condition are somehow not interesting I think is simply not true. That's exactly what makes it so interesting. WW1, for example, while demonstrably less nasty than WW2 for the guys at the sharp end in terms of mortality, was never the less, horrific in a way that I have trouble even imagining. That's exactly what I seek out histories of that (and other) conflicts that are not at the "division chits on a map" level, but at the human level. Storm of Steel, listed above, is just such a work. It's a horrific account by the guy who somehow managed to survive it.

 

 

[The Space Dino]

Aww... ran out of likes

[NSEP]

6 hours ago, The Space Dino said:

Aww... ran out of likes

Me too ):