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[KSP 1.12.1+] Galileo's Planet Pack [v1.6.6] [23 Sept 2021]


Galileo

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I must say - it is am impressive sight to re-enter the atmosphere by passing through a 60km high, 10 km thick cloud deck which just clears the summit of a 35-40km volcano, all at 7.5 km/s with Jeb trying to figure out whether or not there were mushrooms in his space rations!

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3 hours ago, MaxL_1023 said:

What I am not sure about is the atmospheres. Could I find the scale heights anywhere? That way, I can write my own pressure curves to keep the atmosphere heights reasonable instead of hitting a wall at 70km. I know in stock scale the exponential curve is truncated somehow, and I want to avoid this to make re-entry more realistic.

Unfortunately it is not as simple as just giving you the scale heights because the scale heights are not constant.  Each atmosphere was given a temperature-height profile, a surface pressure, and molar mass.  The pressure-height curve was then computed from gas laws using numerical integration.  If you want to know all the details, you can read about it here:

However, you really don't need to concern yourself with all that.  My method for a producing realistic atmospheres is to size up the KSP body to life-sized proportions (10x radius, 100x mass), develop an atmospheric model to fit the characteristics of the life-sized body, and then scale the atmosphere down to a height more appropriate for KSP.  The height factor that I use is 0.8 (this is because stock Kerbin is based on 0.8 times Earth's standard atmosphere).

So what you are trying to do is just reverse the process that I already went through.  To reverse the 0.8 factor, you want to have Sigma Dimensions use an atmosphere factor of 1.25.  This will make my atmospheric models perfectly suited for bodies resized by a factor of 10.

However, you may need to add another step.  The upper atmospheres in stock-sized KSP are designed for spacecraft entering at velocities much slower than real life.  At Kerbin or Gael you might hit the atmosphere going 3.5 km/s, while at 10x you'll be entering at 11 km/s.  At that speed you may find that it's like hitting a sudden wall of air.  You may want to extrapolate my pressure curves farther out to provide a deeper atmosphere so that the heat and pressure builds up more gradually.

Below is Gael's pressure curve:

			pressureCurve
			{
				key = 0 101.325 0 -0.0150837
				key = 1000 87.2020 -0.0132081 -0.0132081
				key = 3000 63.9899 -0.0101333 -0.0101333
				key = 6000 38.9849 -0.00673315 -0.00673315
				key = 9000 22.6271 -0.00429191 -0.00429191
				key = 12000 12.5591 -0.00253586 -0.00253586
				key = 15000 6.81764 -0.00138393 -0.00138393
				key = 20000 2.54022 -0.000487144 -0.000487144
				key = 25000 0.998086 -0.000181456 -0.000181456
				key = 30000 0.412750 -7.07098E-05 -7.07098E-05
				key = 35000 0.180048 -2.89531E-05 -2.89531E-05
				key = 40000 0.0818694 -1.27710E-05 -1.27710E-05
				key = 45000 0.0370931 -6.02348E-06 -6.02348E-06
				key = 50000 0.0159849 -2.79241E-06 -2.79241E-06
				key = 55000 0.00644408 -1.21769E-06 -1.21769E-06
				key = 60000 0.00242266 -4.88645E-07 -4.88645E-07
				key = 63000 0.00131259 -2.70937E-07 -2.70937E-07
				key = 70000 0 0 0
			}

From 0 to 63000 meters the atmospheric pressure decreases naturally with increasing height.  It is only the last part, from 63000  to 70000 meters, that the pressure is forced to taper off to zero.  What you may want to do is add more keys above 63000 and take the atmosphere out to whatever height you want to make it.  I don't know what the right answer is, but let's say we push the upper edge out 20% to 84000 meters.  And let's add one key between 63000 and 84000, say at 75000 meters.  You can estimate the pressure at 75000 by extrapolating from the given data.  You'll probably end up with something that looks this:

			pressureCurve
			{
				...
				key = 63000 0.00131259 -2.70937E-07 -2.70937E-07
				key = 75000 0.0001 -2E-08 -2E-08
				key = 84000 0 0 0
			}

Recall now that these altitudes are going to factored by 1.25, so the above atmosphere will end at a height of 84000 x 1.25 = 105,000 meters.  You may have to experiment to find the atmosphere height that provides the behavior that you're looking for.

If you do this, be sure to also extrapolate temperatureCurve and temperatureSunMultCurve, which also end at 70000 meters, out to the new height.  Also change the attitude parameter.

The example here was for Gael, but the steps will be the same for the other bodies.
 

Edited by OhioBob
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Thanks - that seems reasonable. I did not know you had the scale height function at 0.8x realistic - it does explain a few things. 

Funnily enough, it seems like the heat is not that bad with the sigma scaling - it must already be compensated for. The G-forces are quite severe though even on a very flat entry angle - I suspect that atmosphere scaling is responsible. I will set atmosphere height to 1.25 and see if I need to mess with pressure curves from there. 

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4 minutes ago, MaxL_1023 said:

Thanks - that seems reasonable. I did not know you had the scale height function at 0.8x realistic - it does explain a few things. 

Funnily enough, it seems like the heat is not that bad with the sigma scaling - it must already be compensated for. The G-forces are quite severe though even on a very flat entry angle - I suspect that atmosphere scaling is responsible. I will set atmosphere height to 1.25 and see if I need to mess with pressure curves from there. 

Yeah, there's no need to modify the curves if you like the way it behaves with atmosphere = 1.25.

The 0.8 factor came from Squad when they released KSP 1.0.  That's when they completely redid the drag and atmosphere models.  Prior to that atmospheres assumed a constant scale height.  They ended when the atmospheric pressure dropped to some percentage of the sea level value.  Kerbin's atmosphere ended up being somewhere around 70 km.  With the release of KSP 1.0, Kerbin's atmosphere was now modeled on the U.S. Standard Atmosphere, which goes to a height of 86 km.  I'm pretty sure the decision to factor the model by 0.8 was just to keep the atmosphere at about the same height it had been in the beta version, i.e. 86 x 0.8 = 68.8 km rounded off to 70 km.  I use that same factor for all my atmospheres to be consistent with the Kerbin model.

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It does make sense either way - in RSS you usually don't notice atmospheric heating or significant drag until near or under 100 km, maybe 105-110km if you are approaching from the Moon or Interplanetary space. The 1.25 factor should reduce my G-load to something that doesn't turn Jeb into a pancake, especially since the stock pods can't offset for a lifting re-entry. 

I used to like coming in from the Moon in RSS on a lifting path, then rolling at PE to use the atmospheric lift to keep me at close to a steady height. I would be doing a 10 km/s forced orbit at 60 KM, decelerating at 3-4 G's until I dropped below orbital velocity. I just came in from Iota in a Mk I pod and pulled about 15 G with an entry PE of about 35 KM - any higher and I was afraid I would skip off the atmosphere.

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Thanks to all of you for the insane amount of time and love you put into this mod! It was a privilege to show this off today in my stream and have some of you stop in and answer questions! I will definitely be continuing with it in my streams and will showcase it at the end of my broadcast on KSPTV on Tuesday. Hopefully I can help get you guys the recognition you deserve for creating this!

Galileo's Planet Porn!

RT34o2o.png  

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Just realized @Galileo that there are no install instructions in the OP i.e. required mods etc. With the increased exposure, you may want to add it all in to avoid silly support request. 

Also, watching back at RocketPCGaming's stream, can you confirm that Scatterer was being applied properly?

Edited by Poodmund
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2 hours ago, JadeOfMaar said:

Yeah, for performance reasons. You're not the only one to get thrown by that.

The performance gain from them being turned off really isn't that great,  so maybe I should turn them on next time I update something

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Hi! I am from the team of the RemoteTech mod. I am following up on multiple bug reports by RT players on planets' conflicting body IDs when using planet-package and RT mods. You may be interested in our new support for MM patches to modify our default settings (included the body ID). We have a new manual page on a patch for a player using your and RT mods.

Please disregard this post if your mod does not change the Kerbin's body ID of 1.

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7 minutes ago, TaxiService said:

Hi! I am from the team of the RemoteTech mod. I am following up on multiple bug reports by RT players on planets' conflicting body IDs when using planet-package and RT mods. You may be interested in our new support for MM patches to modify our default settings (included the body ID). We have a new manual page on a patch for a player using your and RT mods.

Please disregard this post if your mod does not change the Kerbin's body ID of 1.

This planet pack starts of by deleting every body in the stock system and all the bodies are created anew. Gael is currently assigned the GFI number of 64 so i guess there are no Ground Stations assigned upon start and therefore RT is wigging out something rotten.

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17 minutes ago, TaxiService said:

Hi! I am from the team of the RemoteTech mod. I am following up on multiple bug reports by RT players on planets' conflicting body IDs when using planet-package and RT mods. You may be interested in our new support for MM patches to modify our default settings (included the body ID). We have a new manual page on a patch for a player using your and RT mods.

Please disregard this post if your mod does not change the Kerbin's body ID of 1.

Gaels is a re-textured clone of kerbin and uses the ID of 1. I have included a patch for GPP with the correct coordinates for ksc and it should be working fine.  I haven't heard anything otherwise, unless they are just running to the RT thread to report bugs. 

Edited by Galileo
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@Galileo, and everyone else involved with this mod... a couple questions.

I'm creating a GPP install of KSP and am wondering about the compatibility of a couple-four mods.  I just copied my modded 1.2.1 install and deleted those mods that are already bundled with GPP, and also checked out Jade's list of recommended/compatible/etc. mods.  The mods I have questions about are:

[x] Science! - http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/107661-ksp-121-x-science-ksp-science-report-and-checklist-v53/

KEI - http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/143433-ksp-121-kei-kerbin-environmental-institute121-2016-11-03/

Planet Wiki - http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/141072-11x-planet-wiki-v4-october-9-2016/

Gravity Turn Continued - http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/148448-12x175-gravityturn-continued-automated-efficient-launches/

Does anyone know which of these are compatible, if any, or is this something I should bring up at their respective pages?

I'm especially wondering about KEI, since GPP has a different KSC from stock.  It's not a big deal if I need to farm science manually around KSC, but it DOES get a bit tedious.

[x] Science! says it supports custom biomes, so I'm assuming it will work, but was just wondering.  I mainly play a science game, with a smidge of sandbox (for testing purposes) and have never started a career game.  So this particular mod is somewhat important to me.

I'm assuming Planet Wiki will need an add-on, similar to the OPM mod PW add-on.

Gravity Turn, while not completely necessary, is like KEI in that it removes some of the tedium of launches.  Right now, it's set up with values for Kerbin, Mun, Minmus, and Duna.  The latter three I realize are right out with GPP, but aside from the inclination change of KSC, I'm assuming that GT will be able to handle a launch from the new KSC.  As for the rest of the planets and moons in GPP, would it be better if I were to ask AndyMT to look into it?

Last question: Even if these mods aren't supported by GPP, or vice-versa, is there any harm in leaving them installed for possible future updates, or should I just remove them?

Thanks in advance for any advice.

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19 minutes ago, MaxxQ said:

Gravity Turn, while not completely necessary, is like KEI in that it removes some of the tedium of launches.  Right now, it's set up with values for Kerbin, Mun, Minmus, and Duna.  The latter three I realize are right out with GPP, but aside from the inclination change of KSC, I'm assuming that GT will be able to handle a launch from the new KSC.  As for the rest of the planets and moons in GPP, would it be better if I were to ask AndyMT to look into it?

Gravity Turn uses just your desired "hold x seconds to apoapsis" and "final altitude". Works just fine. There is however some aggressive overcompensation from inclination correction.

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1 minute ago, SkyKaptn said:

Gravity Turn uses just your desired "hold x seconds to apoapsis" and "final altitude". Works just fine. There is however some aggressive overcompensation from inclination correction.

Thanks.  I've been following the GT thread, and I believe the overcompensation has been more or less fixed (or at least, greatly reduced), at least from a Kerbin KSC launch that includes an inclination change in the launch sequence.

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@MaxxQ, Gravity Turn definitely works because that's what I used when determining the launch Δv for the Δv map.  However, I can't say for sure how good its guesses will be when trying to improve the trajectory.  I really didn't use that feature, I made my own adjustments when seeking out the optimum settings/trajectory.  Gravity Turn should do very well with Gael, and I suspect it will do as well for most other bodies as it does for the stock bodies.  However, I've got my doubts about a body like Catullus.  Catullus atmosphere is unlike anything in the stock game and I'm not sure Gravity Turn's decisions on how to improve the trajectory are going to be correct.  Many of the settings I had to use for Catullus went in the opposite direction of what Gravity Turn customarily does.

I certainly recommend that you give Gravity Turn a try.  The autopilot feature most definitely works, and I think the self-learn feature will probably work in most cases.  And if the self-learn feature isn't getting you where you need to be fast enough, override it and try out your own settings.

I'm afraid I can't offer any advice about the other mods you mention, I'm not familiar with them.
 

Edited by OhioBob
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1 hour ago, MaxxQ said:

@Galileo, and everyone else involved with this mod... a couple questions.

I'm creating a GPP install of KSP and am wondering about the compatibility of a couple-four mods.  I just copied my modded 1.2.1 install and deleted those mods that are already bundled with GPP, and also checked out Jade's list of recommended/compatible/etc. mods.  The mods I have questions about are:

[x] Science! - http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/107661-ksp-121-x-science-ksp-science-report-and-checklist-v53/

KEI - http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/143433-ksp-121-kei-kerbin-environmental-institute121-2016-11-03/

Planet Wiki - http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/141072-11x-planet-wiki-v4-october-9-2016/

Gravity Turn Continued - http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/148448-12x175-gravityturn-continued-automated-efficient-launches/

Does anyone know which of these are compatible, if any, or is this something I should bring up at their respective pages?

I'm especially wondering about KEI, since GPP has a different KSC from stock.  It's not a big deal if I need to farm science manually around KSC, but it DOES get a bit tedious.

[x] Science! says it supports custom biomes, so I'm assuming it will work, but was just wondering.  I mainly play a science game, with a smidge of sandbox (for testing purposes) and have never started a career game.  So this particular mod is somewhat important to me.

I'm assuming Planet Wiki will need an add-on, similar to the OPM mod PW add-on.

Gravity Turn, while not completely necessary, is like KEI in that it removes some of the tedium of launches.  Right now, it's set up with values for Kerbin, Mun, Minmus, and Duna.  The latter three I realize are right out with GPP, but aside from the inclination change of KSC, I'm assuming that GT will be able to handle a launch from the new KSC.  As for the rest of the planets and moons in GPP, would it be better if I were to ask AndyMT to look into it?

Last question: Even if these mods aren't supported by GPP, or vice-versa, is there any harm in leaving them installed for possible future updates, or should I just remove them?

Thanks in advance for any advice.

I would just say try them all and see if they work,.  We don't have the time to check every mod compatibility unfortunately 

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1 hour ago, Galileo said:

I would just say try them all and see if they work,.  We don't have the time to check every mod compatibility unfortunately 

Thanks.  I wasn't asking if you would try them out - just if you knew enough about them to guess one way or another about whether they would work or not.

My install is pretty much complete, but I had some stuff to do, so haven't actually started it up yet.  I plan to do so in the next hour or so, and will report back at some time in the near future, so that anyone else with similar questions can get an answer one way or the other.

@OhioBob - Thanks for the info.  I guess that's one thing I won't need to check.

Edited by MaxxQ
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